most influential in each family(current)

[Flushing]

Actually, a question about a Genovese guy...

Victor Colletti.... how much influence?

Apparently he has juice as Capeci noted that he came out on top of a sit down with Massino over cab company profits, back in the early 00's of course.

Is he with the Parkside/romanello crew? The Don Pepe's crew? The guy is a mystery. He wasn't involved in that disaster in 2014 with Bonelli, Delligatti, Debello, Loiue Sunoco and the Crips. That was a train wreck.

[Wiseguy]

Genovese-Bellomo or Cirrilo
Lucchese- would of been Crea but he is done now so I’d maybe say the Pernas?
Gambino- Cefalu
Bonanno- maybe the hardest one Vinny TV or Spiritro Sr.?
Columbos- Allie Boy, Teddy, or Andy Russo

The Russian Mob is more influential than LCN today.

Worldwide they certainly are...But the US maybe, maybe not? We haven’t seen many indictments with large Vor or anything recently so how do we know? The Jewish Russian gangsters dont always work with Vor. However a lot of Vor are Jewish Russian American Gangsters

The Russians are a conglomerate of different smaller groups that work for individual or small groups of Vor and seem to operate on a horizontal structure oppose to a vertical military heirarchy aside from reporting to the Vors. The Vors are the russian mafia but everything I’ve seen is that a Vor controls mostly their own gang and is on a commission based status with other Vors and terrorities.

Does this benefit them in the long in terms of prosecution, probably but I also think it makes them possibly less organized as whole.

Russian gangsters were once feared as the next criminal superpower. But their looser structure, which helps them avoid detection by law enforcement, has also kept them from growing into an organization able to recruit the number of members needed to challenge the mafia.

The Russian networks tend to come together briefly for particular criminal plots and then disband, according to Michael Vecchione, who heads the rackets division at the Brooklyn district attorney's office.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424 ... 2318489246

[Peppermint]

Genovese-Bellomo or Cirrilo
Lucchese- would of been Crea but he is done now so I’d maybe say the Pernas?
Gambino- Cefalu
Bonanno- maybe the hardest one Vinny TV or Spiritro Sr.?
Columbos- Allie Boy, Teddy, or Andy Russo

The Russian Mob is more influential than LCN today.

Worldwide they certainly are...But the US maybe, maybe not? We haven’t seen many indictments with large Vor or anything recently so how do we know? The Jewish Russian gangsters dont always work with Vor. However a lot of Vor are Jewish Russian American Gangsters

The Russians are a conglomerate of different smaller groups that work for individual or small groups of Vor and seem to operate on a horizontal structure oppose to a vertical military heirarchy aside from reporting to the Vors. The Vors are the russian mafia but everything I’ve seen is that a Vor controls mostly their own gang and is on a commission based status with other Vors and terrorities.

Does this benefit them in the long in terms of prosecution, probably but I also think it makes them possibly less organized as whole.

Russian gangsters were once feared as the next criminal superpower. But their looser structure, which helps them avoid detection by law enforcement, has also kept them from growing into an organization able to recruit the number of members needed to challenge the mafia.

The Russian networks tend to come together briefly for particular criminal plots and then disband, according to Michael Vecchione, who heads the rackets division at the Brooklyn district attorney's office.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424 ... 2318489246

That may be true in regards to their presence in America. But on the world stage, the Russian Mafia is hands down the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world. What other criminal organization successfully infiltrated a nation’s entire banking system, their intelligence community, and just about every branch of their government? The various Bratva’s that operate primarily in Russia, in particular the Solntsevskaya Bratva, are in control of the Russian Government, they have essentially become the Russian Government and Putin has always been suspected of having bratva ties. Making him their most powerful and influential member, and he’s not even the boss, Sergei Mikhailov is.

They are a criminal organization that basically wields the world’s largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

I could also make the argument that China’s Communist Party is the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world, and Xi Jinping is the most powerful and influential member. But that’s a grey area, and I’ll spare this thread of further derailment

[Amershire_Ed]

It’s almost hard to compare what the Russians have to any other organized crime syndicate because the Russian mob is essentially indistinguishable from the Russian government. It’s the same businessman and oligarchs.

That’s why I actually think the ‘Ndrangheta are more “impressive” because the government of their home country is actively trying to destroy them. They’ve become Europe’s top cocaine traffickers and a preeminent money laundering source for criminal networks all over the globe. The Russians, the Chinese, the Indians.....they all use the ‘Ndrangheta to launder their money.

