Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[stubbs]

Also, my guess is the majority of the Buffalo family’s power is in Hamilton. Whether that’s 80/20 or 95/5 or whatever, I don’t know. But my guess is in terms of made guys operating on the actual streets of Buffalo, like actually running rackets, has to be no more than 5... 10 guys tops.

While I think your theory is plausible, as was discussed earlier in this thread, the majority of the remaining membership is in Buffalo. And that's where most of the cases, few and far between as they've been, have come over the past 20 years. This idea that people have come up with that the power is now on Hamilton or anywhere else in Canada has really no basis.

You could be right, and if you are that’s very wild to me... considering up until recently we all couldnt even agree if they had gone defunct or not. I had always was on the side that they were dead, but will admit I was completely wrong.

I wonder what kind of rackets they’re running in Buffalo? Also, I wonder how deeply involved in drugs they are?

[stubbs]

My other thought is Todaro Jr might be like a boss in name only. Meaning, he doesnt actually run any rackets (other than pizza, lol), but he still can give out advice, make members, and collect some cash kicked up to him. So Todaro makes Violi his UB, who then (with the rest of Hamilton) gets essentially free reign to operate how they see fit, with the benefit of LCN legitamacy by way of the Buffalo banner. Todaro just has to sit back and collect tribute and do the occasional sit down when needed.

I think this is a good hypothesis and the likely scenario.


Todaro Jnr is likely inactive, regards actually running LCN activity, and acts in a limited fashion, makes members, kept in the loop, gets an envelope but day to day had passed the buck to Violi who could be more aptly be characterized as acting rather than UB. UB in this I suspect = acting. IE running the day to day operations of the family.


All speculation obviously, but makes the most sense to yours.

This has been my viewpoint as well as I've stated earlier in this thread. This POV helps the most to make sense of it all. Todaro being the nominal boss who is semi-retired but still held in high regard and sought for councel while most of the remaining family operations are in Canada, out of reach of the FBI. In this situation the family can still be regarded viable, at least from my standards.

I've often being enjoying your analysis on the other board Stubbs (which I still visit occassionally), so welcome to the board.

Thanks Lupara!

[Lupara]

Also, my guess is the majority of the Buffalo family’s power is in Hamilton. Whether that’s 80/20 or 95/5 or whatever, I don’t know. But my guess is in terms of made guys operating on the actual streets of Buffalo, like actually running rackets, has to be no more than 5... 10 guys tops.

While I think your theory is plausible, as was discussed earlier in this thread, the majority of the remaining membership is in Buffalo. And that's where most of the cases, few and far between as they've been, have come over the past 20 years. This idea that people have come up with that the power is now on Hamilton or anywhere else in Canada has really no basis.

The fact that for the first time in history a Canadian has been named underboss of a US based family is no basis of that for you, along with the fact of a lack of activity on the US border?

[NickleCity]

Also, my guess is the majority of the Buffalo family’s power is in Hamilton. Whether that’s 80/20 or 95/5 or whatever, I don’t know. But my guess is in terms of made guys operating on the actual streets of Buffalo, like actually running rackets, has to be no more than 5... 10 guys tops.

While I think your theory is plausible, as was discussed earlier in this thread, the majority of the remaining membership is in Buffalo. And that's where most of the cases, few and far between as they've been, have come over the past 20 years. This idea that people have come up with that the power is now on Hamilton or anywhere else in Canada has really no basis.

@Wiseguy, I'm with you on this. Buffalo may have a significant numbers (for a small family) in Southern Ontario, but that does not mean 80-90% of the family is in Canada. Buffalo is a small family (comparatively speaking) so it makes sense that the number of cases in the last 20 years would be much smaller than the larger families in NYC. It think folks have to remember that the Todaro crime family doesn't just have a presence in Buffalo and Hamilton, but has a small presence in most of WNY including the Niagara Frontier, the Southern Tier, Rochester, and possibly Rome/Utica. I, also, believe they still have a presence in Vegas--given John Pieri is out there, Panaro is back and forth, and the HOA scam involving guys tied Buffalo a few years back.

[Wiseguy]

Also, my guess is the majority of the Buffalo family’s power is in Hamilton. Whether that’s 80/20 or 95/5 or whatever, I don’t know. But my guess is in terms of made guys operating on the actual streets of Buffalo, like actually running rackets, has to be no more than 5... 10 guys tops.

While I think your theory is plausible, as was discussed earlier in this thread, the majority of the remaining membership is in Buffalo. And that's where most of the cases, few and far between as they've been, have come over the past 20 years. This idea that people have come up with that the power is now on Hamilton or anywhere else in Canada has really no basis.

