Gene Gotti, brother of mob boss John, finishes 29-year prison term this month

[Wiseguy]

The end is near, even in NY.

Define "near." They were saying the NY families would be finished in "5 or 10 years" 25 years ago.

1. Italian immigrants are not flooding the U.S. in record numbers searching for a better life

This certainly goes to attrition, the biggest killer of mob families. But the NY families have proven the ability to remain stable in terms of membership for years.

2. Italian "enclaves or neighborhoods" do not exist anymore for recruiting purposes

While I'm one of the biggest believers in the attrition effect, this particular factor is way over blown in my opinion. At least as far as the NY families are concerned, they expanded beyond these Italian enclaves decades ago and have operated just as effectively in the suburbs. In fact, that's one thing that set the LCN apart from many other crime groups - operating more widely, in both the upper and underworlds of society.

3. Most guys today will flip...RICO is a scary motherfucker for most of these guys

That's simply not true. The ones that flip get the press, of course, but even today they are still very much in the minority.

4. Gambling is practically legal in most states/online/offshore gambling

And this has been the case for years now.

The numbers racket lasted longer in New York/New Jersey than other places but appears to be dwindling there too. Though that may be due more to generational shift than the state lottery.

It remains to be seen what long-term effect legalized sports betting will have on that most core of mob rackets.

5. Practically anybody can go to a bank and get a loan today

True. More accessible credit and other factors definitely narrowed the pool of mob loanshark customers, i.e. mostly to gamblers in debt, drug dealers, etc.

But we continue to see loansharking charges in most mob indictments. I wouldn't be surprised if most mob loansharking today comes in the form of a gambling debt being changed to a "loan" where the debtor has to make weekly vig payments. My guess is that's where most of the loansharking-related extortion charges come from.

6. Craig's list provides nice prostitutes I am told

Not anymore. They, along with the Backpage site, were shut down by the feds. If you recall, one Gambino crew was using them to advertise. Of course, there are no doubt plenty of other sites still operating but prostitution hasn't been an LCN staple for decades.

[Rocco]

I heard Gene has a job lined up at Trader Joes once he hits the half way house.....

[JCB1977]

Good article but the mob’s downfall is a bit exaggerated in the article. Lcn is in a better state now than what it was in 20 years ago. There’s plenty of rackets on the street.

Not even close. The last 20 years have been a steady and sharp downfall which will only continue. The last standing groups will be the New York 5 who are almost a shadow of themselves right now. It's a natural progression. Anyone wanting to join LCN today in 2018 is delusional and out of their mind.

If history has shown us anything...

1. Italian immigrants are not flooding the U.S. in record numbers searching for a better life
2. Italian "enclaves or neighborhoods" do not exist anymore for recruiting purposes
3. Most guys today will flip...RICO is a scary motherfucker for most of these guys
4. Gambling is practically legal in most states/online/offshore gambling
5. Practically anybody can go to a bank and get a loan today
6. Craig's list provides nice prostitutes I am told
7. Wiretapping and other technology have crippled what these guys can talk about

etc etc etc

Loansharking still profits good cash. Look at bonanno actin capo ronnie g’s indictment. Also, thier r still plenty of primarily Italian neighborhoods in staten island and in central jersey.

Italian Immigrant Enclaves are no more. The Bronx turned Albanian and Little Italy in Manhattan lost more than half its size. Bath Ave and Bensonhurst aren't flooded with Italian immigrants anymore...Not even close.

[JCB1977]

The end is near, even in NY.

Define "near." They were saying the NY families would be finished in "5 or 10 years" 25 years ago.

The next 20-25 years

1. Italian immigrants are not flooding the U.S. in record numbers searching for a better life

This certainly goes to attrition, the biggest killer of mob families. But the NY families have proven the ability to remain stable in terms of membership for years.

Nowhere close to the way it was

2. Italian "enclaves or neighborhoods" do not exist anymore for recruiting purposes

While I'm one of the biggest believers in the attrition effect, this particular factor is way over blown in my opinion. At least as far as the NY families are concerned, they expanded beyond these Italian enclaves decades ago and have operated just as effectively in the suburbs. In fact, that's one thing that set the LCN apart from many other crime groups - operating more widely, in both the upper and underworlds of society.

Sure they moved to the Burbs but the guys they get today are not even close to the men from the 1920's-1940's

3. Most guys today will flip...RICO is a scary motherfucker for most of these guys

That's simply not true. The ones that flip get the press, of course, but even today they are still very much in the minority.

