Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[CabriniGreen]

@wiseguy

Why is it in the other thread, when I was talking about Sicilian dominance in the drug trade, THESE numbers were invisible to you then?

Why did you give me a list of French Connection traffickers from the period they were " knee deep" in the trade? The 50s and 60s to EARLY 70s?

Like why do you argue they were partners in the trade, then say they were marginalized? How are they marginalized if they are partners? That has never made sense to me.....

How are were they partners, yet marginalized in coke? They can send thousands of kilos to Europe but not NY? Why not?

I even read somewhere the American LCN was pissed the sicilians cut them out the trade.....After they went and opened the front door to NY and Canada...

I'll tell you what, you guys answer me these questions..... And these arnt attacks, these are for real questions we gotta answer moving forward with all this...

1. Why are the Violis even important at all, if not for narcotics trafficking ?

If Ndrangheta is overrated, Buffalo is a decaying, insignificant organization, and the drug trade isnt that important to American LCN, not to mention Hamilton being smaller than Buffalo, NOT TO MENTION the opinion that family ties dont automatically mean mafia status, what is it?

Are they great hitters?

2. Indeed, what was the point at all, what was their actual interest, as far as the Gambinos, in both Old and New bridge.


2a. Why do they give a shit, whether or not the Sicilians OR Calabrians can, or where they source their coke?

2b. And to that point, what are they doing in Toronto with Italians from Italy?

2c. Genuine question, WHAT would the action be? Gambling? Why would Americans need European Italians for gambling?

3. Why are the Hells so powerful?

4. Why is the Wolfpack influencial?

5. Why is Greg Wooley important AT ALL? Indeed, you can add guys like Mirarchi and Scoppa to the list too....

6. Do you think Zummos coke deal was an isolated incident?

7. Why is a relationship with the bikers an important thing? Think Joe Violi here.....

8. Why does every potential leader in Canada either have large scale drug connections, operations, or relations with the Bikers?

9. What do you think of Renauds assessment of the current power situation in Canada? Specifically the Italian groups. What's their individual strenghts? Im especially interested in your response @wiseguy.......

[CabriniGreen]

On the other hand, I don't know how one would define "knee deep," but the NY families are still very much involved in drug trafficking, some more than others. It is one of their core rackets. However, they've been marginalized by other groups in the drug trade since the 1980's and the New York Mafia's staying power has come much more from its diversification than being #1 in narcotics.

Like knee-deep controlling the heroin trade in the US as it was in the 70s. Pizza Connection and Gambino-Inzerillo network knee-deep. You're saying this is still the case as of today?

How many made members are still heavily involved in drugs? The busts I recall most often include associates.

No, as I said above, the LCN has been marginalized in the drug trade since the 1980s, though the changes began in the late 1960s and throughout the 1970s.

See here... Not exactly.

The changes started MUCH SOONER THAN THE LATE 60s..........

It started with the death of Luciano. this is 62.
( actually, it started in 57, that's when American LCN made the decision to stop trafficking, they didnt need to, they had the territory/ market access, and the ports..)

He, more than anyone was the Americans point man....

The other American point man, Frank Coppola, became more enmeshed in the internal politics of the Partinico family, and the Christian Democrats, Salvatore Guiliano and the Portella massacre, all that mess, Luciano Leggio and the Corleonesi. Basically he became more of a creature of Italy.

63, the first mafia war happens, the Cupola disbands, and the trade is hijacked by a mafia click, all allies of the Gambinos... and the Grecos...

BACK IN NEW YORK....
Genovese and Maggadinno lose face because of Apppalachin, created opening for Gambino.....


Profaci dies... this weakens Bonnano on the Commision and Zerilli, whom Gambino and Luchesse began undermining. Remember, Detroit had people at the meeting too, Priziola i think....They muscle Bonnano, who set up the 57 deal, off the Commision. Plus, 2 of his guys who were there Garafolo and Bonaventre, retire......

The other, Galante is set up with Genovese, Ormento, Gigante and the rest. Basically all of the Gambinos potential competitors in NY were wiped away...



