Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Snakes]

This thread is locked. We had several open threads on the front page all talking about the same thing, so keep all Ontario(incl. Toronto)/Buffalo discussion in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4122&start=1120

[mobinfiltrator]

Hello Paul, your experience and expertise is greatly welcome....
If I may ask, What's the relationship between the Violis and the Bikers, and the Bikers and the Todaros?

In your opinion, seriously, Rizzutos... Are they Bonnanos?

The Rizzuto's are Bonnano's. That intel came from Jackie Garcia, yesterday because I didn't know for sure.

The bikers we're always tied in with the mob. I'd party with bikers and the mob would show up and vice versa. They were tight with the Musitano's then in 2007ish (I think) they fucked up a guy called Frank Misiti on the patio of a strip club. He was Pat Musitano's cousin and friend. (No one visited Pat more when he was locked up). That when they had their falling out. I know nothing of the relationship between Bikers and Todaro's.

[mobinfiltrator]

Mobinfitrator you say there is a possibility that Johnny Papalia was under the Rizzutos, possible Bonanno member then, not Buffalo??

Truthfully, Im starting to think perhaps the Todaro's are under the Bonnano's as well. I have intel reports and interviews that show Niagara Falls mobsters crossing the border at Buffalo and going to meets, yet they worked directly for Johnny, who we all know reported to Montreal.

[mobinfiltrator]

Maybe there are 30 made guys, maybe not, but you've got to wonder how many are actually active, probably half that number given the lack of cases.

That's a good point. I think the lack of cases is the biggest red flag of all. Until the Violi tapes it looked like it mirrors other defunct families. Some leftovers from the glory days who are still hustling, but not in an organized fashion. If there's Buffalo LCN revival it would set a precedent, although I continue to be skeptical since there's not much solid info on the matter. Take a look at Philly for example - there's a ton of info coming out about them, new cases on consistent basis and it just confirms how they are winding down as an organization, how there's not much action left in South Philly, how X wants to go legit, etc.

Just look at the ages of the confirmed members. Todaro is 76, the Luppnios 82 and 78, Albano 73, Bifulco 74, Panaro 75 and Sansanese 70s. Just look at the DOBs of the unredacted names on the 2006 chart. Even back in 2006 these guys were ancient with half the listed members in their 70s-90s.

Tadaro and his family have a lot of money power and influence in buffalo. I know it’s hard for some people to fathom but Tadaro has many political connections and most of his illegal operations take place in Canada. That’s why he made his underboss Violi. So the lack of indictments could be because of his lack of illegal activity in Buffalo. Also buffalo is not like nyc or philly. Tadaro has been quietly rebuilding this family and now the spotlight is starting to shine on him and he definitely has to be getting nervous that his organization is being brought to light. Also I find it very amusing how worked up some people get about this topic. Keep it coming it gives me entertainment while I’m at work.

Yeah Todaro is like a Don Corleone with all his judges and politicians in his pocket who protect his vast criminal empire. I guess La Nova is his Genco Olive Oil. Funny how all these mythical political connections didn't stop the Feds from recognizing and busting them in the 1960s-Early 2000s.


Pogo

When I'd sit and drink with Frankie and Rocky Papalia, they were both in their seventies. And they were both very active.

[mobinfiltrator]

All of that "evidence" has either been debunked or never held any water to begin with.


For example the 911/terrorism explanation (which has been used to explain away several defunct families already). Budget cuts would have affected all the OC squads across the country. Not just Buffalo. So why haven't we seen the NY, Chicago, Philly, Boston and NJ offices declare their respective families defunct? Why have they continued to bring cases almost 20 years since 9/11? More to the point why are the NY state, local LE and a former prosecutor also saying Buffalo is defunct? Are they all part of this grand conspiracy to declare Buffalo gone when it isn't?


As to what PM has said, with all due respect to him, he has not confirmed anything about current Buffalo activity. Just his own opinions and theories that keep changing.

Massive foundations in Buffalo.

they are still in play, but for higher end stuff, not street level stuff.

