I almost hate to say it....

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

Agree 100%. It is true we may never know the real or exact truth
concerning this West Side topic. That said, the info put forth by the most
knowledgeable (non OC members) has consistantly stated that
Lombardo was the boss hidden from view, and the others were
his front. Then, Chin used the same strategy to insulate himself.

Correction: Fish Cafaro said the same thing and he was an OC member.

[HairyKnuckles]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

Capeci, Raab etc based their belief on what Cafaro said. And on this particular topic, front boss and all that crap, Cafaro lied or twisted the truth to make FBI look good. And just like Lenehan, Cafaro may have been an East Harlem fan boy, proud of what mobsters that neighborhood had produced.

[Frank]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

Capeci, Raab etc based their belief on what Cafaro said. And on this particular topic, front boss and all that crap, Cafaro lied or twisted the truth to make FBI look good. And just like Lenehan, Cafaro may have been an East Harlem fan boy, proud of what mobsters that neighborhood had produced.

Also the Lombardo as boss also included the time period before Genovese died. When I first started looking into lcn leadership history Lombardo was listed as acting boss from around 64 till 69. Which I thought was correct till I joined this forum. Now I know it was Catena as acting boss and Eboli as acting Underboss. Also I've seen where some have said he was acting boss before 64 too, all the way back to when Vito was imprisoned. Now it appears that he was only Official Boss for a couple of months and on a ruling panel for a few months. Maybe on a ruling panel few a short time in the early 70s.

[Angelo Santino]

Interesting and enlightening thread, gentlemen.

[Cheech]

Its funny...we can do a chart for the Bonnanos at almost any time yet the West Side you don't even know some basics. who ordered ralph dead? who was boss, consig, underboss for most of the 70s and 80s is questionable. west side is a big guess....

[Wiseguy]

Its funny...we can do a chart for the Bonnanos at almost any time yet the West Side you don't even know some basics. who ordered ralph dead? who was boss, consig, underboss for most of the 70s and 80s is questionable. west side is a big guess....

How were the 1980s questionable?

[HairyKnuckles]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

Capeci, Raab etc based their belief on what Cafaro said. And on this particular topic, front boss and all that crap, Cafaro lied or twisted the truth to make FBI look good. And just like Lenehan, Cafaro may have been an East Harlem fan boy, proud of what mobsters that neighborhood had produced.

Also the Lombardo as boss also included the time period before Genovese died. When I first started looking into lcn leadership history Lombardo was listed as acting boss from around 64 till 69. Which I thought was correct till I joined this forum. Now I know it was Catena as acting boss and Eboli as acting Underboss. Also I've seen where some have said he was acting boss before 64 too, all the way back to when Vito was imprisoned. Now it appears that he was only Official Boss for a couple of months and on a ruling panel for a few months. Maybe on a ruling panel few a short time in the early 70s.

Correct. I used to think too that Lombardo was some kind of superboss who secretly ruled his Family, using front bosses in a way that nobody, outside the Family or inside, knew he was the one at top. That´s all exciting in fiction. In reality though, that doesn´t work. He would have to have had a power base consisting of a large group of followers ready to enforce his way if the front boss said no to him. And the bigger the group, the bigger the risk of getting exposed, first to all the members and secondly to LE through informants.

No doubt, Lombardo was powerful and like many of the captains in that Family, he had some pull. But he was also absent a great deal of time in the 1970s. He suffered from a severe stroke in 1975 which kept him sidelined for several years. He was in no capacity to rule the Genovese Family. It seems to me that Lombardo was acting boss or co-boss, right after the Tommy Ryan murder, but sometime before October 1972, Tieri took over. First as acting boss and then as official boss when Catena decided to step down. All evidence, going through the files, seems to point that way,

[Cheech]

Its funny...we can do a chart for the Bonnanos at almost any time yet the West Side you don't even know some basics. who ordered ralph dead? who was boss, consig, underboss for most of the 70s and 80s is questionable. west side is a big guess....

How were the 1980s questionable?

maybe not 80s but you get my point

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Its funny...we can do a chart for the Bonnanos at almost any time yet the West Side you don't even know some basics. who ordered ralph dead? who was boss, consig, underboss for most of the 70s and 80s is questionable. west side is a big guess....

How were the 1980s questionable?

maybe not 80s but you get my point

I get your point. The Family is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

[Frank]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

Capeci, Raab etc based their belief on what Cafaro said. And on this particular topic, front boss and all that crap, Cafaro lied or twisted the truth to make FBI look good. And just like Lenehan, Cafaro may have been an East Harlem fan boy, proud of what mobsters that neighborhood had produced.

