THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Frank wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:52 pm The Dynamics of the order to hit Hoffa probably is as confusing as who was in charge of the hit, who planned the hit, who pulled the trigger, cleanup etc. It would be real hard to distinguish as to how it transpired. Obviously it seems a no brainier that more than one family did not want him back as Teamsters President. I have stated my opinion before that I believe it was probably approved by the Commission, seeing that Hoffa worked with most of the Families. But did the actual order originate at a non Commission level, as some theories have Bufalino ordering it. I suppose we will never know. I just don't see Bufalino ordering the hit without approval of the Commission..

Lupara wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:54 pm

nash143 wrote:Still not quite sure what I thought of it. Need to give it a second viewing. Like Two Piece, liked that they used the actual old 'Palma Boys' building (external, not sure of internal?) for the Tony Salerno scenes.

I know it's already been said, but the 'Deniro giving the grocer a beating' scene was painful to watch.

Agreed. Mixed feelings. This may very well be that movie that gets better with time.

nash143 wrote:Still not quite sure what I thought of it. Need to give it a second viewing. Like Two Piece, liked that they used the actual old 'Palma Boys' building (external, not sure of internal?) for the Tony Salerno scenes.

I know it's already been said, but the 'Deniro giving the grocer a beating' scene was painful to watch.

dack2001 wrote:I respect your opinion Rocco. I just finished the book "in Hoffa's Shadow". After reading the book, I believe that Chuckie O'Brian had nothing to do with Hoffa getting picked up. Vito Giacalone probably picked up Hoffa. After reading that book I believe that Hoffa would get in a car with Tony Or Vito Jack on that particular day. I also believe that Dan Moldea is one lousy researcher and an unreliable author who cares only for Dan Moldea.

Doesn't mean the Genovese didn't do the hit, but I'd bet that it was Detroit internally who got the order or made the decision to get rid of Hoffa and they handled it themselves. A bunch of Genovese hit men running around Detroit would have raised some major red flags, no?

Grouchy Sinatra wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:21 pm

mafiastudent wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:19 pm

Grouchy Sinatra wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:06 pm

mafiastudent wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:32 pm This says it all!

https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/go-ahead- ... -terrible/

What a stupid article.

I don't think I've heard anyone who liked the movie proclaim its the greatest film of all time, myself included. Typical polarizing theme for the limited attention span of the NY Post's readership.

the characters had no depth. period. end of story.

I'm talking about the article. That's the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life. Nobody's walking around calling this the greatest movie ever. Typical sleaze columnist that had to start off pieces with non existent strawmen.

baldo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:38 am

I didn’t miss anything (I’m well aware of the Colombo shooting). Simply saying the way that transitioned that one scene made it look like Colombo shooting might have been related to the jail fight (to people who don’t know the history).

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:18 am I saw it on opening night at a small theatre in the Boston area. Personally, it was a masterpiece. Also, Deniro definitely looked his age while administering a beating...but other than that, all actors did a great job and the set, soundtrack, storyline was all fantastic. Goodfellas, Casino, Donnie Brasco etc all had dramatized fiction. IMO, this was one of the best projects Scorsese has done.

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:10 am

TommyNoto wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:45 pm

dack2001 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:50 pm I have always had trouble putting much stock in Moldea, especially since he published his RFK book and tossed in that "confession" at the end and his Thane Caesar gatekeeping became public. Anyone who hangs with Gus Russo and lectures people about publishing the truth, even Bob DeNiro, is suspect in my book too.

All that said, Moscato's version is not impossible but I am deeply skeptical that Detroit would allow Tony Pro's crew to come in and do that high-profile of a hit and then ship the body back east. Or that Tony Pro would send his guys to Detroit to kill a high profile guy like Hoffa. Wasn't Hoffa "on record" with Detroit? It makes more sense given the politics of Cosa Nostra that Detroit got the contract because Hoffa was "with" Detroit and Tony Jack. They did the deed and burned him up or buried him as has always been suspected. I won't rule out that they got Big Frank Sheeranthough Russell Bufalino or somebody else to put Hoffa at ease but I'd bet they were the shooters and they disposed of him.

Moldea is very credible IMO and although there were possibly more than 1 shooter Caesar was almost certainly involved in RFK assassination . Dave Morales ( notorious CIA wet work specialist ) also confessed to killing RFK and JFK.

To me Sally , Moscato is very likely what happened. I’m from Hudson county NJ and lived in JC, know that dump and to think I likely stepped over Hoffa dead body lol , while smoking a J

I have a bridge to sell you if you actually believe that one of the highest profile hits in American History was transported through Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and into NJ for burial.

Rocco wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:09 am

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:07 am

Rocco wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:02 pm Moscato's is probably the most credible if you guy by what the FBI says. And also makes sense. Tony Pro was the number 1 suspect in Hoffa's death. When Hoffa was killed everyone with Teamster knew that Tony Pro had him killed. Sally Bugs has been the prime suspect according to the FBI for decades. I am not sure this guy knows about that body. But I have always believed that Tony Pro's crew killed Hoffa while Tony Pro was at his FL home.

Tony Pro was in Detroit on that day

you sure? Ive read that he went to FL so he had an alibi. Just like when they killed the other Union guy yrs prior. And it was the older murder that put him away for life I believe. Anyone know who the shooter was in the Sally Bugs hit? NY Genovese Crew or NJ ?

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:57 am

JCB1977 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:36 am

Fughedaboutit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:20 pm I like how Sheeran or any theory can be exactly debunked when it is an unsolved murder where all the key players that did know anything are long gone.

If nobody knows who did it or the details, how can you rule anyone out?

Agreed. Dan Moldea who is the leading expert in the Hoffa investigation by far said this:

"I believe that Sheeran lured Hoffa into the car that took the controversial union leader to his death, but I also believe the actual hit man was New Jersey mobster Salvatore “Sally Bugs” Briguglio, who was murdered in March 1978."

While Frank was a drunk and a liar (which all criminals are liars), he was as close to Jimmy Hoffa as anybody. Jimmy's Hoffa's children said this:

The FBI admits that Frank was "known to be in Detroit area at the time of JRH disappearance, and considered to be a close friend of JRH," as the HOFFEX memo states.

Hoffa's son, current Teamsters President James P. Hoffa, told me in September 2001 that his father would have gotten into the car with Frank. He said that his father would not have taken that ride with some of the other FBI suspects whom I mentioned.

Not only did James P. Hoffa confirm that his father would have driven off with Frank, but his sister, Hoffa's daughter, Barbara Crancer, wrote Frank a poignant letter begging him to come clean about their father's fate.

In the one-page heartfelt note, handwritten to Frank on March 5, 1995, she wrote:

"It is my personal belief that there are many people who called themselves loyal friends who know what happened to James R. Hoffa, who did it and why. The fact that not one of them has ever told his family -- even under a vow of secrecy, is painful to me..."

She then underlined: "I believe you are one of those people."

Crancer confirmed to me that she wrote that letter.

***Since everybody's theory is just that, a theory...Sheeran was the first person who was listed as a top suspect in the Hoffa disappearance that spoke about it. Do I believe every word he said? Absolutely not. But I do believe some of his deathbed confession has some truth to it...much closer than anybody else has ever said.

Great post JCB.

Have you seen the movie?