This is a possible working theory. Buffalo are not in charge of their own shit anymore and answer to others.

Im starting to think that maybe Buffalo are just collecting from Canada.

So which is it? Either way he, again all due respect, is not in better position to know about the current make up of Buffalo than the head of the FBI Buffalo office who has categorilcally said it is done.


Pogo

That's true, Pogo. I'm just throwing out working theories, which is what cops do until they can ascertain the truth beyond a reasonable doubt.

Living with them for almost two and knowing how wiseguys work, and the way they lead their lives, Buffalo didn't shut up shop. They're still active, and collecting from Canada. In one month, in 2007 (seperate gaming investigation) we estimate the Musitano family took over $3,000,000. Nobody walks away from that kind of coin, especially wiseguys. The vig alone for those who failed to pay for $50,000 a week.

[mobinfiltrator]

It was also revealed that Buffalo was in contact with mobsters in nyc and had to seek their approval for certain decisions in the family. Im not sayin Buffalo is on the level of the Gambinos but Buffalo def appears to be active.

This is a possible working theory. Buffalo are not in charge of their own shit anymore and answer to others.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

More questions:

Who’s really controlling the Todaro/Buffalo family? Are they controlled by the Bonanno family?

Do the Bonannos have made members in Ontario? The Violi bust details indicated they were making new members of the Bonannos in Canada. Violi was even at a Bonanno ceremony, which is odd because he’s in the Buffalo family.

Do the Gambinos factor into the equation in Ontario at all? In terms of connections or anything. They seem to have had high level meetings in Toronto but we don’t have a ton of info.

From Jack Garcia. Gambinos had nothing to do with Canada. It was all Bonnano’s.


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Garcia wasnt around the sicilian gambino's, and he's almost 20 years out of date, he's no authority on who is in charge in that family now.

Believe it or not, ex uc's talk to wiseguys after the UCO. I do.

[Pogo The Clown]

When I'd sit and drink with Frankie and Rocky Papalia, they were both in their seventies. And they were both very active.

Oh sure I wasn't saying old guys can't be active. Not by any means. I was just saying the really advanced ages show just how little to no effort Buffalo has made in the last several decades to replenish its ranks with new blood. As evidenced by their increasingly shrinking and aging membership. Which makes the notion of them somehow going on a massive recruiting binge in the last few years to get their membership back to over 30 members highly unlikely.


Contrast that with places like NY, Philly, NJ and NE who still have lots of young members/middle aged members in their ranks. Showing that they regularly replenish their ranks with new blood which has allowed them to keep their membership numbers relatively stable over the decades.

Living with them for almost two and knowing how wiseguys work, and the way they lead their lives, Buffalo didn't shut up shop. They're still active, and collecting from Canada. In one month, in 2007 (seperate gaming investigation) we estimate the Musitano family took over $3,000,000. Nobody walks away from that kind of coin, especially wiseguys. The vig alone for those who failed to pay for $50,000 a week.

Families fall into inactivity through attrition and LE pressure. There were once almost 30 families in the US and now we are down to a 1/3 of that. That is the trend. Sure there is money in Canada but how much of that activity is really from the Buffalo group as opposed to the indigenous Canadian OC groups like the Musitanos, Rizzutos, etc?


Pogo

[FriendofFamily]

I am going to PIN this for a while so we don't keep creating so many threads about essentially the SAME THING

Buffalo and Ontario goes in here

[Wiseguy]

Yeah, my narrative. Not what the FBI has said. Not what the cases show. My narrative.

Correct. Your narrative.

Glad you’re finally realizing

That's what is called "spin."

it was formed in buffalo that's why they call it 'buffalo family' although today it is mostly active in canada

You and others keep saying the family is "most active in Canada" today and, I'll ask again, what are you basing that on? Most of the identifiable members are in the U.S. Over the past 20 years, most of what activity there has been has been in the U.S. It's only because of some recent events that the Canadian faction of the Buffalo family is even being discussed.

Yall really are some lil catty girls lol.....

Vindicated in that what you guys percieved was some nonsense in my head I made up, wasnt at all.....

