Marco D’Amico died

[Pete]

And Pete and Joey A are old as hell and basically have nothing to do with the life they count their millions and wonder which day they’ll die

I would completely agree with you from a common sense point of view. Those two guys would need whatever is left of the Outfit like they would need a hole in their heads. Besides, in the video of DiFronzo having lunching in 2009, the only guys there with him were deactivated Elmwood Park Guys. There was nobody else there. It all coincides with the statement from that F.B.I. guy Jeff Sallet who said "the Outfit is running on Fumes".

I’ve said in these forums before I lived in elmwood Park many years and would see Joey A all they time because he lives in river first and they border each other. He lives in a mansion and I haven’t seen him even at the Pancake house in many years. Same thing Pete difronzo while I didn’t live by him I know his family through John difronzo III. Pete lives in a house that puts Joey A to shame. These guys are ancient is it possible they still talk to outfit guys and give their opinion? Maybe but saying they are active is completely not true. I’ve also said for the last year I’ve lived in lake county and see solly d around you don’t have to look hard. He’s at his business all day then goes out a little at night. I’ve never seen him with anyone but his wife who is at least 30 years younger or his kids or grandkids. Yes maybe I’m wrong but he don’t seem like a mob boss.genuinely nice easy going guy. I heard his son solly jr was the icing on the cake and he’s almost completely out of the life now. Maybe I’m wrong but all the articles online Saying Dino Marino is his chauffeur etc I’ve never seen that. Dino lives by my son which is almost an hour away from where solly lives I’ve never seen them together. On the other hand in elm wood park I would seee Tony dote and Nick cataudella all the tine. You wouldn’t believe how people treat dote he’s like a king when he comes in the bar. Nice guy very respectful but people fall all over themselves when he parks his Escalade on the sidewalk at the bar. Anyways......

Pete, I live right across the border from elmwood in Chicago. After the loon, these guys all started meeting at the place off of Mannheim close to the cemetery. Not sure if they will after D’Amico died. Pete has the construction in Melrose that employs a lot of the guys. Pete gave my friends dad a job there after he got out of the joint and he also had a scrap metal place in the city. Guy is a millionaire like you said. I agree he would never get involved enough to go to jail. I never seen Dote out in elmwood park but use to see Carl Dote at Danny’s and at his restaurant in Des Plaines before it closed. Do you ever go to Jimmy I’s place in elmwood?

Solly D’s son died in a motorcycle ancient, right? I know he has successful businesses in mchenry county. Where in Lake County do you see him?

Sollys carpet cleaning business is in island lake if you google it you will find it maybe Roberts rd. His black Benz is parked out front all the time. Didn’t know jimmy I had a place in Elmwood what is it? I would see dote at Tinys bar which was connected to armands pizza. Nick cataudella you’d see getting pizza at Armands. Solly jr was a stockbroker who did time with his father on a financial crime. He was very successful and basically legit not an outfit guy but was manipulating stocks or something I don’t recall. He died a few years ago in that accident but apparently the accident was caused by an unknown heart problem he had

[Pete]

Also I don’t think Pete even goes to d&p anymore John difronzo III runs it

[Patrickgold]

And Pete and Joey A are old as hell and basically have nothing to do with the life they count their millions and wonder which day they’ll die

I would completely agree with you from a common sense point of view. Those two guys would need whatever is left of the Outfit like they would need a hole in their heads. Besides, in the video of DiFronzo having lunching in 2009, the only guys there with him were deactivated Elmwood Park Guys. There was nobody else there. It all coincides with the statement from that F.B.I. guy Jeff Sallet who said "the Outfit is running on Fumes".

