Lawrence Ricci Murder

[Wiseguy]

Listen to the feds listen to the feds I've read it for years. Then you read how the feds embellish and make things bigger than they are. Can everyone agree it's not black and white for once?

I don't think anyone is saying it's black and white or that the feds are infallible. But they are the most solid and consistent source of correct info when it comes to this secret society we all follow. And time has shown, again and again, that those who consider them just another source that can be readily dismissed at will end up being wrong the vast majority of the time.

So is there a NJ Overall Capo/Boss or is that something that the feds have made up time and time again?

Imo it's all wiki bs but I know dick about anything post 1960 when it comes to the NY/NJ mob compared to most of you guys and above all the feds.

Like I said, maybe that was the case with guys like Moretti and Catena going way back. But I don't recall off the top of my head anything official saying that. Or about Fiumara for that matter. So I'm not sure that's something the feds have "made up time and again." I think a Wiki article said that about Bobby Manna at one point. As for Palumbo, I don't think his role was what some have attributed to these other guys, i.e. the top guy in Jersey who all the other Jersey captains answer to.

[DPG]

Listen to the feds listen to the feds I've read it for years. Then you read how the feds embellish and make things bigger than they are. Can everyone agree it's not black and white for once?

I don't think anyone is saying it's black and white or that the feds are infallible. But they are the most solid and consistent source of correct info when it comes to this secret society we all follow. And time has shown, again and again, that those who consider them just another source that can be readily dismissed at will end up being wrong the vast majority of the time.

So is there a NJ Overall Capo/Boss or is that something that the feds have made up time and time again?

Imo it's all wiki bs but I know dick about anything post 1960 when it comes to the NY/NJ mob compared to most of you guys and above all the feds.

Like I said, maybe that was the case with guys like Moretti and Catena going way back. But I don't recall off the top of my head anything official saying that. Or about Fiumara for that matter. So I'm not sure that's something the feds have "made up time and again." I think a Wiki article said that about Bobby Manna at one point. As for Palumbo, I don't think his role was what some have attributed to these other guys, i.e. the top guy in Jersey who all the other Jersey captains answer to.

So who are the sources for these articles? I just figured they came from indictments.

[Rocco]

What was the relationship between Anthony Palumbo and Tino shortly before Tino's death? Palumbo gets Tino's crew in 06 if I recall correctly. Palumbo has a roots in NJ, he is the nephew of Andy Gerado... makes me think he was involved in the Ricci murder in some capacity.

Does anyone know when Depiro was made? Perhaps he gets his button for clipping Ricci. He was the only made guy involved in the 2011 Christmas kickback bust that I remember.

The Tino/NJ Waterfront crew is super interesting... one of the more secretive crews and probably one of the more profitable. They have a known associate (Harold Daggett) as president of the ILA-Union.

If palumbo got tino’s crew, then what position did Fiumara take?

2 different crews in NJ. Gerardo's old crew and tino's crew. Gerardo operated out of North Newark(forrest hills section off Bloomfield ave). and Tino's guys had clubs DownNeck close to the Port and Lodi back in the days Palumbo is really a NY guy and most of his rackets are NY based. Gerardo's original crew before his retirement is pretty much dead as most of the key members have died(Peewee etc) or live n FL playing shuffleboard if alive. If you compared Gerardo's crew shortly before he retired and the guys in Palumbo's crew you will see its pretty much a totally different crews. Most of the guys in Palumbo's crew are active in NY. I think there was allot of attention to that because Palumbo was meeting guys in NJ at Gerardo's house while he was in FL.

[Wiseguy]

So who are the sources for these articles? I just figured they came from indictments.

Other than a Wiki article I recall seeing one time, which probably wasn't even sourced, I'm not sure where the idea came from (officially anyway) of there being a top captain in Jersey.

What was the relationship between Anthony Palumbo and Tino shortly before Tino's death? Palumbo gets Tino's crew in 06 if I recall correctly. Palumbo has a roots in NJ, he is the nephew of Andy Gerado... makes me think he was involved in the Ricci murder in some capacity.

Does anyone know when Depiro was made? Perhaps he gets his button for clipping Ricci. He was the only made guy involved in the 2011 Christmas kickback bust that I remember.

