In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

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chin_gigante
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by chin_gigante »

To me, the Colombo/ Gallo section was designed to foreshadow Hoffa's downfall, hence why it immediately followed the Tony Pro prison fight. The connection was very deliberate, the sequences blending together with Sleep Walk beginning to play as the fight was broken up and then bleeding into the slow motion shooting of Colombo (Gallo was also specifically referenced by Salerno when he warned Hoffa to retire after his release from prison).

That's the meaning I got out of it at least. Gallo, in the film's narrative, not necessarily in real life, got too close to the sun and thought he was bigger than everybody, he thought he was a boss and an equal to Bufalino; his hubris was his downfall, just as Hoffa paved the way for his own destruction, and Sheeran was the thread connecting those points and signalling the film's change in trajectory as things inevitably went bad for Hoffa.

Not to mention, I think the filmmaking present in that whole sequence was spectacular. The hypnotic quality of the music, combined with the stunning slow motion, really creates that eerie and haunting feel as we're watching Gallo, and by extension Hoffa, sleep walk (pun intended) to their demise as they believe they're untouchable. The camera omnisciently glides through Umberto's to the table before Gallo arrives, symbolising the inevitable doom that awaits him and sort of hints that the same fate awaits Hoffa (as if the camera move was a sort of test run designed to tell the audience, 'be prepared for what happens to Gallo to happen to Hoffa too').

As I said in my review, I think Sebastian Maniscalco is terrific in his limited screen time as Gallo, evoking that volatile edge so wonderfully, especially in his eyes, as he talks with Sheeran in the Copa. The all black suit and the glasses I think were effective visual shorthand for the type of celebrity gangster Gallo encapsulated. The bending of time to introduce him with his appearance before the senate committee was a very economic choice, giving Scorsese the chance to illustrate Gallo's hubris in front of Bobby Kennedy and the way the camera sweeps in to his face from across the room as if attracted to him, conveys the significance he wields in a very cinematic way.

The murder itself was also very in-keeping thematically with the matter of fact, brutally quick nature of violence across the rest of the film, and it was also a creative way of showing how much time has passed, introducing Anna Paquin as older Peggy and adding more weight to her silence when they look at each other as news of the Gallo murder is played on the TV.

Did Sheeran kill Gallo? No. But that doesnt matter at all to me when watching The Irishman. I think the sequence was spectacularly made and fits a very specific and meaningful purpose in the film's greater narrative.
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by Ivan »

I would have liked the movie a bit better if they had kind of hinted that Sheeran wasn't the most reliable narrator.

You know, have a "This is real... or is it?" type deal going.
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

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Check this video out:

https://youtu.be/XK9euXpTs5A
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by Grouchy Sinatra »

baldo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:59 pm
To clarify, after Pro and Hoffa had a fight in jail, Frank narrates:

Right then, you knew
it was all gonna fall apart.
I can't believe
that crazy bastard
thought he could do that
right there at Columbus Circle

To the average viewer not as well versed as us might have taken it as Colombo being shot because of the jailhouse fight between Pro and Hoffa. That's why I had to explain to my wife 10 times that it was either Carlo Gambino or Joey Gallo who killed him until she finally said "wtf does that have to do with the prison fight" and I was like "oh, nothing"....LOL
The Colombo shooting is used by Scorsese as a device to set up the Gallo hit. After the shooting we see Buffalino pissed off about it. Then we see Gallo at his birthday party disrespecting Buffalino for wearing the Italian League pen. It really was all there, laid out in plain sight. I can understand if you and your wife missed it. It's a long movie. The only thing that was odd is that they never actually mention Colombo by name, but they didn't really need to. We see the shooting, we see Buffalino's reaction, then we see Gallo escalate matters.
Glick told author Nicholas Pileggi that he expected to meet a banker-type individual, but instead, he found Alvin Baron to be a gruff, tough-talking cigar-chomping Teamster who greeted him with, “What the fuck do you want?”
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by Grouchy Sinatra »

There really aren't a lot of actors these days that can play good mobsters. Aside from Pesci's Buffalino and Keitel's Bruno, most of the mob characters were just meh. Gallo, Salerno, Tony Pro. The guy who played Fratianno at the end looked like he was 16. The real Fratianno looked like he was born 50. For all the flack the old actors get in this, they carried the movie. I think Pesci, DeNiro and these guys are the last of the Mohicans among actors who know how to play this role.
Glick told author Nicholas Pileggi that he expected to meet a banker-type individual, but instead, he found Alvin Baron to be a gruff, tough-talking cigar-chomping Teamster who greeted him with, “What the fuck do you want?”
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Re: New book claims FBI knows Jimmy Hoffa's killer, but is keeping it secret

Post by bert »

If Scorsese made The Iceman instead of this book, and cast the same cast, there are people would believe it, and call it a great movie. Think about that.
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by Grouchy Sinatra »

mafiastudent wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:32 pm This says it all!

https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/go-ahead- ... -terrible/
What a stupid article.