The trade is run from Brazil, Greco set it up. Buscetta becomes a Gambino agent in NY, then Brazil. Casamento sets up Eagle Cheese I think. Catalano comes over , the Gambinos and Manninos start to come over i believe.


This ring outta Brazil goes until they bust the Corsicans, early 70s......


Now at this point, the French Connection, In NY is kiNDA on its last legs, and this is supported by your data... This was the end of like, Commision sanctioned widespread drug dealing amongst NY based mafiosi.

This was right before the Pizza connection took hold, I dont even know if Bono has moved to NY yet....

This is when the sicilians began the takeover of heroin, when the AMERICANS were " Marginalized"....



It takes the Sicilians a few years, to get the WHOLE CHAIN up and running...


I left a lot out.....

[Wiseguy]

Here's the thing....
First of all, Zummo is locked up FOR SELLING A KILO OF COKE, ( to a cop, right?) and was caught on tape with two known drug guys, that's what actually happened....

If you are looking at the Calabrians, or Canada, the Hells, the Wolfpack, Italy, Mexico, or South America, and you ARE NOT looking at drugs, honestly...

I got no idea what the fuck you are looking at... seriously.

Even the Violis, their narcotics ties are more impressive than their mob ties to me. Half the forum believes Dom Violi underboss of a dead family.

You erase the drug ties, @wiseguy @lupara tell me, what do you have then? If You dont subscribe to the ndrangheta crime families increasing in power, Buffalo isnt a thing, drugs arnt signifigant, NY doesnt deal drugs, none of you guys explanations make sense. SOMETHING has to give.....

I dont even understand what you guys are arguing half the time...

Hello, Cabrini? What was I talking about? The Ndrangheta? Hells Angels? Wolf Pack? No. I was talking about the American mob, past and present.

I never said drugs weren't significant. It's been one of the American mob's core rackets for decades. But it's never been their #1 racket, much less the all-encompasing, everything-revolves-around-it factor you seem to think of it as.

I never said New York doesn't deal drugs. I've repeatedly said the NY families are still very much involved in the drug trade, albeit marginalized compared to the past and by certain other groups.

It's like, I read the Cammarrano, is that him? I read the indictment too, I mean they were moving POT from Cali.... Yet you think they are what....ABOVE moving coke? Dont get it...

I'll assume this is directed to Lupara.

@Wiseguy, Do you have a similar report at your disposal for Canada during this time?

No, it was a U.S. government report.

The AMERICAN mobs height was the 50and 60s in narcotics.

Their rise in the drug trade began in the 1930s, they were dominant from the 1940s through the 1960s, and things began to change in the 1970s.

@wiseguy

Why is it in the other thread, when I was talking about Sicilian dominance in the drug trade, THESE numbers were invisible to you then?

They weren't invisible to me. You started that whole thing with a loaded question about "Who controlled the drug trade, the Sicilians or Americans?" I say loaded because you already had your mind made up about it (the Sicilians) so why even ask the question? When I said both the Sicilians and Americans controlled it, that's when the disagreement with you began. But it was largely one over semantics and what one means by "control."

Why did you give me a list of French Connection traffickers from the period they were " knee deep" in the trade? The 50s and 60s to EARLY 70s?

Like why do you argue they were partners in the trade, then say they were marginalized? How are they marginalized if they are partners? That has never made sense to me.....

How are were they partners, yet marginalized in coke? They can send thousands of kilos to Europe but not NY? Why not?

I even read somewhere the American LCN was pissed the sicilians cut them out the trade.....After they went and opened the front door to NY and Canada...

The heck are you talking about?

I've said the American mob has been marginalized in the U.S. drug trade since the 1980s. Heroin was really the only game in town for years and the American mob was dominant in it from the 1940s through the 1960s. Other groups began to get more involved in the heroin trade by the 1970s, though the Mafia was still very much involved.
But it was the 1980s when we saw the end of the Pizza Connection and Iron Tower, the Chinese beginning to grab a big piece of the NY heroin trade, and the Cubans and Colombians changing things with cocaine. Since then, the American mob has been marginalized in the drug trade. It continued to be involved in the drug trade, the NY families especially so, but it no longer had the controlling stake in heroin it once did and was never in a position to control cocaine or marijuana.