I’ve said in these forums before I lived in elmwood Park many years and would see Joey A all they time because he lives in river first and they border each other. He lives in a mansion and I haven’t seen him even at the Pancake house in many years. Same thing Pete difronzo while I didn’t live by him I know his family through John difronzo III. Pete lives in a house that puts Joey A to shame. These guys are ancient is it possible they still talk to outfit guys and give their opinion? Maybe but saying they are active is completely not true. I’ve also said for the last year I’ve lived in lake county and see solly d around you don’t have to look hard. He’s at his business all day then goes out a little at night. I’ve never seen him with anyone but his wife who is at least 30 years younger or his kids or grandkids. Yes maybe I’m wrong but he don’t seem like a mob boss.genuinely nice easy going guy. I heard his son solly jr was the icing on the cake and he’s almost completely out of the life now. Maybe I’m wrong but all the articles online Saying Dino Marino is his chauffeur etc I’ve never seen that. Dino lives by my son which is almost an hour away from where solly lives I’ve never seen them together. On the other hand in elm wood park I would seee Tony dote and Nick cataudella all the tine. You wouldn’t believe how people treat dote he’s like a king when he comes in the bar. Nice guy very respectful but people fall all over themselves when he parks his Escalade on the sidewalk at the bar. Anyways......

Pete, I live right across the border from elmwood in Chicago. After the loon, these guys all started meeting at the place off of Mannheim close to the cemetery. Not sure if they will after D’Amico died. Pete has the construction in Melrose that employs a lot of the guys. Pete gave my friends dad a job there after he got out of the joint and he also had a scrap metal place in the city. Guy is a millionaire like you said. I agree he would never get involved enough to go to jail. I never seen Dote out in elmwood park but use to see Carl Dote at Danny’s and at his restaurant in Des Plaines before it closed. Do you ever go to Jimmy I’s place in elmwood?

Solly D’s son died in a motorcycle ancient, right? I know he has successful businesses in mchenry county. Where in Lake County do you see him?

Sollys carpet cleaning business is in island lake if you google it you will find it maybe Roberts rd. His black Benz is parked out front all the time. Didn’t know jimmy I had a place in Elmwood what is it? I would see dote at Tinys bar which was connected to armands pizza. Nick cataudella you’d see getting pizza at Armands. Solly jr was a stockbroker who did time with his father on a financial crime. He was very successful and basically legit not an outfit guy but was manipulating stocks or something I don’t recall. He died a few years ago in that accident but apparently the accident was caused by an unknown heart problem he had

Jimmy I’s place is in the circle. It’s a cafe. Talking about Jimmy I. The place on Grand and Racine that he has a piece of is supposedly still open. It was called the Chicago Dungeon but now It’s called Illusions or something like that but still has the same theme which is a dominatrix place. Tony Vaughn is still listed as the owner. I believe he is related to Jimmy I some how.

[Patrickgold]

Also I don’t think Pete even goes to d&p anymore John difronzo III runs it

That’s not surprising. They have been grooming him for a while. They Sent him to Dominican University to get his degree. Do you know anything about the other guy that says he is Peter Difronzo’s nephew? Lives in Des Plaines

[Antiliar]

Carlisi was arrested in January 1992 for the Rincon Indian reservation trial in San Diego, but don't see that he was kept in jail. He was kept in the Cook County jail in December 1992 and remained in jail until his death in 1997. But I was referring to his term as boss. I think he was official top boss until his death. DiFronzo was sentenced to 37 months in May 1993 and released in July 1994. Joe Andriacchi reportedly assumed the day-to-day boss role while DiFronzo was in prison, then after he got out put John Monteleone in as the day-to-day boss until his death in 2001. Al Tornabene was reportedly Monteleone's underboss. Anyways, Sarno and Magnifichi had to have gotten made sometime in the 1990s. It could have been the early 90s.

I thought you knew exactly agents mags was made antillar?

I never said that.

Oh sorry I thought you
Mentioned before you knew but you were saving it for your book. That must have been something else. My apologies antillar

No problem. I think he may have told Fosco after he was drinking, LOL. He didn't want to discuss it when I brought it up. I think it's possible that Sarno and Magnafichi were made at the same time or a couple years apart. Frank Calabrese mentioned him in a 1999 recording, so he was probably made before then. I also think that Nick Calabrese's description of the 1988 ceremony is incomplete. He was summarizing what Jimmy DiForti told him, but the 1983 one was personally experienced. We have to account for guys like Louis Marino, Jimmy Inendino, Chris Spina, Bobby Panozzo, and others being made too, so there had to be other ceremonies. We just lack info.