The one's that flip today are bringing down the house of cards and many others with them. The one's flipping are having more of an impact or domino effect

4. Gambling is practically legal in most states/online/offshore gambling

And this has been the case for years now.

The numbers racket lasted longer in New York/New Jersey than other places but appears to be dwindling there too. Though that may be due more to generational shift than the state lottery.

It remains to be seen what long-term effect legalized sports betting will have on that most core of mob rackets.

Agreed

5. Practically anybody can go to a bank and get a loan today

True. More accessible credit and other factors definitely narrowed the pool of mob loanshark customers, i.e. mostly to gamblers in debt, drug dealers, etc.

But we continue to see loansharking charges in most mob indictments. I wouldn't be surprised if most mob loansharking today comes in the form of a gambling debt being changed to a "loan" where the debtor has to make weekly vig payments. My guess is that's where most of the loansharking-related extortion charges come from.

Agreed

6. Craig's list provides nice prostitutes I am told

Not anymore. They, along with the Backpage site, were shut down by the feds. If you recall, one Gambino crew was using them to advertise. Of course, there are no doubt plenty of other sites still operating but prostitution hasn't been an LCN staple for decades.

Agreed, my point was (via using Craig's list as an example) that websites like fuckbuddy.com or Ashley Madison provide some putang for those seeking it. They don't need whorehouses anymore. Do some still exist, sure. Not like it once was.

[JCB1977]

Good article but the mob’s downfall is a bit exaggerated in the article. Lcn is in a better state now than what it was in 20 years ago. There’s plenty of rackets on the street.

Not even close. The last 20 years have been a steady and sharp downfall which will only continue. The last standing groups will be the New York 5 who are almost a shadow of themselves right now. It's a natural progression. Anyone wanting to join LCN today in 2018 is delusional and out of their mind.

If history has shown us anything...

1. Italian immigrants are not flooding the U.S. in record numbers searching for a better life
2. Italian "enclaves or neighborhoods" do not exist anymore for recruiting purposes
3. Most guys today will flip...RICO is a scary motherfucker for most of these guys
4. Gambling is practically legal in most states/online/offshore gambling
5. Practically anybody can go to a bank and get a loan today
6. Craig's list provides nice prostitutes I am told
7. Wiretapping and other technology have crippled what these guys can talk about

etc etc etc

Loansharking still profits good cash. Look at bonanno actin capo ronnie g’s indictment. Also, thier r still plenty of primarily Italian neighborhoods in staten island and in central jersey.

I understand what you are saying now...However, when you say Italian neighborhoods, not like before where immigrants came to NYC and had 6 kids living in a tiny apartment in a tenement building. Where the streets had only Italian speaking residents and every corner a bunch of immigrant kids trying to find their way in America. America has shown that any person of race or color can be successful. Anybody could go to college today or tech school or have an apprenticeship. Back then when my family came over, Italians couldn't get honest work in Steel Mills or other manufacturing companies for the mere reason they were Italian. There are more options today for Italians.

[Wiseguy]

I understand what you are saying now...However, when you say Italian neighborhoods, not like before where immigrants came to NYC and had 6 kids living in a tiny apartment in a tenement building. Where the streets had only Italian speaking residents and every corner a bunch of immigrant kids trying to find their way in America. America has shown that any person of race or color can be successful. Anybody could go to college today or tech school or have an apprenticeship. Back then when my family came over, Italians couldn't get honest work in Steel Mills or other manufacturing companies for the mere reason they were Italian. There are more options today for Italians.

I agree in the general sense and not over-focusing on Italian neighborhoods. Rather, the overall assimilation of Italian-Americans into mainstream society, of which maybe Italian enclaves disappearing is only the result. The has attrition-by-assimilation has led to declines in both quantity and quality of membership, and has been more responsible for killing off crime families than anything else. Law enforcement has only helped the process along. That said, the predictions of the mob's demise we saw in the past (by even the most knowledgeable sources) proved premature in many cases.

[Confederate]

I understand what you are saying now...However, when you say Italian neighborhoods, not like before where immigrants came to NYC and had 6 kids living in a tiny apartment in a tenement building. Where the streets had only Italian speaking residents and every corner a bunch of immigrant kids trying to find their way in America. America has shown that any person of race or color can be successful. Anybody could go to college today or tech school or have an apprenticeship. Back then when my family came over, Italians couldn't get honest work in Steel Mills or other manufacturing companies for the mere reason they were Italian. There are more options today for Italians.