[SonnyBlackstein]

That may be true in regards to their presence in America. But on the world stage, the Russian Mafia is hands down the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world. What other criminal organization successfully infiltrated a nation’s entire banking system, their intelligence community, and just about every branch of their government? The various Bratva’s that operate primarily in Russia, in particular the Solntsevskaya Bratva, are in control of the Russian Government, they have essentially become the Russian Government and Putin has always been suspected of having bratva ties. Making him their most powerful and influential member, and he’s not even the boss, Sergei Mikhailov is.

They are a criminal organization that basically wields the world’s largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

You read too many science fiction novels.

I could also make the argument that China’s Communist Party is the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world, and Xi Jinping is the most powerful and influential member. But that’s a grey area, and I’ll spare this thread of further derailment

We appreciate it.

[scagghiuni]

russian government is not the same of the bratva, i think putin just used some gangster to consolidate his power and after he got rid of them, there are not even free elections and he no longer needs the mob, to kill someone he uses the secret services directly, he's a dictator

[Peppermint]

russian government is not the same of the bratva, i think putin just used some gangster to consolidate his power and after he got rid of them, there are not even free elections and he no longer needs the mob, to kill someone he uses the secret services directly, he's a dictator

Maybe once upon a time they were separate entities, but they sure as shit been consolidated into the government likely around Putin’s second time holding the Presidency. Remember, Putin during his first time in office was entirely different from the Putin entering his second round in office after the power swap with former Prime Minister Medvedev. That is likely when the two became one in the same.

Wikileaks confirmed through a leaked cable that the Russian FSB (KGB domestic successor, which Putin at one time was a Colonel) acts as the Solntsevskaya Bratva’s umbrella shielding their operations. The FSB and it’s foreign intelligence counter part SVR RF, both answer directly to Putin’s authority, true, and it’s the same FSB that protects the Bratva in question. Coincidence? I think not.

That may be true in regards to their presence in America. But on the world stage, the Russian Mafia is hands down the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world. What other criminal organization successfully infiltrated a nation’s entire banking system, their intelligence community, and just about every branch of their government? The various Bratva’s that operate primarily in Russia, in particular the Solntsevskaya Bratva, are in control of the Russian Government, they have essentially become the Russian Government and Putin has always been suspected of having bratva ties. Making him their most powerful and influential member, and he’s not even the boss, Sergei Mikhailov is.

They are a criminal organization that basically wields the world’s largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

You read too many science fiction novels.

With that said, Sonny, it’s not science fiction. Besides, there is nothing scientific about any of this. At most it would be historical fiction, get it together!!!

Obviously they don’t literally “control the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons” I was saying that as a figure of speech to emphasize how influential and powerful the Solntsevskaya Bratva have realistically become, considering they not only managed to get the Oligarch’s in their pockets through their infiltration of the banking sectors, but the fact that they have corrupted Russian politics and made their way into every branch of the Russian government. But don’t ask me, ask Julian Assange who’s organization leaked the classified cables that indicate all of this I’m telling you.

Don’t let your grudge against me make you ignorant on the subject.

[JeremyTheJew]

Most influential in each family:

The boss.

Peter Gotti

[Wiseguy]

That may be true in regards to their presence in America. But on the world stage, the Russian Mafia is hands down the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world. What other criminal organization successfully infiltrated a nation’s entire banking system, their intelligence community, and just about every branch of their government? The various Bratva’s that operate primarily in Russia, in particular the Solntsevskaya Bratva, are in control of the Russian Government, they have essentially become the Russian Government and Putin has always been suspected of having bratva ties. Making him their most powerful and influential member, and he’s not even the boss, Sergei Mikhailov is.

They are a criminal organization that basically wields the world’s largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

I could also make the argument that China’s Communist Party is the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world, and Xi Jinping is the most powerful and influential member. But that’s a grey area, and I’ll spare this thread of further derailment

It’s almost hard to compare what the Russians have to any other organized crime syndicate because the Russian mob is essentially indistinguishable from the Russian government. It’s the same businessman and oligarchs.