You could be right, and if you are that’s very wild to me... considering up until recently we all couldnt even agree if they had gone defunct or not. I had always was on the side that they were dead, but will admit I was completely wrong.

I wonder what kind of rackets they’re running in Buffalo? Also, I wonder how deeply involved in drugs they are?

The "few and far between" cases I was referring to have been minor, sporadic stuff. I've posted them here before.

The point is, this idea people have come up with that the power is now in Canada, just because of one moderate drug bust and a Canadian guy being named underboss, is baseless. If there's more members on the U.S. side, and even less cases on the Canadian side, what does that say? Especially considering what the FBI has said about the family.

Don't get caught up in all the recent hype. Little to nothing will happen with this "resurgent family" in the years to come and only then will people see recent events for the anomoly they are. As I've said, its basically Detroit all over again on these forums.

The fact that for the first time in history a Canadian has been named underboss of a US based family is no basis of that for you, along with the fact of a lack of activity on the US border?

No, it's not. Violi is likely an anomoly, as I keep saying over and over again. And there's been even more lack of activity on the Canadian side of the border. But you guys keep acting like we've seen case after case showing a robust part of the family in Canada and there's nothing really showing that.

@Wiseguy, I'm with you on this. Buffalo may have a significant numbers (for a small family) in Southern Ontario, but that does not mean 80-90% of the family is in Canada. Buffalo is a small family (comparatively speaking) so it makes sense that the number of cases in the last 20 years would be much smaller than the larger families in NYC. It think folks have to remember that the Todaro crime family doesn't just have a presence in Buffalo and Hamilton, but has a small presence in most of WNY including the Niagara Frontier, the Southern Tier, Rochester, and possibly Rome/Utica. I, also, believe they still have a presence in Vegas--given John Pieri is out there, Panaro is back and forth, and the HOA scam involving guys tied Buffalo a few years back.

Don't put too much stock in a guy or two being out in Vegas equating to the family having a presence there. Just because Stango was living in Vegas, that didn't really mean the DeCavalcante family was active there. Back in 2000, the feds considered the 5 NY families and the Chicago Outfit to be the only families to still have a presence in Vegas. And that was nearly 20 years ago now. I'm not sure that could be said about any family at this point.

[Moscone65]

20 years ago, the buffalo family was involved with the whacking of that guy, he was Jewish (blitzstein I think) in Las Vegas, so it seems they were still having interests there around that time, so I call bullshit. The FBI's website is fucking garbage in terms of most OC stuff, so when they say shit who knows how much facts they leave out, or what they add in.

[Pogo The Clown]

That was in the 90s and was more of an LA family thing. They were all busted for it of course.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

20 years ago, the buffalo family was involved with the whacking of that guy, he was Jewish (blitzstein I think) in Las Vegas, so it seems they were still having interests there around that time, so I call bullshit. The FBI's website is fucking garbage in terms of most OC stuff, so when they say shit who knows how much facts they leave out, or what they add in.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as far as "fucking garbage" on the FBI website but I double checked and the article was from 2002 (see link below). It says, quoting the FBI SAC at the time, only the New York and Chicago families had a presence in Vegas by that point and only about a dozen members still lived there.

Incidentally, the article also covers the case you're talking about but that was in the late 1990s, as Pogo said, the indictment coming down in 1998. That was around the time some Gambino associates were attempting to move in on the escort business there. The last mob case in Vegas, at least that I can recall off the top of my head, was the Crazy Horse Too strip club bust in 2003 involving Outfit associate Rick Rizzolo and others.

It's now 2019. We have seen the mob's bookmaking networks still stretching out west but that's about it. Or there may be a connection there to bring drugs back east, like in the Paradiso case. But as far as permanent, self-standing and active crews, or any kind of significant presence by the families still left (much less those not still around), no. Hell, you could probably almost count the number of made guys out west on two hands now.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2002/jul ... -foothold/

[Rat]

It's funny I lurk this site a lot and there seems to be two camps, you'll usually have Pogo and a few others claiming that every family outside of NY is on the brink of death, then you'll have a few others who claim every family is resurgent. I can never tell which one is right.

[Hellboy]

Think the answer is somewhere in the middle

[Pogo The Clown]

It's funny I lurk this site a lot and there seems to be two camps, you'll usually have Pogo and a few others claiming that every family outside of NY is on the brink of death, then you'll have a few others who claim every family is resurgent. I can never tell which one is right.

I don't recall ever saying that.


Pogo

[NickleCity]

That was in the 90s and was more of an LA family thing. They were all busted for it of course.


