Double Affiliation

[Frank]

@wise guy

You guys really crack me up..... I've said it many times, yall just like to argue.......

You seem to not like the author, I could care less, lol. I'm more interested in the information...

Its dated? How does that even make sense? It's a book from 1991, or 89 or some shit, about OC in the mid to late 80s, you act like it JUST came out, lol. Are you sure you read it?

Look, there are lots of examples, of info in the book that Ive read in other places. Example, Felices info, the Iron Tower documents from Italy..... I saw these, when did he post this, 2014? ( EDIT: I WENT TO CHECK, IT WAS 2017) They state that it was well known Pat Conte paid 100,000 for his button.

In the book, there is an unnamed Gambino capo, whom (I believe by an informant ) It says paid 100 grand for his membership, and it was well known... This was in 89, or something... But you say the info is dated, and apparently not to be taken seriously, ....

There are LOTS of little examples like that in the book, where things I've read elsewhere, often multiple times are kinda confirmed. And I mean, there ARE some mistakes too....


One of the MOST glaring I found to be... the statement that there was, ( at the time of publishing, It may not have been known yet...) NO evidence that either Cesare Bonaventre or Baldassare Amato were made Bonnano members. I've read that Bonaventre was one of the youngest CAPOS too many times, in too many places for me to believe that.

NOW THAT IS DATED INFORMATION. In my opinion.

Another thing I just remembered... In the book, it ask... After Castellano was hit, WHO from the Commision took the " Rent" payments?

Well, it says LE surveillance caught John Gotti meeting regularly with..... John Gambino at the Cafe on 18th. What did we read from Felices Iron Tower papers?
The SAME FUCKING THING!!

Now here is where it got REALLY interesting to me....
Felices info, the interpretation was that Gotti was meeting with Gambino, to diffuse potential retaliation from the sicilians.

But Bronx said it was nonsense, that Gotti and Gambino were almost hand in glove. The book stated that they met to work out the heroin business. It said informants reported that Gambino had a big sitdown with a capo from EACH of the families at the Cafe on 18th.


Then I think to things I've read like Gotti ordering Conte to reopen his dope business, or Gotti getting heroin from the fellow Napolean, LCN connected Bardellino, who was connected to all the same dope people, some of this stuff makes sense to me....

I dont have my copy, I'll post the page number later, but in the book they say that John Gambino might be the only confirmed member of both mafias, or something like that. I'll post the exact excerpt when I have my book ....


I dont have my copy, but a lot of this stuff comes from the DEA following Enzo Napoli....

I dont know HOW, under WHAT circumstances, a NYC based agent would get to go to VENEZUELA and like, surveil the Cuntreras, I mean... What the Fuck?

I don't think anyone is saying that the book is totally wrong. I'm sure there is some good info in it. Hasn't it been confirmed that Rosario Gambino was made in Sicily and John and Joe were made in the Gambino Family. Also it's been written that one of the reasons Gotti knocked down John Gambino back to soldier is because he found out how much money Gambino was making and Gotti felt he hadn't kicked up enough..

[CabriniGreen]

@Frank

This is part of what got me interested in this.....

1. Pat Conte, made Gambino capo, said to be Head of the Gambino family Sicilian faction big heroin dealer...

2. Francesco Gambino, Sicilian mafia member, runs his operation from Brooklyn, said to be, "Head of the Sicilian mafia in NY".... Big heroin dealer

3. Cherry Hill Gambinos, half Sicilian mafia, half Gambino made men, big heroin dealers, autonomous, but answerable to 18th ave?

4. John Gambino -made Gambino guy, yet partners with
everyone from the Cuntreras to Rizzuto, the Grecos, Sindona has a HUGE family based clan of made guys in Sicily, who control a huge heroin refinery in Trapani. Said to be Head of the sicilian faction of the Gambinos....

5. Sal Catalano- Apparently ALL THIS GUY DID was move heroin. Didnt even speak english..... Head of the Sicilian NY operations......

6. Rosario Naimo- Head of the Sicilian mafia in US....

All this, while simultaneously, there is a narcotics ban....amongst the NY families.....


For a LONG TIME, no one of th his made sense to me....

[CabriniGreen]

I couldnt untie the knot...

I couldnt figure out where one group started and the other one ended... Or WHO WAS IN CHARGE...

[Confederate]

I couldnt untie the knot...