Also the Lombardo as boss also included the time period before Genovese died. When I first started looking into lcn leadership history Lombardo was listed as acting boss from around 64 till 69. Which I thought was correct till I joined this forum. Now I know it was Catena as acting boss and Eboli as acting Underboss. Also I've seen where some have said he was acting boss before 64 too, all the way back to when Vito was imprisoned. Now it appears that he was only Official Boss for a couple of months and on a ruling panel for a few months. Maybe on a ruling panel few a short time in the early 70s.

Correct. I used to think too that Lombardo was some kind of superboss who secretly ruled his Family, using front bosses in a way that nobody, outside the Family or inside, knew he was the one at top. That´s all exciting in fiction. In reality though, that doesn´t work. He would have to have had a power base consisting of a large group of followers ready to enforce his way if the front boss said no to him. And the bigger the group, the bigger the risk of getting exposed, first to all the members and secondly to LE through informants.

No doubt, Lombardo was powerful and like many of the captains in that Family, he had some pull. But he was also absent a great deal of time in the 1970s. He suffered from a severe stroke in 1975 which kept him sidelined for several years. He was in no capacity to rule the Genovese Family. It seems to me that Lombardo was acting boss or co-boss, right after the Tommy Ryan murder, but sometime before October 1972, Tieri took over. First as acting boss and then as official boss when Catena decided to step down. All evidence, going through the files, seems to point that way,

Don't worry Hairy, I believe in your your findings.

[Dwalin2014]

But if Tieri took over as official boss, then at the time of the Bruno murder, was he still in charge or was Gigante? I mean, was Gigante reporting to Tieri at the time?

[PaddyWhack]

In the back of my mind I always wondered if the Genovese with the Chicago link that Genovese used the same structure style as Chicago with only the top 3-4 guys knowing how it works and who has final say etc....heavily insulated.
It seems like these two families that are inside the U.S that has researchers etc asking whose on 1st when it comes to who is the top dog...especially the time period ..

[Wiseguy]

But if Tieri took over as official boss, then at the time of the Bruno murder, was he still in charge or was Gigante? I mean, was Gigante reporting to Tieri at the time?

1980-1981 is tricky simply because it was a time of transition in the leadership of the family. Bruno was killed in March 1980. Tieri, who was in very bad health, was convicted in November 1980 and died in March 1981. Salerno had his stroke in January 1981.

We have the account of Tieri at the Commission meeting supposedly claiming no involvement in the plot to kill Bruno. By most accounts, it was people close to Gigante who carried out the Caponigro murder.

If you subscribe to Tieri ever being the official boss, he would have still been it at the time of the Bruno murder. Though how much he was actually running things at that point is questionable.

We have that account of Savino being called to a meeting with Tieri, Gigante, and Salerno (at least a few years earlier, late 1970s I think) and he said Gigante took the lead in questioning him.

In any event, things start to clear up in 1981 when Gigante took control as official boss. The question isn't if he had that position previously but if Lombardo, at least technically, still did.

[JIGGS]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

That specific notion that Funzi was a "front" for Lombardo in the 1970s came out in the last 10-15 years. There was never an issue before that. Lombardo was only ever cited to be boss by the feds in the early '80s. Fish Cafaro is who expressed Dr. Phil was the boss of the Lombardo family. But he had also been outed as being manipulative with the truth, as per Barone. Outside of CI's citing Ben as the power in theb'60 or '70s, Phil Lombardo is only ever indirectly acknowledged as Tony Salerno's superior on the bug with the two Tony's. But its in the context of the time. It doesn't mean Funzi was doing what Fat Tony Soprano was doing from '81-'86. Speculation is still speculation.

Is there a specific article you can cite where Jean Capeci or Rabbi Shlomo from the failing New York Times definitively expressed Ben Turpin was definitely the official boss and Tieri was acting for him? Specifically?

Law Enforcement has continued to update and alter its narrative ever since J. Edgar Hoover stopped cumming. Yet some clown who gets off on being up in arms over every little fucking thing imaginable on a forum (Santino Oppenheimer) is arguing that an OC Journalist (ScottD) shouldn't do that. Or take umbrage because he won't reveal a source. LE don't reveal their sources. Jerry Garcia don't fucking reveal who tells him what on Guinealandnews.com. But that's where the "facts" come from.

We should be able to express any goddamn notion or scenario we want within reason and without some big mouth, with nothing to offer save for cheering or jeering every post, chiming in and thumping his chest over a speculative historical timeline furthered by Wikiguys. Nobody has this story figured out exactly. So the bitching over something else being offered that goes against the precious fucking agreed upon historical timeline needs to die down a notch or 10. Or pony up the Winning numbers and be useful, if they have it all figured out.

JIGGS

[JIGGS]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

Capeci, Raab etc based their belief on what Cafaro said. And on this particular topic, front boss and all that crap, Cafaro lied or twisted the truth to make FBI look good. And just like Lenehan, Cafaro may have been an East Harlem fan boy, proud of what mobsters that neighborhood had produced.

ZING!...

JIGGS