Personally, I think the above is where a lot of people get Russian organized crime wrong and it leads to these almost mythical level claims about it. You inevitably hear all sorts of things about oligarchs, the Russian state being indistinguishable from the organized crime groups, etc. To a large degree, I think that's a lot of hogwash. Putin is an old Soviet statist who has no interest in a bunch of Bratva/Vor gangsters infiltrating his government. Look at the difference between the underworld in Russia during the 1990s, when it had a lot of violence and the gangsters running wild, and over the past 20 years since Putin took over. There may be government officials, weathy businessmen, and gangsters who interact and do business, favors, etc. but where don't you see that? Here in the U.S. should we have categorized the guys at Enron or Bear Sterns as organized crime too? For whatever reason, when it comes to analyzing organized crime in different countries, people seem to apply different criteria or standards to Russia.

[Peppermint]

That may be true in regards to their presence in America. But on the world stage, the Russian Mafia is hands down the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world. What other criminal organization successfully infiltrated a nation’s entire banking system, their intelligence community, and just about every branch of their government? The various Bratva’s that operate primarily in Russia, in particular the Solntsevskaya Bratva, are in control of the Russian Government, they have essentially become the Russian Government and Putin has always been suspected of having bratva ties. Making him their most powerful and influential member, and he’s not even the boss, Sergei Mikhailov is.

They are a criminal organization that basically wields the world’s largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

I could also make the argument that China’s Communist Party is the most powerful and influential organized crime group in the world, and Xi Jinping is the most powerful and influential member. But that’s a grey area, and I’ll spare this thread of further derailment

It’s almost hard to compare what the Russians have to any other organized crime syndicate because the Russian mob is essentially indistinguishable from the Russian government. It’s the same businessman and oligarchs.

Personally, I think the above is where a lot of people get Russian organized crime wrong and it leads to these almost mythical level claims about it. You inevitably hear all sorts of things about oligarchs, the Russian state being indistinguishable from the organized crime groups, etc. To a large degree, I think that's a lot of hogwash. Putin is an old Soviet statist who has no interest in a bunch of Bratva/Vor gangsters infiltrating his government. Look at the difference between the underworld in Russia during the 1990s, when it had a lot of violence and the gangsters running wild, and over the past 20 years since Putin took over. There may be government officials, weathy businessmen, and gangsters who interact and do business, favors, etc. but where don't you see that? Here in the U.S. should we have categorized the guys at Enron or Bear Sterns as organized crime too? For whatever reason, when it comes to analyzing organized crime in different countries, people seem to apply different criteria or standards to Russia.

am basing their grip within the government upon classified cables that were leaked by Wikileaks. If Putin isn’t involved in some sort, then why is he letting an agency that has to answer to him directly acting as an umbrella for the Solntsevskaya Bratva’s activities? An agency which it’s predecessor Putin was a Colonel of back in the day. If you ask me, that is too much of a coincidence to just be merely a coincidence. But also, the involvement of the Solntsevskaya Bratva in the Russian banking system, which they specifically began to focus on that way they could become closer to the Oligarchs and further consolidate their influence over the Russian government. If Putin wasn’t playing a hand in any of this, there is no way he would allow his domestic agency to continue shielding them. Also consider this, a lot of the bratva guys are old communists too. They helped fund the Bolshevik, with various stolen printing presses for propaganda, bank robberies, and pirate raids on the Black Sea. They were quite literally the original thieves in law.

I feel like Russia is held to a different standard because Russian criminals operate on different standards than other organizations and criminals of other nationalities.

I wouldn’t consider that a misconception, especially since it’s information that was leaked by a credible whistleblower. That has been correct time after time again, in it’s exposures of plenty of other dirty doings of governments and politicians of all countries across the board.

[Extortion]

Genovese-Bellomo or Cirrilo
Lucchese- would of been Crea but he is done now so I’d maybe say the Pernas?
Gambino- Cefalu
Bonanno- maybe the hardest one Vinny TV or Spiritro Sr.?
Columbos- Allie Boy, Teddy, or Andy Russo

The Russian Mob is more influential than LCN today.

Worldwide they certainly are...But the US maybe, maybe not? We haven’t seen many indictments with large Vor or anything recently so how do we know? The Jewish Russian gangsters dont always work with Vor. However a lot of Vor are Jewish Russian American Gangsters

The Russians are a conglomerate of different smaller groups that work for individual or small groups of Vor and seem to operate on a horizontal structure oppose to a vertical military heirarchy aside from reporting to the Vors. The Vors are the russian mafia but everything I’ve seen is that a Vor controls mostly their own gang and is on a commission based status with other Vors and terrorities.