I don't think I've heard anyone who liked the movie proclaim its the greatest film of all time, myself included. Typical polarizing theme for the limited attention span of the NY Post's readership.
Glick told author Nicholas Pileggi that he expected to meet a banker-type individual, but instead, he found Alvin Baron to be a gruff, tough-talking cigar-chomping Teamster who greeted him with, “What the fuck do you want?”
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by bert »

mafiastudent wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:32 pm This says it all!

https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/go-ahead- ... -terrible/
She's a great writer, I have followed her for years, and in that story she nails it.
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by Grouchy Sinatra »

Case in point...
Glick told author Nicholas Pileggi that he expected to meet a banker-type individual, but instead, he found Alvin Baron to be a gruff, tough-talking cigar-chomping Teamster who greeted him with, “What the fuck do you want?”
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by mafiastudent »

Grouchy Sinatra wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:06 pm
mafiastudent wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:32 pm This says it all!

https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/go-ahead- ... -terrible/
What a stupid article.

I don't think I've heard anyone who liked the movie proclaim its the greatest film of all time, myself included. Typical polarizing theme for the limited attention span of the NY Post's readership.
the characters had no depth. period. end of story.
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by Grouchy Sinatra »

mafiastudent wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:19 pm
Grouchy Sinatra wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:06 pm
mafiastudent wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:32 pm This says it all!

https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/go-ahead- ... -terrible/
What a stupid article.

I don't think I've heard anyone who liked the movie proclaim its the greatest film of all time, myself included. Typical polarizing theme for the limited attention span of the NY Post's readership.
the characters had no depth. period. end of story.
I'm talking about the article. That's the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life. Nobody's walking around calling this the greatest movie ever. Typical sleaze columnist that had to start off pieces with non existent strawmen.
Glick told author Nicholas Pileggi that he expected to meet a banker-type individual, but instead, he found Alvin Baron to be a gruff, tough-talking cigar-chomping Teamster who greeted him with, “What the fuck do you want?”
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by baldo »

Grouchy Sinatra wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:16 pm
baldo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:59 pm
To clarify, after Pro and Hoffa had a fight in jail, Frank narrates:

Right then, you knew
it was all gonna fall apart.
I can't believe
that crazy bastard
thought he could do that
right there at Columbus Circle

To the average viewer not as well versed as us might have taken it as Colombo being shot because of the jailhouse fight between Pro and Hoffa. That's why I had to explain to my wife 10 times that it was either Carlo Gambino or Joey Gallo who killed him until she finally said "wtf does that have to do with the prison fight" and I was like "oh, nothing"....LOL
The Colombo shooting is used by Scorsese as a device to set up the Gallo hit. After the shooting we see Buffalino pissed off about it. Then we see Gallo at his birthday party disrespecting Buffalino for wearing the Italian League pen. It really was all there, laid out in plain sight. I can understand if you and your wife missed it. It's a long movie. The only thing that was odd is that they never actually mention Colombo by name, but they didn't really need to. We see the shooting, we see Buffalino's reaction, then we see Gallo escalate matters.
I didn’t miss anything (I’m well aware of the Colombo shooting). Simply saying the way that transitioned that one scene made it look like Colombo shooting might have been related to the jail fight (to people who don’t know the history).
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

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La Cosa Forrest Gump.
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Re: In Hoffa's Shadow author takes apart "Irishman" myth

Post by JCB1977 »

Fughedaboutit wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:20 pm I like how Sheeran or any theory can be exactly debunked when it is an unsolved murder where all the key players that did know anything are long gone.

If nobody knows who did it or the details, how can you rule anyone out?
Agreed. Dan Moldea who is the leading expert in the Hoffa investigation by far said this:

"I believe that Sheeran lured Hoffa into the car that took the controversial union leader to his death, but I also believe the actual hit man was New Jersey mobster Salvatore “Sally Bugs” Briguglio, who was murdered in March 1978."

While Frank was a drunk and a liar (which all criminals are liars), he was as close to Jimmy Hoffa as anybody. Jimmy's Hoffa's children said this:

The FBI admits that Frank was "known to be in Detroit area at the time of JRH disappearance, and considered to be a close friend of JRH," as the HOFFEX memo states.

Hoffa's son, current Teamsters President James P. Hoffa, told me in September 2001 that his father would have gotten into the car with Frank. He said that his father would not have taken that ride with some of the other FBI suspects whom I mentioned.

Not only did James P. Hoffa confirm that his father would have driven off with Frank, but his sister, Hoffa's daughter, Barbara Crancer, wrote Frank a poignant letter begging him to come clean about their father's fate.

In the one-page heartfelt note, handwritten to Frank on March 5, 1995, she wrote:

"It is my personal belief that there are many people who called themselves loyal friends who know what happened to James R. Hoffa, who did it and why. The fact that not one of them has ever told his family -- even under a vow of secrecy, is painful to me..."

She then underlined: "I believe you are one of those people."

Crancer confirmed to me that she wrote that letter.

***Since everybody's theory is just that, a theory...Sheeran was the first person who was listed as a top suspect in the Hoffa disappearance that spoke about it. Do I believe every word he said? Absolutely not. But I do believe some of his deathbed confession has some truth to it...much closer than anybody else has ever said.
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