Relationship between Philly and Gambino’s now

[Pogo The Clown]

No personal shots from me. Just pointing out that you refuse to look at any of the evidence presented. I, and others, have provided the statements of several informants over the years showing what these guys are involved with and what they were making, indictments showing what these guy were involved with, LE statements on what some of these operations were making, etc and you have rejected it all and instead chose to go with your own personal beliefs and assumptions. I'm done here.


Pogo

[TJ]

i have no beliefs or assumptions, and you havent pointed out the assumptions as i asked..you take what info you like from a guy like natales testimony, not anyone elses, i have no beliefs or assumption, my point only is these guys are no different than the rest of society when it comes to income, some are at top of food chain, some in middle, some at bottom..my only assumption here was that you jerked off to 302s, that i apologize too, but the rest i didnt state any fact or assumption, you stated natale testimony is fact, so you must believe gambino and bruno burn the saint for him, if so, then i guess im done as well

[Wiseguy]

To add to this here is Natale talking about the streat tax and video poker business during the 90s. Shows just how little money these guy's were bringing in. When taken all in it is clear that Philly is not taking in big money (the tens or hundreds of millions a year that was suggested earlier).

To be fair, I think TommyNoto said, "In total Philly must be running tens and even hundred million annual sports book across NJ, PA and DE."

If he meant how much money is being wagered with their sportsbooks, I would agree it would be in the tens of millions. Which is why I used the Borgata case, which handled $60 million in bets over 20 months, as an example. But it also shows that there's a big difference between money wagered and how much ends up as actual net profit. And when you divide so many ways with the people involved, including some of it going up the ladder, one sees that you're right about taking a realistic view of how much these guys are making.

[TJ]

True feds right 60.million for the sheep to say wow..what is the.met on it? Wiseguy do u have what they estimated it at? No clue my guess is 5 percent or so? No more than that..and yes, the share going up and how many ways isnt too much..but not sure it proves anything, one scheme, one crew of how many, i have no idea.im just saying thos one case.dont prove one way or the other..they could have a guy.in their pocket writing 100 mill in mortgages and paying them 1 pt on that..and a guy running a house flip crew and paying them 10 pts in that..again, hypothetical, IM NOT ASSUMING THEY do, my point is we don't know, and as in all walks of life some make a lot, some make a little, some make middle

[dack2001]

Pogo, Enlighten me on why you are feeling slighted. TJ hasn't refused to look at your evidence. He simply doesn't put much stock in it's value to extrapolate from it the earnings of the admin guys in Philly. I agree with him that using X testimony from guys like Previte and Natale from 2000 to say the Philly admin makes Y simply doesn't give you any kind of an accurate picture. Especially when that case and Uncle Joe's case and Joey's recent case only give us a snapshots of what's going on each of those guys involved.

[dack2001]

Though on one hand its documentary evidence surely you would agree that value is limited to say the least.

[Pogo The Clown]

Pogo, Enlighten me on why you are feeling slighted. TJ hasn't refused to look at your evidence. He simply doesn't put much stock in it's value to extrapolate from it the earnings of the admin guys in Philly. I agree with him that using X testimony from guys like Previte and Natale from 2000 to say the Philly admin makes Y simply doesn't give you any kind of an accurate picture. Especially when that case and Uncle Joe's case and Joey's recent case only give us a snapshots of what's going on each of those guys involved.

Maybe if each piece of evidence is taken in insolation but not when taken as a whole. All the member informants say the same thing and are in turn backed up by the indictments and tapes over the last 25 years. They all say and show the same thing. You also have, as a point of comparison, some of the NY informants and what they earned.


Honestly I don't even know why this even being debated. I don't know how anyone can look at the Stanfa case, the Merlino case, the Ligambi case and all the other cases since and come away with the conclusion that Philly is a big money operation dealing in hundreds of millions of dollars. They are not the Medellin Cartel and Joey Merlino is not Pablo Escobar.


Pogo

[bobbybats]

I would bet it doesn't make 12 million a year. As small as that family is that is still pretty good money at the top.

[TJ]

Pogo, please point out where I, or anyone said merlino or anyone made anything at all, find the fuckin post and repost it please...

[TJ]

My original post on the matter was in any street guy in general you can’t generalize, you are the one who decided to use theralph natales testimony as a measure of truth, maybe you have a portrait of the Bruno Gambino Natalie ceremony hanging in your living room

[Pogo The Clown]

Pogo, please point out where I, or anyone said merlino or anyone made anything at all, find the fuckin post and repost it please...

Have you even been reading this thread.


Jeremy's question

what is people's estimation that Boss, Underboss and consiglere make of let's say Philly, maybe NY if anyone wants too...

id say Merlino before court and all that alone probably mase.... 25g month?? to high?? to low???

My response

Joe Defede testified that he made 1.6 million during his run as Acting Boss of the Lucchese family. This was from late 1993-early 1998 so about 350 grand a year. A guy like Merlino today would of course be making a hell of a lot less.

TommyNotos response

My guess would be Merlin’s makes $500k range a year . In total Philly must be running tens and even hundred million annual sports book across NJ, PA and DE. That’s steady cash in guys hands to do all sorts of side biz / deals

[Pogo The Clown]

My original post on the matter was in any street guy in general you can’t generalize, you are the one who decided to use theralph natales testimony as a measure of truth, maybe you have a portrait of the Bruno Gambino Natalie ceremony hanging in your living room

Yeah forgot about what all the people involved have had to say, forget the tapes, forget the evidence and forget the Feds. Let's just ignore it all and go with your view. After all you have provided such a compelling argument

they could have a guy.in their pocket writing 100 mill in mortgages and paying them 1 pt on that..and a guy running a house flip crew and paying them 10 pts in that..again, hypothetical, IM NOT ASSUMING THEY do, my point is we don't know

And Joey Merlino could be the boss of the Illuminati and secretly runs the whole world. Again hypothetical. I'm not assuming he does. My point is we don't know.


Pogo

[dack2001]

C'mon, save the strawman, no one claimed Philly makes hundreds of millions a year or that Joey was like Pablo Escobar. I note your posts quoting Natale's testimony and Previte's testimony. I also note the testimony in Stanfa case about what came in from the shakes and Uncle Joe's trial about what they were taking in from video poker and the testimony from Joey's trial about just the skin cream generating.

I also note and credit exactly what TJ's point is. Trials give but a snapshot of each guys's perspective. Tons of shit gets left out of a trial in even a random drug dealers trial. What makes you think some bum like Natale or Previte is close completely in the know? Each wiseguy has his own income streams, businesses, shakes etc. I suspect that Joey has a ton of guys giving him money, here, there and everywhere. Guys are around him everywhere like moths to a flame. How much goes into the elbow? I have no idea but I'm guessing a lot different than the estimates you provided. Just guessing by the way he's living like there is no tomorrow there is a lot more coming in and going out than a half million per year.

[Pogo The Clown]

And that is where we differ. A lot of "I suspect" and "I'm guessing" in your arguement. I like to stick to the available facts and evidence.

What makes you think some bum like Natale or Previte is close completely in the know?

More in the know than anyone on this forum. Because unlike anyone in this thread, they were actually a part of the organization and actually knew and delt with the people being discussed. Their info carries further weight because it is backed up by what other members have had to say and what the Feds have reported.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

This argument is going nowhere.

If people don’t argue points logically and reasonably, then little progress will be made.

I’d suggest all parties save their time.