The Tino/NJ Waterfront crew is super interesting... one of the more secretive crews and probably one of the more profitable. They have a known associate (Harold Daggett) as president of the ILA-Union.

If palumbo got tino’s crew, then what position did Fiumara take?

2 different crews in NJ. Gerardo's old crew and tino's crew. Gerardo operated out of North Newark(forrest hills section off Bloomfield ave). and Tino's guys had clubs DownNeck close to the Port and Lodi back in the days Palumbo is really a NY guy and most of his rackets are NY based. Gerardo's original crew before his retirement is pretty much dead as most of the key members have died(Peewee etc) or live n FL playing shuffleboard if alive. If you compared Gerardo's crew shortly before he retired and the guys in Palumbo's crew you will see its pretty much a totally different crews. Most of the guys in Palumbo's crew are active in NY. I think there was allot of attention to that because Palumbo was meeting guys in NJ at Gerardo's house while he was in FL.

In retrospect, it seems the idea of Palumbo taking over one of the Jersey crews seems to be largely speculative.

Officially speaking, what we have on him is that sentencing memo that talks about him being NY-based, as well as his indictment that talks about Leo having him oversee the Jersey crews, which again is open to interpretation on what that exactly entailed.

[B.]

Like HK said, Moretti seems to have been the family's sole Jersey captain pre-1950s, but on the Valachi chart from the 1960s, John DeNoia is listed as a deceased former captain. DeNoia died in the late 1940s and ran Duke's restaurant in NJ, the hangout for major figures from the Genovese and other families, including Moretti. DeNoia associated closely with Moretti and I don't know of any other info that identifies him as a captain, but it seems most likely to me that if anything he was the acting captain for Moretti when Moretti helped with the administration.

Either early on this board or on the last BH board, HK and I went through and tried to identify made Genovese members under Moretti in Jersey pre-1940s. Valachi claimed Moretti's crew was an "army" and I believe he mentioned him having 40 guys under him. Not sure if that is made members, but it seems unlikely to me that the Genovese had that many Jersey members before the 1940s. Moretti's crew may have originally been NYC-based, too. Angelo Bruno's comments about the Newark family make it sound like the five families didn't have a huge presence in Jersey while Newark was still active but he wasn't made then and knowledge is limited.

Boiardo, Catena, DeCarlo, and others were all seasoned veterans by the time they got made in the mid-1940s, which is pretty telling in my opinion. We know Boiardo was an independent early on who was in conflict with the Sicilian Jersey family (one conflict with Badami is mentioned by Valachi, and a CI mentioned another conflict with a group comprised of the Lombardinos and Pizzolatos, though it's not clear if that was separate from the Badami issue). A couple pieces of info point to Catena being an associate of the Jersey family in the 1930s, plus he worked closely with important Jews. Makes sense that they weren't made earlier on as they may not have even been Genovese associates in the 1920s/30s. Not sure DeCarlo's story.

I've never seen anything on exactly when Catena, Boiardo, and DeCarlo were promoted. Going off memory (which itself could be based on speculation), I believe Boiardo and Catena were promoted when Moretti was killed, with DeCarlo promoted later. I've never seen anything that points to any of them being the "top" captain in Jersey between 1951 and 1957, though of course Catena became the top leader in Jersey when he was promoted to underboss. When he became acting boss years later there is info about him focusing mainly on Jersey through his brother Gene, while acting underboss Eboli was responsible for handling the day-to-day operations in NYC. Beyond the fact that Gene Catena was acting as a liaison for his brother which made him a "defacto" leader, it doesn't seem to me that any of the captains were technically above each other.

Manna was an NJ-based soldier in the Strollo/Eboli crew, so he is separate from the other Jersey crews. By the time he was consigliere, he was staying often if not primarily at his apartment in NYC and seems to have been as much a power in the NYC wing of the family as Jersey. I've never seen anything about him being a captain but unless someone has other info, I would guess if Manna was ever a captain it was over some element or offshoot of the old Strollo/Eboli crew.

After that I haven't really followed the Genovese Jersey crews. Fiumara was a powerful figure no doubt but he also seems like someone who has a bit of a mythology following him and I wouldn't assume he was the top leader of all Jersey crews aside from the years he was part of the ruling panel, which like the earlier examples doesn't really count since naturally an administration member would have influence over captains.