[Antiliar]

I've never seen "consigliere" used by an informant or any other source. The only time I have ever seen it used in contemporary FBI documents was to describe Accardo's position in the eighties. This was probably just to generalize his position in terms familiar to the FBI.

As I mentioned before, when I asked Mike about it he told me that the last consigliere was Gus Alex. In other words, an adviser and there was no official consigliere that he was aware of. I think Roemer tried to shoehorn the consigliere concept into Chicago.

So if it's true that Chicago never had an official consigliere, they question is why? Historically, the consigliere is elected to his position just like a boss, so a consigliere could undermine and potentially rival a boss. Instead, Chicago had (in my opinion) an overall boss that's like a CEO, a day-to-day boss that's like a president, an Outfit underboss, capos, crew underbosses, and made guys (called "soldiers" in other Families). Sometimes the daily boss could skip having an underboss. There were also people direct to the administration.

[Patrickgold]

I've never seen "consigliere" used by an informant or any other source. The only time I have ever seen it used in contemporary FBI documents was to describe Accardo's position in the eighties. This was probably just to generalize his position in terms familiar to the FBI.

As I mentioned before, when I asked Mike about it he told me that the last consigliere was Gus Alex. In other words, an adviser and there was no official consigliere that he was aware of. I think Roemer tried to shoehorn the consigliere concept into Chicago.

So if it's true that Chicago never had an official consigliere, they question is why? Historically, the consigliere is elected to his position just like a boss, so a consigliere could undermine and potentially rival a boss. Instead, Chicago had (in my opinion) an overall boss that's like a CEO, a day-to-day boss that's like a president, an Outfit underboss, capos, crew underbosses, and made guys (called "soldiers" in other Families). Sometimes the daily boss could skip having an underboss. There were also people direct to the administration.

Maybe they never made an official one because it was just automatically assumed that there would be advisors always available. You look at Torrio, when he stepped aside for Capone, he still advised. Then Ricca, Accardo, Lombardo, Difronzo.

[Villain]

As I ready explained before or in B's Chi thread, official or not, they had a spot reserved only for top fellas who needed to take a step back, but those same guys had the same power and received the same percentage like any other official top member, except for the top boss (like Antiliar said). Ricca was the first top boss until 72, and then he was succeeded by Accardo until 92...after that we have Carlisi and Aiuppa but these guys were in quite a trouble so they probably kept the advisor position, so I believe that by the late 90s DiFronzo was the real one who inherited the top spot and kept it for quite awhile, similar as his two predecessors meaning Ricca and Accardo...this means we have three top guys who controlled the Outfit from the 1930s/40s until the early 2010s...Ricca, Accardo and DiFronzo

[funkster]

And Pete and Joey A are old as hell and basically have nothing to do with the life they count their millions and wonder which day they’ll die

I would completely agree with you from a common sense point of view. Those two guys would need whatever is left of the Outfit like they would need a hole in their heads. Besides, in the video of DiFronzo having lunching in 2009, the only guys there with him were deactivated Elmwood Park Guys. There was nobody else there. It all coincides with the statement from that F.B.I. guy Jeff Sallet who said "the Outfit is running on Fumes".

I’ve said in these forums before I lived in elmwood Park many years and would see Joey A all they time because he lives in river first and they border each other. He lives in a mansion and I haven’t seen him even at the Pancake house in many years. Same thing Pete difronzo while I didn’t live by him I know his family through John difronzo III. Pete lives in a house that puts Joey A to shame. These guys are ancient is it possible they still talk to outfit guys and give their opinion? Maybe but saying they are active is completely not true. I’ve also said for the last year I’ve lived in lake county and see solly d around you don’t have to look hard. He’s at his business all day then goes out a little at night. I’ve never seen him with anyone but his wife who is at least 30 years younger or his kids or grandkids. Yes maybe I’m wrong but he don’t seem like a mob boss.genuinely nice easy going guy. I heard his son solly jr was the icing on the cake and he’s almost completely out of the life now. Maybe I’m wrong but all the articles online Saying Dino Marino is his chauffeur etc I’ve never seen that. Dino lives by my son which is almost an hour away from where solly lives I’ve never seen them together. On the other hand in elm wood park I would seee Tony dote and Nick cataudella all the tine. You wouldn’t believe how people treat dote he’s like a king when he comes in the bar. Nice guy very respectful but people fall all over themselves when he parks his Escalade on the sidewalk at the bar. Anyways......