I honestly have no idea what you're referring to and you didn't answer my question.

Tadaro and his family have a lot of money power and influence in buffalo. I know it’s hard for some people to fathom but Tadaro has many political connections and most of his illegal operations take place in Canada. That’s why he made his underboss Violi. So the lack of indictments could be because of his lack of illegal activity in Buffalo. Also buffalo is not like nyc or philly. Tadaro has been quietly rebuilding this family and now the spotlight is starting to shine on him and he definitely has to be getting nervous that his organization is being brought to light. Also I find it very amusing how worked up some people get about this topic. Keep it coming it gives me entertainment while I’m at work.

Mmm hmm. More theory and guesswork. Or should I assume you're our latest inside source?

Since you're using the you guys agaib let me chime in. What makes you think we guys have no respect for LE? Because we are sceptic about the feds auto pilot robotic responses due to recent "evidence" that there is still some activity between Buffalo and Ontario? I would greatly appreciate it if a verified FBI agent comes here too to explain their pov. I'll show that agent the same kind of respect as we do to our Canadian Donnie Brasco.

The FBI doesn't need to "explain" anything. Their track record speaks for itself. As does the track record of people on the forums over the years who second guess the FBI or think they are more informed. And it's not so much a question about "some recent activity" as the conclusion some seem to have come to based on that activity. Despite what the FBI and other law enforcement has said. And despite the last 20 years.

Perfectly surmised. Bravo sir.

To repeat myself, again, if the Fed Buffalo office were to come out and state in light of new evidence there is still no functional Buffalo LCN operating family, I would be the first to accept it as fact. And again, repeating myself, their statement of 'no functional family remains' in Buffalo was before the emergence of the new to light 'evidence'.

So please stop playing the 'we guys dont give a fuck about/disregard/ignore/refuse to believe etc etc etc' LE views. It is not correct and tiresome.

In fact your absolute and almost cult like refusal to accept anything Paul Manning has to say, in additional to his contact, another Buffalo detective, would look to many, not myself of course, that it is you two who are ignoring LE due to, oh I dont know, adherance to a narrative, shall we say. But I wouldnt think that.

I see. So, even though the FBI has made their stance clear, each time there is some new activity involving members of a crime family, the FBI has to restate what they've already said for you to be satisfied? Is that it?

When there was a bookmaking bust in Kansas City back in 2010, that had some familiar mob names and involved at least one made guy, should the feds have issued a press release saying they still considered the Kansas City LCN defunct?

[Lupara]

I am going to PIN this for a while so we don't keep creating so many threads about essentially the SAME THING

Buffalo and Ontario goes in here

Would be great if you could merge the Toronto thread with this one too. Good discussion there and a pity it gets lost because it's locked.

[mobinfiltrator]

Not for public release, but this closed board forum.

Pat's in hospital today after a breakdown. So they book in him for facial reconstructive surgery whilst he's there. Meaning he was shot directly in the face. Ouch!

[Pogo The Clown]

Cut him some slack. He is trying to save face.


Pogo

[givememysocks]

Cut him some slack. He is trying to save face.


Pogo

[B.]

It is important to recognize that the FBI may have never identified all of the made members of the Buffalo family. Magaddino was recorded telling his Utica capodecina that, at its peak, his organization had 125 members. This is close to other estimates of the Buffalo family at their peak, including Valachi, who was close to the Buffalo group.

In the 1960s when the FBI had extensive identifications for other families (for example, they ID'd almost all of Philly), the FBI identified less than half of the estimated Buffalo membership.

I haven't come across any documents or information that indicates the FBI ever identified anywhere close to the full membership. Naturally the family's size has become diminished, but the FBI's information was historically incomplete and to ignore that is to weaken your argument for the sake of being right about something that can't be publicly proven at the present moment.

[Pogo The Clown]

That is a bit of a reach no? Back in the 1960s the FBI hadn't IDEd most of the membership of most of the NY families or Chicago either but by the 1990s they certainly had. Hard to believe that they wouldn't have had a complete picture of Buffalo's scope by the 1990s as well.


Pogo