[Rocco]

So who are the sources for these articles? I just figured they came from indictments.

Other than a Wiki article I recall seeing one time, which probably wasn't even sourced, I'm not sure where the idea came from (officially anyway) of there being a top captain in Jersey.

What was the relationship between Anthony Palumbo and Tino shortly before Tino's death? Palumbo gets Tino's crew in 06 if I recall correctly. Palumbo has a roots in NJ, he is the nephew of Andy Gerado... makes me think he was involved in the Ricci murder in some capacity.

Does anyone know when Depiro was made? Perhaps he gets his button for clipping Ricci. He was the only made guy involved in the 2011 Christmas kickback bust that I remember.

The Tino/NJ Waterfront crew is super interesting... one of the more secretive crews and probably one of the more profitable. They have a known associate (Harold Daggett) as president of the ILA-Union.

If palumbo got tino’s crew, then what position did Fiumara take?

2 different crews in NJ. Gerardo's old crew and tino's crew. Gerardo operated out of North Newark(forrest hills section off Bloomfield ave). and Tino's guys had clubs DownNeck close to the Port and Lodi back in the days Palumbo is really a NY guy and most of his rackets are NY based. Gerardo's original crew before his retirement is pretty much dead as most of the key members have died(Peewee etc) or live n FL playing shuffleboard if alive. If you compared Gerardo's crew shortly before he retired and the guys in Palumbo's crew you will see its pretty much a totally different crews. Most of the guys in Palumbo's crew are active in NY. I think there was allot of attention to that because Palumbo was meeting guys in NJ at Gerardo's house while he was in FL.

In retrospect, it seems the idea of Palumbo taking over one of the Jersey crews seems to be largely speculative.

Officially speaking, what we have on him is that sentencing memo that talks about him being NY-based, as well as his indictment that talks about Leo having him oversee the Jersey crews, which again is open to interpretation on what that exactly entailed.

Have no idea. Only thing I know is that Gerardo's old crew and Palumbo's are not the same people. DeVita is who assumed control of what remained of Gerardo's crew after Pee Wee DePhillips was indicted and later died. PeeWee was Andy's guy when he retired to FL but he had health issues and was under indictment and house arrest etc. And as far as I know DeVita has ran what was left of that crew since the early 90s. But I don't know if the crew died off or not.

[DPG]

Anyway, as the article says, the Genovese operation, which controlled two offshore wirerooms, accepted bets from the Lucchese, Bonanno, and Gambino families.

This seems pretty amazing to me, it basically have them the most powerful gambling operation in oc history, right? Is there a link to the indictment? Is there any specific reason the Colombos were not involved?

Also reading over all the posts what makes most sense to me is what HK said. How a Jersey based member being a captain and panel member at the same time would basically make them 'in charge of all Jersey operations.' But just because it was this way while a ruling panel was in charge doesn't mean there is always someone in that position. The feds and state le repeating it more than once does make me wonder though. It may just be them wanting to continue the 'when one dies or goes to jail, 10 are waiting to take his place's theme. If they can send one person to jail for being in this particular position then they would love to send the next guy up even if it isn't the reality of the situation. Anyway theres my two cents on the matter.

When I first joined rd(and was a useless ignorant paste of space poster) I attempted to put together a NJ fraction boss chart for all the five families. Being that all I was using was info straight from wiki and didn't have any of the reports used in this thread it was basically shut down by one or two posters with more knowledge than me. Sure wish it would have spawned this thread instead.

[Wiseguy]

Anyway, as the article says, the Genovese operation, which controlled two offshore wirerooms, accepted bets from the Lucchese, Bonanno, and Gambino families.

This seems pretty amazing to me, it basically have them the most powerful gambling operation in oc history, right? Is there a link to the indictment? Is there any specific reason the Colombos were not involved?

It was probably due to the Genovese having the largest presence and bookmaking operations in New Jersey and being in a position to handle action from at least some of the Jersey gambling operations from other families. I imagine the Colombos weren't involved because they really haven't had much of a presence in Jersey since early-to-mid 1990s.

I have never seen an actual indictment for the case. A few articles here and there is all.