I couldnt figure out where one group started and the other one ended... Or WHO WAS IN CHARGE...

According to my understanding from the book "Last Days Of The Sicilians", the Zips in America REALLY belonged to a couple different Sicilian Mafia Clans. That was their first loyalty. They really were only working WITH Galante, not FOR him. Galante had a false sense of who was in charge of whom in my opinion from reading the Book. The Zips were far meaner and more ruthless than their American Counterparts. They were used to Bombings and killing people who were OFF LIMIT to the New York LCN guys.

[Confederate]

The Zips were basically in Charge of the Drug Business and were working WITH Galante. Galante was apparently hated by a lot of the New York People and the Commission got his two Zip Bodyguards to go along with the killing of Galante. The Zips were very secretive and clannish. From my understanding in reading the Book, the American LCN soldiers and the Zips didn't trust or really like each other.

[CabriniGreen]

@Confederate

I gotta say.....+1 to that my man..

[JeremyTheJew]

Did the book discuss Rosario Naimo? I dont remmember if it did.

I understand the crews for the most part but the 2000s on is where it gets confusing...
U got Dom Cefalus big brother.
Anthony Meagle who was said to run the zips as well as a conneticut crew.....how he ran the zips idk...
John Gambino was locked up during this time when Meagle was UB.
Then u got Francesco Palmeri, who as i said before, italians claimed was a high position w the gambino sicilians.

It seems like after the Pizza Connection Case it took down most of the Bonanno Zips....and then Massino kiled Ceaser and made Louie Attanasio capo... but it seems like after all that is when the Gambino Zips started getting stronger then the B's. I dont think there was as much as a rift w the Gambino zips and the americans.

Bonannos had... Catalano and Sally fruits Ferrugia as "street boss" of the Bonanno zips and then the Bonanno Family but were taken down due to communication issues.

[Wiseguy]

My man, how is this dated? New bridge, was coke to Europe, Heroin to the US. Set up by the descendants of the same people running the show decades ago....

Violis, South American coke, and Chinese fentanyl, opiates? You tell me, WHATS CHANGED?

I think you mean Old Bridge, which was Sicilian Mafia/US. New Bridge was Ndrangheta/US.

Anyway, by "dated" I mean the Sicilian Mafia doesn't have the same level of control of the drug trade it once did.

[JeremyTheJew]

Sounds like an interesting book, but doesn't mean everything in it is correct.One thing that you have to ask is if the Sicilians we're in charge of the entire drug operation, why a guy like John Gambino would become a made member of the Gambino Family? Why would the Sicilians be Galante's body guards and then be made into the Bonannos. Not to mention the fact that they killed him following American LCN orders

It is an interesting book but it's dated. One thing I recall I when Sterling talks about how the Sicilians were in a unique position (at the time) in terms of the international drug trade. The Colombians moved cocaine, the Chinese moved heroin, and the Sicilians moved both. Their ability to broker/traffic in both drugs gave them a controlling position, according to Sterling.

In her next book it was the Russians thay were all powerfull, have u read the followup? I beliebe its called thieves world

Yeah, in that one she just about every OC group under the sun coming together to plunder the world.

Was there ever even a "Pax Mafioso" like she was claiming? The Russian/Yakuza/Sicilians i believe it was.

[Wiseguy]

Sounds like an interesting book, but doesn't mean everything in it is correct.One thing that you have to ask is if the Sicilians we're in charge of the entire drug operation, why a guy like John Gambino would become a made member of the Gambino Family? Why would the Sicilians be Galante's body guards and then be made into the Bonannos. Not to mention the fact that they killed him following American LCN orders

It is an interesting book but it's dated. One thing I recall I when Sterling talks about how the Sicilians were in a unique position (at the time) in terms of the international drug trade. The Colombians moved cocaine, the Chinese moved heroin, and the Sicilians moved both. Their ability to broker/traffic in both drugs gave them a controlling position, according to Sterling.

In her next book it was the Russians thay were all powerfull, have u read the followup? I beliebe its called thieves world

Yeah, in that one she just about every OC group under the sun coming together to plunder the world.

Was there ever even a "Pax Mafioso" like she was claiming? The Russian/Yakuza/Sicilians i believe it was.

There are enough real life examples to show these groups will work together at times for mutual profit if the situation warrants it. But the idea of all these groups meeting together, like an underworld version of the U.N. is a little too comic book, in my opinion.