1. Why are the Violis even important at all, if not for narcotics trafficking ?

If Ndrangheta is overrated, Buffalo is a decaying, insignificant organization, and the drug trade isnt that important to American LCN, not to mention Hamilton being smaller than Buffalo, NOT TO MENTION the opinion that family ties dont automatically mean mafia status, what is it?

Are they great hitters?

2. Indeed, what was the point at all, what was their actual interest, as far as the Gambinos, in both Old and New bridge.

2a. Why do they give a shit, whether or not the Sicilians OR Calabrians can, or where they source their coke?

2b. And to that point, what are they doing in Toronto with Italians from Italy?

2c. Genuine question, WHAT would the action be? Gambling? Why would Americans need European Italians for gambling?

3. Why are the Hells so powerful?

4. Why is the Wolfpack influencial?

5. Why is Greg Wooley important AT ALL? Indeed, you can add guys like Mirarchi and Scoppa to the list too....

6. Do you think Zummos coke deal was an isolated incident?

7. Why is a relationship with the bikers an important thing? Think Joe Violi here.....

8. Why does every potential leader in Canada either have large scale drug connections, operations, or relations with the Bikers?

9. What do you think of Renauds assessment of the current power situation in Canada? Specifically the Italian groups. What's their individual strenghts? Im especially interested in your response @wiseguy.......

You keep jumping back and forth between the U.S. and Canada. Drugs are obviously more central to the mob in Canada than the U.S. When it comes to Canada, you have more of a reason to be drug-centric. But thats neither here nor there since the disagreement hasn't really been in regards to Canada but about the U.S. So I'll touch on points that are U.S. related.

I agree that the Violis are really drug really traffickers more than anything else. One Violi was only made not that long ago and his underboss title is more form than substance since there's little left of the crime family he's said to be underboss over. The other Violi isnt even made yet.

Obviously the Old and New Bridge cases revolved around drug trafficking. But what's your point? Again, I never said the Gambinos and other NY families weren't involved in drug trafficking. They certainly are. But they're still marginalized by other groups, even when they're working with the Italians across the Atlantic. Read any recent DEA National Drug Threat Assessment or New York/New Jersey HIDTA report to see the state of things.

The changes started MUCH SOONER THAN THE LATE 60s..........

It started with the death of Luciano. this is 62.
( actually, it started in 57, that's when American LCN made the decision to stop trafficking, they didnt need to, they had the territory/ market access, and the ports..)

The only thing that really changed in 1957 was the official policy the American mob had about drug trafficking. However, as has been pointed out whenever this subject comes up, the policy and how things really worked were quite different. American mobsters remained deeply involved in the drug (i.e. heroin) trade, and were a part of controlling it, whether they were working with the Corsicans or Sicilians.

[CabriniGreen]

Made a huge post that didnt post.... so ill give my responses in awhile....

[Lupara]

No, as I said above, the LCN has been marginalized in the drug trade since the 1980s, though the changes began in the late 1960s and throughout the 1970s.

Interesting you say that, what makes you think so? With the Sicilians taking over the heroin trade from the Corsicans I always believed the 1970s to the early 80s was the height of the mob's involvement in narcotics.

Or are you pointing toward the drug trade as a whole? With the Colombians bringing in cocaine starting in the 1970s and perhaps the Chinese traids bringing in some heroin as well?

This is all in a report I posted on the forum not long ago but to sum things up...

Pretty much from the time the LCN took over from Jewish traffickers by the late 1930s, it controlled the heroin trade. Even when the French Corsicans replaced Italy as the main source of heroin to U.S., much of the French heroin went to Sicily which was then imported to the U.S. through Montreal and Mexico. All heroin went to NYC before distribution to the eastern part of the U.S. In 1965, law enforcement could not find a single large-scale heroin operation in NYC independent of the LCN.