Pete, I live right across the border from elmwood in Chicago. After the loon, these guys all started meeting at the place off of Mannheim close to the cemetery. Not sure if they will after D’Amico died. Pete has the construction in Melrose that employs a lot of the guys. Pete gave my friends dad a job there after he got out of the joint and he also had a scrap metal place in the city. Guy is a millionaire like you said. I agree he would never get involved enough to go to jail. I never seen Dote out in elmwood park but use to see Carl Dote at Danny’s and at his restaurant in Des Plaines before it closed. Do you ever go to Jimmy I’s place in elmwood?

Solly D’s son died in a motorcycle ancient, right? I know he has successful businesses in mchenry county. Where in Lake County do you see him?

Sollys carpet cleaning business is in island lake if you google it you will find it maybe Roberts rd. His black Benz is parked out front all the time. Didn’t know jimmy I had a place in Elmwood what is it? I would see dote at Tinys bar which was connected to armands pizza. Nick cataudella you’d see getting pizza at Armands. Solly jr was a stockbroker who did time with his father on a financial crime. He was very successful and basically legit not an outfit guy but was manipulating stocks or something I don’t recall. He died a few years ago in that accident but apparently the accident was caused by an unknown heart problem he had

Jimmy I’s place is in the circle. It’s a cafe. Talking about Jimmy I. The place on Grand and Racine that he has a piece of is supposedly still open. It was called the Chicago Dungeon but now It’s called Illusions or something like that but still has the same theme which is a dominatrix place. Tony Vaughn is still listed as the owner. I believe he is related to Jimmy I some how.

Are you referring to the place next to Vinne's Subs with the blacked out windows and cameras out front? There is a very similar place west on Grand close to Output (which used to be a bar co-owned by Cerone Jr).

[Pete]

I’ve said this many times but I don’t think the outfit ran in this military fashion some describe. It’s been my contention in the 70’s and 80’s accardo, aiuppa, and cerone operated like a team. They would talk things over and make decisions. I’ve never heard of aiuppa overruling cerone on something because he was boss and cerone was underboss. Haven’t heard much of accardo making policy without those two. What you guys refer to as top boss like accardo was to me a guy out of the day to day life but with tremendous influence. But you can’t say in my mind he controlled aiuppa like a puppet. Aiuppa settle sit downs as has been described my Nick Calabrese and ordered hits and everything else. To me he was the boss. I feel like If accardo has an official title the made guys would know. Nick Calabrese describes him as a former boss with great influence over the boss but never said oh he was the secret boss over aiuppa or says he was consigliere. Same I would say about difronzo. People called him the top boss but in reality he was happy to step aside and let someone else be boss. Through all the different bosses after difronzo I doubt he got involved unless someone stepped on his toes. It was very clear he wanted nothing to do with Cicero or Chinatown crews. Maybe its semantics but whoever runs the outfit is the boss. Jimmy marcello was never a “front boss” he was the boss. And difronzo was happy to stay away and let him do his thing. People don’t understand difronzo didn’t wanna be the boss didn’t want the exposure he wanted to raise his grandson since his son died and stay out of the can. He was worth millions and smart enough to say I’m happy not being involved with the outfit. Even mags talked about how difronzo thought he was a regular person and completely stayed away from outfit business. Yes he hung with his brothers and Marco but he was for all intents and purposes out and retired. People are free to believe what they want tho

[funkster]

I'd say that's a fair assessment.