I agree in the general sense and not over-focusing on Italian neighborhoods. Rather, the overall assimilation of Italian-Americans into mainstream society, of which maybe Italian enclaves disappearing is only the result. The has attrition-by-assimilation has led to declines in both quantity and quality of membership, and has been more responsible for killing off crime families than anything else. Law enforcement has only helped the process along. That said, the predictions of the mob's demise we saw in the past (by even the most knowledgeable sources) proved premature in many cases.

Again, you have to seperate the New York 5 from the other Families OUTSIDE of New York. The predictions about those Families (outside New York) were right on. New York will just take more time because of sheer numbers but eventually I would not be surprised if New Yok ended up being the New York 2 meaning the Genovese's and the Gambino's. This will take much longer.

[gohnjotti]

3. Most guys today will flip...RICO is a scary motherfucker for most of these guys

Most inaccurate thing I've read all day.

[Rat]

I feel like mobsters today are probably less likely to flip than they were two decades ago, most mob guys today probably believe and already accepted that they will one day be serving life behind bars.

[Chucky]

I feel like mobsters today are probably less likely to flip than they were two decades ago, most mob guys today probably believe and already accepted that they will one day be serving life behind bars.

They're not going to be doing life because barely anyone gets clipped

[Moscone65]

The end is near, even in NY.

Define "near." They were saying the NY families would be finished in "5 or 10 years" 25 years ago.

People like to say that all the time. Since the Gotti days self proclaimed "mob experts" have said that LCN is done for, it's all Russians, Mexicans ect now. Baloney. NYC is an LCN stronghold and will likely be for along long time. These guys have always adapted to the times since their appearance over 100 years ago.

[Moscone65]

Pardon for my post appearing in the yellow box still, I am a new user to these forums.

[Rat]

The end is near, even in NY.

Define "near." They were saying the NY families would be finished in "5 or 10 years" 25 years ago.

People like to say that all the time. Since the Gotti days self proclaimed "mob experts" have said that LCN is done for, it's all Russians, Mexicans ect now. Baloney. NYC is an LCN stronghold and will likely be for along long time. These guys have always adapted to the times since their appearance over 100 years ago.

I always felt the Russian presence in American was overblown and while LCN may not be as dominant as the cartels they are still a top 5 OCG in America imo.

[JCB1977]

I understand what you are saying now...However, when you say Italian neighborhoods, not like before where immigrants came to NYC and had 6 kids living in a tiny apartment in a tenement building. Where the streets had only Italian speaking residents and every corner a bunch of immigrant kids trying to find their way in America. America has shown that any person of race or color can be successful. Anybody could go to college today or tech school or have an apprenticeship. Back then when my family came over, Italians couldn't get honest work in Steel Mills or other manufacturing companies for the mere reason they were Italian. There are more options today for Italians.

I agree in the general sense and not over-focusing on Italian neighborhoods. Rather, the overall assimilation of Italian-Americans into mainstream society, of which maybe Italian enclaves disappearing is only the result. The has attrition-by-assimilation has led to declines in both quantity and quality of membership, and has been more responsible for killing off crime families than anything else. Law enforcement has only helped the process along. That said, the predictions of the mob's demise we saw in the past (by even the most knowledgeable sources) proved premature in many cases.

Again, you have to seperate the New York 5 from the other Families OUTSIDE of New York. The predictions about those Families (outside New York) were right on. New York will just take more time because of sheer numbers but eventually I would not be surprised if New Yok ended up being the New York 2 meaning the Genovese's and the Gambino's. This will take much longer.

Or eventually consolidate to to form one strong family like the outfit, totally change their business model. Won’t be done at this day in age. Crime will always be there but LCN as we’ve known it is going by the wayside.

[JCB1977]

The end is near, even in NY.

Define "near." They were saying the NY families would be finished in "5 or 10 years" 25 years ago.

People like to say that all the time. Since the Gotti days self proclaimed "mob experts" have said that LCN is done for, it's all Russians, Mexicans ect now. Baloney. NYC is an LCN stronghold and will likely be for along long time. These guys have always adapted to the times since their appearance over 100 years ago.

I always felt the Russian presence in American was overblown and while LCN may not be as dominant as the cartels they are still a top 5 OCG in America imo.

Here are some imminent threats in the U.S according to the FBI

http://www.businessinsider.com/dangerou ... bi-2011-11