Although the Corsican-Sicilian-LCN (French Connection) continued to dominate heroin importation, there began to be major black and Hispanic wholesalers by the late 1960s. By the 1970s, the LCN concentrated on importation and wholesale distribution and was no longer a major factor in street sales. The French Connection supplied 75-80% of the U.S. heroin market in 1972, 45% in 1973, and only 2% in 1974. By 1975, while LCN remained an important factor in trafficking, black and Hispanic groups handled the bulk of heroin trafficking in NYC. Of the 13 major NYC drug dealers identified in 1975, 4 were LCN, 5 were black, and 4 were Hispanic (for cocaine). Asian and Mexican heroin independent of LCN predominated from 1975-1980. Of course, the Sicilian-American LCN Pizza Connection brought in $1.65 billion worth of heroin into the U.S. from between 1979-1984.

By the mid-1980s, cocaine was replacing heroin as the top drug in the U.S. Operation Iron Tower - cocaine smuggled from South America to Europe and traded against heroin which was then smuggled to the US - ran from 1984-1988. But from 1985 to the early 1990s, Chinese traffickers became dominant in New York heroin trade by supplying over 40% of the heroin, the rest coming from variety of sources. And, from the early 1990s to the present, the Colombians (and later Mexican) cartels started trafficking in high grade heroin and became the main source to the U.S.

@Wiseguy, Do you have a similar report at your disposal for Canada during this time?

Interesting, where did you post that report?

Could you clear up the Asian and Mexican heroin predominated from 1975-1980 then later say they only became dominant in the heroin trade in the late 80s. Did they or did they not eclipsed the LCN in the heroin trade between 1975-80? Hard to believe that to be honest with the rise of Galante, the Rizzutos, the Cuntrera-Caruanas, Bontate and Inzerillo bringing in massive quantities of heroin at that time. With LCN still being the most powerful crime group in the US, why would they allow smaller criminal groups to surpass them in the drug trade?

[Lupara]

@wiseguy

Why is it in the other thread, when I was talking about Sicilian dominance in the drug trade, THESE numbers were invisible to you then?

Why did you give me a list of French Connection traffickers from the period they were " knee deep" in the trade? The 50s and 60s to EARLY 70s?

Like why do you argue they were partners in the trade, then say they were marginalized? How are they marginalized if they are partners? That has never made sense to me.....

How are were they partners, yet marginalized in coke? They can send thousands of kilos to Europe but not NY? Why not?

I even read somewhere the American LCN was pissed the sicilians cut them out the trade.....After they went and opened the front door to NY and Canada...

I'll tell you what, you guys answer me these questions..... And these arnt attacks, these are for real questions we gotta answer moving forward with all this...

1. Why are the Violis even important at all, if not for narcotics trafficking ?

Who says they are important to LCN? You repeatedly state that they have extensive connections, so much so that the NY families would depend on them, but on what source do you base this statement? Not saying they aren't important, but I haven't seen anything to suggest they are as important as you seem to believe.

8. Why does every potential leader in Canada either have large scale drug connections, operations, or relations with the Bikers?

Because of the huge profits drugs generate, the fact that their power and influence depends on it, and the fact that prison sentences in Canada are a joke compared to the US so the benefits outweight the risks.

[Wiseguy]

Interesting, where did you post that report?

Much of the info I originally posted came from a report I mentioned in "The Mob and Drugs" thread. The report is from 1982 and titled Organized Crime in the United States: A Review of the Public Record. Its well over 400 pages long (The drug section goes from pages 214 to 395) and covers things pretty in depth from the early years up through the 1970s (see link below).

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitiz ... 1NCJRS.pdf

Could you clear up the Asian and Mexican heroin predominated from 1975-1980 then later say they only became dominant in the heroin trade in the late 80s. Did they or did they not eclipsed the LCN in the heroin trade between 1975-80? Hard to believe that to be honest with the rise of Galante, the Rizzutos, the Cuntrera-Caruanas, Bontate and Inzerillo bringing in massive quantities of heroin at that time. With LCN still being the most powerful crime group in the US, why would they allow smaller criminal groups to surpass them in the drug trade?