Pogo

Actually I believe Law Enforcement in Nevada believed Buffalo was the strongest crime family in Vegas at that time. There is this from the Buffalo News article called "Buffalo Mob Holds Say over Las Vegas, Some Law Officers Claim" on May 6, 1990:

Buffalo's organized crime family is considered the most influential in the mob's "open city" of Las Vegas, according to a top law enforcement official in Nevada.

The family is involved in a Las Vegas-to-Buffalo pipeline for cocaine and other illegal activities, police investigators say.

On March 20, police in Las Vegas arrested three men identified as Buffalo natives and associates of the Buffalo mob. The men -- Louis Giambrone, 40, and Joseph Amoia, 34, both of Amherst, and Lawrence Panaro, 38, now of Las Vegas -- were charged with possession of cocaine worth $64,000.

Last year, the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Nevada's largest newspaper, ran photos of reputed Buffalo mob leaders Joseph Todaro Jr. and Leonard Falzone, and quoted investigators as saying the Todaro family is "far and away" the leading crime family in the Nevada gambling capital.

[Lupara]

then you'll have a few others who claim every family is resurgent. I can never tell which one is right.

Nobody here has been claiming that. If it wasn't for this case and subsequent reports I would also still believe that Buffalo is no longer viable just as most of the other smaller families with no signs of activity. I hardly believe the family is making a comeback but this is sufficient evidence of some remaining activity and re-organization.

Let's face it, it's evident to anyone (even Pogo and Wiseguy know it) that nobody here is going to change another one's mind. We all have explained our pov the best we could and we're now at the point that this is going nowhere until there is new information, or no new information 5-10 years from now when everyone wishes there was still LCN.

[NickleCity]

...It's now 2019. We have seen the mob's bookmaking networks still stretching out west but that's about it. Or there may be a connection there to bring drugs back east, like in the Paradiso case. But as far as permanent, self-standing and active crews, or any kind of significant presence by the families still left (much less those not still around), no. Hell, you could probably almost count the number of made guys out west on two hands now.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2002/jul ... -foothold/

It appears individuals (Bravo & Citelli) with ties to Buffalo are still involved in some juice loans according to this article:

Target of Las Vegas HOA investigation detailed scheme, bribes in secret documents

By JEFF GERMAN © 2014 LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
October 30, 2014 - 8:31 pm

...Investigators in 2011 also asked Benzer about possible mob involvement in the HOA takeover scheme.

In one interview, Benzer said he was friends with Joseph A. Bravo, a Las Vegas ticket broker who received an 87-month federal prison term in 1993 for his role in a cocaine trafficking ring with alleged ties to the Buffalo mob.

Benzer said he met Bravo through lawyer John V. Spilotro, the nephew of Anthony “The Ant” Spilotro, the Chicago mob’s infamous overseer of street rackets in Las Vegas until his murder in 1986.

Bravo’s nephew, real estate agent Anthony R. Wilson, pleaded guilty in the HOA investigation. So did limousine driver Paul Citelli, who was convicted with Bravo in the 1993 cocaine case.

Benzer told investigators that he didn’t believe Bravo had mob ties, but admitted that Bravo had loaned him as much as $20,000 and turned him on to hard money lenders as the scheme progressed.

Before sitting down with Benzer, Justice Department lawyers agreed not to use anything he said against him at trial if the negotiations fell through. But they were free to corroborate the wealth of information they got from Benzer with other witnesses....

If you read some more articles about this HOA scam Bravo is alleged to still have ties to drug cartels and now co-owns a small airport along with his mob connected lawyer in Baja Sur Mexico, even though he was convicted of drug trafficking for the Todaro crime family in the early 90's. That alone should prevent him from owning the airport.

Here is the article linking Citilli to the Buffalo Mob:

FCBS Chanel 8 in Vegas
I-Team: More Targets in HOA Conspiracy
by:
George Knapp
Matt Adams
Posted: Jun 01, 2012 / 04:13 PM PDT
Updated: Jun 01, 2012 / 04:38 PM PDT

LAS VEGAS -- Twenty five people have now admitted their guilt in a massive political corruption conspiracy involving a dozen local homeowner associations, but the case is far from over.
...
...

The History of the HOA Scandal

Defendant Paul Citelli found himself bouncing like a ping pong ball between two I-Team cameras. The HOA mess is not his first trouble with the law. The FBI thinks he's affiliated with the Buffalo mob. The Review-Journal's John Smith reported last year that Citelli was part of a huge Mafia cocaine ring back in the 1980s.

This could be nothing, but it could give a little credence to the notion that Buffalo may have a presence in Vegas as well.

[Wiseguy]

It's funny I lurk this site a lot and there seems to be two camps, you'll usually have Pogo and a few others claiming that every family outside of NY is on the brink of death, then you'll have a few others who claim every family is resurgent. I can never tell which one is right.