[JeremyTheJew]

Sounds like an interesting book, but doesn't mean everything in it is correct.One thing that you have to ask is if the Sicilians we're in charge of the entire drug operation, why a guy like John Gambino would become a made member of the Gambino Family? Why would the Sicilians be Galante's body guards and then be made into the Bonannos. Not to mention the fact that they killed him following American LCN orders

It is an interesting book but it's dated. One thing I recall I when Sterling talks about how the Sicilians were in a unique position (at the time) in terms of the international drug trade. The Colombians moved cocaine, the Chinese moved heroin, and the Sicilians moved both. Their ability to broker/traffic in both drugs gave them a controlling position, according to Sterling.

In her next book it was the Russians thay were all powerfull, have u read the followup? I beliebe its called thieves world

Yeah, in that one she just about every OC group under the sun coming together to plunder the world.

Was there ever even a "Pax Mafioso" like she was claiming? The Russian/Yakuza/Sicilians i believe it was.

There are enough real life examples to show these groups will work together at times for mutual profit if the situation warrants it. But the idea of all these groups meeting together, like an underworld version of the U.N. is a little too comic book, in my opinion.

Makes me think of the Dark Knight scene where the joker comes in and theres all the russians, blacks, colombians, etc meeting about what to do w batman.

Sterling somehow made the Russians seem6 like they were top players which i think its proven wrong they never were that powrmerfull at all. Ivabkov was her main Russian. It is interesting he was assassinated after the few books wrote him as in active after he got busted

[Wiseguy]

Sounds like an interesting book, but doesn't mean everything in it is correct.One thing that you have to ask is if the Sicilians we're in charge of the entire drug operation, why a guy like John Gambino would become a made member of the Gambino Family? Why would the Sicilians be Galante's body guards and then be made into the Bonannos. Not to mention the fact that they killed him following American LCN orders

It is an interesting book but it's dated. One thing I recall I when Sterling talks about how the Sicilians were in a unique position (at the time) in terms of the international drug trade. The Colombians moved cocaine, the Chinese moved heroin, and the Sicilians moved both. Their ability to broker/traffic in both drugs gave them a controlling position, according to Sterling.

In her next book it was the Russians thay were all powerfull, have u read the followup? I beliebe its called thieves world

Yeah, in that one she just about every OC group under the sun coming together to plunder the world.

Was there ever even a "Pax Mafioso" like she was claiming? The Russian/Yakuza/Sicilians i believe it was.

There are enough real life examples to show these groups will work together at times for mutual profit if the situation warrants it. But the idea of all these groups meeting together, like an underworld version of the U.N. is a little too comic book, in my opinion.

Makes me think of the Dark Knight scene where the joker comes in and theres all the russians, blacks, colombians, etc meeting about what to do w batman.

Sterling somehow made the Russians seem6 like they were top players which i think its proven wrong they never were that powrmerfull at all. Ivabkov was her main Russian. It is interesting he was assassinated after the few books wrote him as in active after he got busted

It's true Ivankov was a Vor and had connections to Russia. We used to have a former law enforcement guy on the old RD forum (salvine) who said when Ivankov first came to New York, Russian hoods were actually showing up at his place to give tribute.

But Ivankov didn't end up being a very good example of what many early Russian Mafiya myth peddlers claimed. Actually a much better example of real Russian OC in the U.S.

[CabriniGreen]

@wiseguy

No, I mean NEW BRIDGE....

Coke to Europe, heroin to th he US for distro..... they sold heroin to an undercoover....

[CabriniGreen]

And of course the sicilians dont, Jesus...


I been talking about Calabrian drug ops all this time, while you claim I'm " Drug centric" , and saying the NY families are marginalized.

I've been tracking the history of the routes, trying to show its been one unbroken ( actually, sometimes broken..) chain

Now you are saying the NY families run the trade, which one is it, lol


And again, it's not about Sterling hell the last week I've read 4 different books, from 4 different perspectives, a lawyer, NY cops, Dea agents....

Why the fuck would you guys read a book about Japanese or Russians that's not written by a Japanese or Russian person? Kinda like how our best info from Canada comes from the Canadian sources.
While people still think the Feds have total info as to what's happening up there....

[CabriniGreen]

Also, a reminder..

The thread is about the phenomenon of Double affiliation, which seems to occur when the mafias engage in intercontental trafficking.

That was the whole point...