Thats a good question and one I wondered about myself. We know the Pizza Connection ran from the mid-1970s to the mid-1980s and it was only afterward late that the Chinese grabbed the biggest piece of the New York market with their "China White" heroin. Perhaps the report was talking on a national scale as opposed to New York (which was still the single largest market). Feel free to read through it when you have time.

[CabriniGreen]

No, as I said above, the LCN has been marginalized in the drug trade since the 1980s, though the changes began in the late 1960s and throughout the 1970s.

Interesting you say that, what makes you think so? With the Sicilians taking over the heroin trade from the Corsicans I always believed the 1970s to the early 80s was the height of the mob's involvement in narcotics.

Or are you pointing toward the drug trade as a whole? With the Colombians bringing in cocaine starting in the 1970s and perhaps the Chinese traids bringing in some heroin as well?

This is all in a report I posted on the forum not long ago but to sum things up...

Pretty much from the time the LCN took over from Jewish traffickers by the late 1930s, it controlled the heroin trade. Even when the French Corsicans replaced Italy as the main source of heroin to U.S., much of the French heroin went to Sicily which was then imported to the U.S. through Montreal and Mexico. All heroin went to NYC before distribution to the eastern part of the U.S. In 1965, law enforcement could not find a single large-scale heroin operation in NYC independent of the LCN.

Although the Corsican-Sicilian-LCN (French Connection) continued to dominate heroin importation, there began to be major black and Hispanic wholesalers by the late 1960s. By the 1970s, the LCN concentrated on importation and wholesale distribution and was no longer a major factor in street sales. The French Connection supplied 75-80% of the U.S. heroin market in 1972, 45% in 1973, and only 2% in 1974. By 1975, while LCN remained an important factor in trafficking, black and Hispanic groups handled the bulk of heroin trafficking in NYC. Of the 13 major NYC drug dealers identified in 1975, 4 were LCN, 5 were black, and 4 were Hispanic (for cocaine). Asian and Mexican heroin independent of LCN predominated from 1975-1980. Of course, the Sicilian-American LCN Pizza Connection brought in $1.65 billion worth of heroin into the U.S. from between 1979-1984.

By the mid-1980s, cocaine was replacing heroin as the top drug in the U.S. Operation Iron Tower - cocaine smuggled from South America to Europe and traded against heroin which was then smuggled to the US - ran from 1984-1988. But from 1985 to the early 1990s, Chinese traffickers became dominant in New York heroin trade by supplying over 40% of the heroin, the rest coming from variety of sources. And, from the early 1990s to the present, the Colombians (and later Mexican) cartels started trafficking in high grade heroin and became the main source to the U.S.

@Wiseguy, Do you have a similar report at your disposal for Canada during this time?

Interesting, where did you post that report?

Could you clear up the Asian and Mexican heroin predominated from 1975-1980 then later say they only became dominant in the heroin trade in the late 80s. Did they or did they not eclipsed the LCN in the heroin trade between 1975-80? Hard to believe that to be honest with the rise of Galante, the Rizzutos, the Cuntrera-Caruanas, Bontate and Inzerillo bringing in massive quantities of heroin at that time. With LCN still being the most powerful crime group in the US, why would they allow smaller criminal groups to surpass them in the drug trade?

That doesnt really make sense, I said the same previously in this thread about his numbers..... pertaining to the Americans.. 75-80 are prime Sicilian mafia heroin years, I'm just as confused as you........

But yallact like you dont understand me so......

[CabriniGreen]

@wiseguy

Why is it in the other thread, when I was talking about Sicilian dominance in the drug trade, THESE numbers were invisible to you then?

Why did you give me a list of French Connection traffickers from the period they were " knee deep" in the trade? The 50s and 60s to EARLY 70s?

Like why do you argue they were partners in the trade, then say they were marginalized? How are they marginalized if they are partners? That has never made sense to me.....