Does this benefit them in the long in terms of prosecution, probably but I also think it makes them possibly less organized as whole.

Russian gangsters were once feared as the next criminal superpower. But their looser structure, which helps them avoid detection by law enforcement, has also kept them from growing into an organization able to recruit the number of members needed to challenge the mafia.

The Russian networks tend to come together briefly for particular criminal plots and then disband, according to Michael Vecchione, who heads the rackets division at the Brooklyn district attorney's office.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424 ... 2318489246

Exactly.

[Extortion]

Genovese-Bellomo or Cirrilo
Lucchese- would of been Crea but he is done now so I’d maybe say the Pernas?
Gambino- Cefalu
Bonanno- maybe the hardest one Vinny TV or Spiritro Sr.?
Columbos- Allie Boy, Teddy, or Andy Russo

The Russian Mob is more influential than LCN today.

Worldwide they certainly are...But the US maybe, maybe not? We haven’t seen many indictments with large Vor or anything recently so how do we know? The Jewish Russian gangsters dont always work with Vor. However a lot of Vor are Jewish Russian American Gangsters

The Russians are a conglomerate of different smaller groups that work for individual or small groups of Vor and seem to operate on a horizontal structure oppose to a vertical military heirarchy aside from reporting to the Vors. The Vors are the russian mafia but everything I’ve seen is that a Vor controls mostly their own gang and is on a commission based status with other Vors and terrorities.

Does this benefit them in the long in terms of prosecution, probably but I also think it makes them possibly less organized as whole.

More influential worldwide then the ndrangheta? Idk that’s debatable

No I wasnt insinuating they were. I was talking about the russians as a whole as they have bases in bulgaria, france etc as the american mafia likely does not. Ndrangheta are one of the top criminal organizations in the world.

[Wiseguy]

The Russian system is certainly corrupt, always has been. Maybe it's more blatant there, relatively speaking than some other countries, but I still don't think the double standard is warranted.

In the report, "Challenging the Russian Mafia Mystique," it mentions how "three tiers of organized crime developed in the Soviet Union.The first tier was high-level government and party bureaucrats; the second was shadow economy operators who produced goods off the books; and the third was professional criminals, including the vory v zakone (thieves in law)."

You see these same tiers in many countries but, at least when it comes to organized crime discussion, those tiers are only lumped together as one in Russia.

[gohnjotti]

Saying the Russian mob “basically” controls the worlds largest arsenal of nuclear weapons is laughable and is part of the problem of over-hyping this mysterious new criminal force simply because we don’t know any better.

I’m reading Red Mafiya right now, excellent book, really puts things into perspective. The book is very pro-Russian, as in, it really glorifies the reach and influence of the Russian mob. But at the end of the day, these Russian mobsters are very independent to one another. There is no hierarchical structure like the LCN. No lines of succession, no formal “tribute” process, no precedent for inducting new members on American soil (that I have come across thus far in the book).
So to say the Russian mob - a mysterious and vague term lumping together thousands of different ethnic criminals and groups - controls the worlds largest nuclear arsenal is false, even if that argument is relying on the fact that the Russian mob controls the Russian government. It’s such an incredible stretch that really distorts the facts, IMO. It implies that a collective entity of criminals - “the Russian mob” - can pull out a nuke tomorrow, which we both know isn’t accurate.

[JeremyTheJew]

Saying the Russian mob “basically” controls the worlds largest arsenal of nuclear weapons is laughable and is part of the problem of over-hyping this mysterious new criminal force simply because we don’t know any better.

I’m reading Red Mafiya right now, excellent book, really puts things into perspective. The book is very pro-Russian, as in, it really glorifies the reach and influence of the Russian mob. But at the end of the day, these Russian mobsters are very independent to one another. There is no hierarchical structure like the LCN. No lines of succession, no formal “tribute” process, no precedent for inducting new members on American soil (that I have come across thus far in the book).
So to say the Russian mob - a mysterious and vague term lumping together thousands of different ethnic criminals and groups - controls the worlds largest nuclear arsenal is false, even if that argument is relying on the fact that the Russian mob controls the Russian government. It’s such an incredible stretch that really distorts the facts, IMO. It implies that a collective entity of criminals - “the Russian mob” - can pull out a nuke tomorrow, which we both know isn’t accurate.

The author was killed also