[Snakes]

I’ve said this many times but I don’t think the outfit ran in this military fashion some describe. It’s been my contention in the 70’s and 80’s accardo, aiuppa, and cerone operated like a team. They would talk things over and make decisions. I’ve never heard of aiuppa overruling cerone on something because he was boss and cerone was underboss. Haven’t heard much of accardo making policy without those two. What you guys refer to as top boss like accardo was to me a guy out of the day to day life but with tremendous influence. But you can’t say in my mind he controlled aiuppa like a puppet. Aiuppa settle sit downs as has been described my Nick Calabrese and ordered hits and everything else. To me he was the boss. I feel like If accardo has an official title the made guys would know. Nick Calabrese describes him as a former boss with great influence over the boss but never said oh he was the secret boss over aiuppa or says he was consigliere. Same I would say about difronzo. People called him the top boss but in reality he was happy to step aside and let someone else be boss. Through all the different bosses after difronzo I doubt he got involved unless someone stepped on his toes. It was very clear he wanted nothing to do with Cicero or Chinatown crews. Maybe its semantics but whoever runs the outfit is the boss. Jimmy marcello was never a “front boss” he was the boss. And difronzo was happy to stay away and let him do his thing. People don’t understand difronzo didn’t wanna be the boss didn’t want the exposure he wanted to raise his grandson since his son died and stay out of the can. He was worth millions and smart enough to say I’m happy not being involved with the outfit. Even mags talked about how difronzo thought he was a regular person and completely stayed away from outfit business. Yes he hung with his brothers and Marco but he was for all intents and purposes out and retired. People are free to believe what they want tho

Aiuppa was trusted enough to go by himself to Commission meetings in New York, that should tell you everything you need to know right there.

[Pete]

I’ve said this many times but I don’t think the outfit ran in this military fashion some describe. It’s been my contention in the 70’s and 80’s accardo, aiuppa, and cerone operated like a team. They would talk things over and make decisions. I’ve never heard of aiuppa overruling cerone on something because he was boss and cerone was underboss. Haven’t heard much of accardo making policy without those two. What you guys refer to as top boss like accardo was to me a guy out of the day to day life but with tremendous influence. But you can’t say in my mind he controlled aiuppa like a puppet. Aiuppa settle sit downs as has been described my Nick Calabrese and ordered hits and everything else. To me he was the boss. I feel like If accardo has an official title the made guys would know. Nick Calabrese describes him as a former boss with great influence over the boss but never said oh he was the secret boss over aiuppa or says he was consigliere. Same I would say about difronzo. People called him the top boss but in reality he was happy to step aside and let someone else be boss. Through all the different bosses after difronzo I doubt he got involved unless someone stepped on his toes. It was very clear he wanted nothing to do with Cicero or Chinatown crews. Maybe its semantics but whoever runs the outfit is the boss. Jimmy marcello was never a “front boss” he was the boss. And difronzo was happy to stay away and let him do his thing. People don’t understand difronzo didn’t wanna be the boss didn’t want the exposure he wanted to raise his grandson since his son died and stay out of the can. He was worth millions and smart enough to say I’m happy not being involved with the outfit. Even mags talked about how difronzo thought he was a regular person and completely stayed away from outfit business. Yes he hung with his brothers and Marco but he was for all intents and purposes out and retired. People are free to believe what they want tho

Aiuppa was trusted enough to go by himself to Commission meetings in New York, that should tell you everything you need to know right there.

Do you have any info on those? I’ve heard them mentioned briefly but nothing much of substance

[Pete]

Also I wanna add yes the list of confirmed made members are almost all very old and while I still feel the outfit is on its last legs it has many younger guys like nick ferriola, John rainone, Anthony giannone, Andy rovito, carparelli, I could name many more. Are any of them made? Nothing says they are but we won’t really know unless indictments or someone flips. A lot of the younger guys are involved in credit card stuff and drugs as well as the usual staples. Doesn’t mean they aren’t dying but the made list can be a bit misleading

[Pete]

Also, are we saying Nicholas Cautadella isn't made and Jerry Scalise is?

Nick cataudella is almost certainly made. He had been identified as such for many years now. Scalise surprises me