How are were they partners, yet marginalized in coke? They can send thousands of kilos to Europe but not NY? Why not?

I even read somewhere the American LCN was pissed the sicilians cut them out the trade.....After they went and opened the front door to NY and Canada...

I'll tell you what, you guys answer me these questions..... And these arnt attacks, these are for real questions we gotta answer moving forward with all this...

1. Why are the Violis even important at all, if not for narcotics trafficking ?

Who says they are important to LCN? You repeatedly state that they have extensive connections, so much so that the NY families would depend on them, but on what source do you base this statement? Not saying they aren't important, but I haven't seen anything to suggest they are as important as you seem to believe.


So you are saying they are unimportant? Dont try so hard to disagree with me, you know they are pretty important in Hamilton. The question is WHY are they important to the Bonnanos, and why is Hamiltion important. Yall seem like you dont like my questions cause they dont have quick, neat, easy answers.

8. Why does every potential leader in Canada either have large scale drug connections, operations, or relations with the Bikers?

Because of the huge profits drugs generate, the fact that their power and influence depends on it, and the fact that prison sentences in Canada are a joke compared to the US so the benefits outweight the risks.

So, why do you disagree about the Violis and their connections. Like, do I REALLY have to post the whole arrest? We all read the shit, Violis man Massamigliano Carfana went to Colombia to secure a 300 kilo load on consignment. Cali got the WHOLE SICILIAN MAFIA a deal for 500 kilo. The Ursinos were bringing in a similar load. So the Violis connects are comparable to at least a Cali or someone of this stature.

I posted that article so you could SEE the power of having a direct tie to Colombia. Not for you to just get offended cause they stated another crime group was doing business with Italians as equals. I shouldn't have to explain WHY having a direct tie to Colombia makes you powerful in cocaine, any more than I would have to explain having ties to Sierra Leone makes you a capable diamond merchant.

[Lupara]

So you are saying they are unimportant?

No, I literally said the opposite:

Who says they are important to LCN? You repeatedly state that they have extensive connections, so much so that the NY families would depend on them, but on what source do you base this statement? Not saying they aren't important, but I haven't seen anything to suggest they are as important as you seem to believe.

Again I wonder what makes you believe they would be so important to the Bonannos, who may very well have their own connections and wouldn't have to depend on the Violis.

Dont try so hard to disagree with me, you know they are pretty important in Hamilton.

I'm not trying anything hard, just wanting to know where you base your assumptions on. Like Wiseguy said, you have already made up your mind before anything has been proven a fact.

The question is WHY are they important to the Bonnanos, and why is Hamiltion important.

Yes that was indeed the question I was asking you.

So, why do you disagree about the Violis and their connections.

I do not necessarily disagree, just trying to put things into perspective.

Not for you to just get offended cause they stated another crime group was doing business with Italians as equals.

I'm not offended at all, you seem to be.

[stubbs]

Hey all, this is my first post over here after lurking. I know a lot of y’all from that other board (*cough*) over the years. Super excellent and interesting discussion so far!

The Violis seem to be super well connected to the Bonannos, but it’s interesting they (Dom) chose the Buffalo flag over Bonanno. We may never know, but my guess is a big reason Dom chose the Buffalo banner because the family is smaller so he could operate with more independence. The articles report he got upped to underboss in like, what, two years?

Part of the fast rise I’d guess is due to Buffalo’s small size, but I’m sure his connections and bloodlines played a major role. Being UB of even a small family like Buffalo allows him to sit down with other family bosses and admins. If he was with the Bonannos, no way he’d ever be more than a capo being in Hamilton. And with the history of how the relationship between Rizzutos and the NY Bonannos collapsed, Violi probably learned it wasn’t worth it to answer to NY.

So, UB of a tiny family is still higher up than a soldier in the Bonannos, even though the Bonannos as a whole have a lot more power. So Violi (in theory) as UB could sit down with a guy like Frank Cali and be on (relatively) equal footing, at least in terms of respect.