Although these are from a much longer list, I think these two excerpts below provide ample "bookends" of a 20 year period that show the state of things. You'll notice how similar they are and, if you follow them, how much the cases over that time period have substantiated them. This is what Pogo and myself have always agreed with.


There are five crime families that make up the LCN in New York City: the Bonanno, the Colombo, the Genovese, the Gambino, and the Lucchese families. There is also LCN operational activity in Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, and the Miami\South Florida area but much less so than in New York. In other previous strongholds...the LCN is now weak or non-existent. (UN report on LCN, 1999)

The major LCN families include the five New York-based families—Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese; the Newark-based DeCavalcante family; the New England LCN; the Philadelphia LCN; and the Chicago Outfit. They have members in other major cities and are involved in international crimes. (FBI website, 2019)

Actually I believe Law Enforcement in Nevada believed Buffalo was the strongest crime family in Vegas at that time. There is this from the Buffalo News article called "Buffalo Mob Holds Say over Las Vegas, Some Law Officers Claim" on May 6, 1990:

Buffalo's organized crime family is considered the most influential in the mob's "open city" of Las Vegas, according to a top law enforcement official in Nevada.

The family is involved in a Las Vegas-to-Buffalo pipeline for cocaine and other illegal activities, police investigators say.

On March 20, police in Las Vegas arrested three men identified as Buffalo natives and associates of the Buffalo mob. The men -- Louis Giambrone, 40, and Joseph Amoia, 34, both of Amherst, and Lawrence Panaro, 38, now of Las Vegas -- were charged with possession of cocaine worth $64,000.

Last year, the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Nevada's largest newspaper, ran photos of reputed Buffalo mob leaders Joseph Todaro Jr. and Leonard Falzone, and quoted investigators as saying the Todaro family is "far and away" the leading crime family in the Nevada gambling capital.

Pogo was referring to the LA family's involvement in the Blitzstein case (and Operation Thin Crust) in the late 1990s. You're article is from 1990. And, while it is interesting, we now have the benefit of hindsight and can see what the FBI was saying by 2002 was correct.

It appears individuals (Bravo & Citelli) with ties to Buffalo are still involved in some juice loans according to this article:

Target of Las Vegas HOA investigation detailed scheme, bribes in secret documents

By JEFF GERMAN © 2014 LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
October 30, 2014 - 8:31 pm

...Investigators in 2011 also asked Benzer about possible mob involvement in the HOA takeover scheme.

In one interview, Benzer said he was friends with Joseph A. Bravo, a Las Vegas ticket broker who received an 87-month federal prison term in 1993 for his role in a cocaine trafficking ring with alleged ties to the Buffalo mob.

Benzer said he met Bravo through lawyer John V. Spilotro, the nephew of Anthony “The Ant” Spilotro, the Chicago mob’s infamous overseer of street rackets in Las Vegas until his murder in 1986.

Bravo’s nephew, real estate agent Anthony R. Wilson, pleaded guilty in the HOA investigation. So did limousine driver Paul Citelli, who was convicted with Bravo in the 1993 cocaine case.

Benzer told investigators that he didn’t believe Bravo had mob ties, but admitted that Bravo had loaned him as much as $20,000 and turned him on to hard money lenders as the scheme progressed.

Before sitting down with Benzer, Justice Department lawyers agreed not to use anything he said against him at trial if the negotiations fell through. But they were free to corroborate the wealth of information they got from Benzer with other witnesses....

If you read some more articles about this HOA scam Bravo is alleged to still have ties to drug cartels and now co-owns a small airport along with his mob connected lawyer in Baja Sur Mexico, even though he was convicted of drug trafficking for the Todaro crime family in the early 90's. That alone should prevent him from owning the airport.

Here is the article linking Citilli to the Buffalo Mob:

FCBS Chanel 8 in Vegas
I-Team: More Targets in HOA Conspiracy
by:
George Knapp
Matt Adams
Posted: Jun 01, 2012 / 04:13 PM PDT
Updated: Jun 01, 2012 / 04:38 PM PDT

LAS VEGAS -- Twenty five people have now admitted their guilt in a massive political corruption conspiracy involving a dozen local homeowner associations, but the case is far from over.
...
...

The History of the HOA Scandal

Defendant Paul Citelli found himself bouncing like a ping pong ball between two I-Team cameras. The HOA mess is not his first trouble with the law. The FBI thinks he's affiliated with the Buffalo mob. The Review-Journal's John Smith reported last year that Citelli was part of a huge Mafia cocaine ring back in the 1980s.

This could be nothing, but it could give a little credence to the notion that Buffalo may have a presence in Vegas as well.

I think you're grasping at straws here.