My other thought is Todaro Jr might be like a boss in name only. Meaning, he doesnt actually run any rackets (other than pizza, lol), but he still can give out advice, make members, and collect some cash kicked up to him. So Todaro makes Violi his UB, who then (with the rest of Hamilton) gets essentially free reign to operate how they see fit, with the benefit of LCN legitamacy by way of the Buffalo banner. Todaro just has to sit back and collect tribute and do the occasional sit down when needed.

Also, my guess is the majority of the Buffalo family’s power is in Hamilton. Whether that’s 80/20 or 95/5 or whatever, I don’t know. But my guess is in terms of made guys operating on the actual streets of Buffalo, like actually running rackets, has to be no more than 5... 10 guys tops.

[SonnyBlackstein]

My other thought is Todaro Jr might be like a boss in name only. Meaning, he doesnt actually run any rackets (other than pizza, lol), but he still can give out advice, make members, and collect some cash kicked up to him. So Todaro makes Violi his UB, who then (with the rest of Hamilton) gets essentially free reign to operate how they see fit, with the benefit of LCN legitamacy by way of the Buffalo banner. Todaro just has to sit back and collect tribute and do the occasional sit down when needed.

I think this is a good hypothesis and the likely scenario.


Todaro Jnr is likely inactive, regards actually running LCN activity, and acts in a limited fashion, makes members, kept in the loop, gets an envelope but day to day had passed the buck to Violi who could be more aptly be characterized as acting rather than UB. UB in this I suspect = acting. IE running the day to day operations of the family.


All speculation obviously, but makes the most sense to yours.

[Lupara]

My other thought is Todaro Jr might be like a boss in name only. Meaning, he doesnt actually run any rackets (other than pizza, lol), but he still can give out advice, make members, and collect some cash kicked up to him. So Todaro makes Violi his UB, who then (with the rest of Hamilton) gets essentially free reign to operate how they see fit, with the benefit of LCN legitamacy by way of the Buffalo banner. Todaro just has to sit back and collect tribute and do the occasional sit down when needed.

I think this is a good hypothesis and the likely scenario.


Todaro Jnr is likely inactive, regards actually running LCN activity, and acts in a limited fashion, makes members, kept in the loop, gets an envelope but day to day had passed the buck to Violi who could be more aptly be characterized as acting rather than UB. UB in this I suspect = acting. IE running the day to day operations of the family.


All speculation obviously, but makes the most sense to yours.

This has been my viewpoint as well as I've stated earlier in this thread. This POV helps the most to make sense of it all. Todaro being the nominal boss who is semi-retired but still held in high regard and sought for councel while most of the remaining family operations are in Canada, out of reach of the FBI. In this situation the family can still be regarded viable, at least from my standards.

I've often being enjoying your analysis on the other board Stubbs (which I still visit occassionally), so welcome to the board.

[Wiseguy]

Also, my guess is the majority of the Buffalo family’s power is in Hamilton. Whether that’s 80/20 or 95/5 or whatever, I don’t know. But my guess is in terms of made guys operating on the actual streets of Buffalo, like actually running rackets, has to be no more than 5... 10 guys tops.

While I think your theory is plausible, as was discussed earlier in this thread, the majority of the remaining membership is in Buffalo. And that's where most of the cases, few and far between as they've been, have come over the past 20 years. This idea that people have come up with that the power is now on Hamilton or anywhere else in Canada has really no basis.

[NickleCity]

It appears the FBI believed JoeTodaro Jr had been at least acting boss of the Todaro Crime Family since at least 1993– And, they did call it the Todaro Crime Family In 1993. Bothbof thwse tidbits from a Buffalo News Article on telemarketing scams run by the family. That is a long time in the captains chair—if he never stepped down like thought in 2006 to run his Pizza shop.

Joseph Todaro III, the son of the man the FBI identifies as Buffalo's mob boss, Joseph Todaro Jr., was a supervisor at Logik Enterprises, at 496 Elmwood Ave., until four months ago, when the FBI raided other companies.