I almost hate to say it....

[Hailbritain]

Back to Genovese lineage chart. With Catena acting for Costello in 1956, it's no wonder Genovese was pissed at Costello, also I assume Vito was passed over as acting boss in early 50,s when Costello did some short stints in jail.

Also , wasn’t joe zito acting Genovese underboss for a time under gigante ?? He’s not on the lineage chart

I remember I brought that up and someone said that was not true. Remember at that time there was a leadership panel.

Capeci stated zito was acting underboss in one of his columns

Not sure about the acting underboss thing but Capeci identified Zito as a captain in a 1991 column.

I defo remember capeci stating he was acting underboss in one of his columns

[Pogo The Clown]

I don't recall him writing that. He described Ztio as a top Soldier who passed messages from Benny Mangano. Jay Ambler took that to mean Acting UnderBoss and put it on his website which then spread to the forums and later on to Wikipedia ad other mob sites. Zito was indicted as a Soldier in the big 2001 Genovese bust.


Pogo

[Hailbritain]

I don't recall him writing that. He described Ztio as a top Soldier who passed messages from Benny Mangano. Jay Ambler took that to mean Acting UnderBoss and put it on his website which then spread to the forums and later on to Wikipedia ad other mob sites. Zito was indicted as a Soldier in the big 2001 Genovese bust.


Pogo

Yeah pogo . I’ve defo seen it stated somewhere , I Defo remember capeci saying that zito had more power as a soldier than most Genovese captains due to his closeness to gigante

[Frank]

I don't recall him writing that. He described Ztio as a top Soldier who passed messages from Benny Mangano. Jay Ambler took that to mean Acting UnderBoss and put it on his website which then spread to the forums and later on to Wikipedia ad other mob sites. Zito was indicted as a Soldier in the big 2001 Genovese bust.


Pogo

Yes it must of been Pogo or Wiseguy who posted that he wasn't underboss, but a high ranking soldier who was a messenger for Mangano. Remember at the time there was no acting underboss or consgliere, just a ruling panel. Larry Dentico was misidentified as acting Consigliere and some charts misidentified Barbato as acting underboss.

[Pogo The Clown]

Larry Dentico was misidentified as acting Consigliere and some charts misidentified Barbato as acting underboss.

The Barbato thing also came from Jay Ambler I believe for similar reasons as Zito. The Dentico one came from a Jersey OC report from 2004.


Pogo

[Frank]

Larry Dentico was misidentified as acting Consigliere and some charts misidentified Barbato as acting underboss.

The Barbato thing also came from Jay Ambler I believe for similar reasons as Zito. The Dentico one came from a Jersey OC report from 2004.


Pogo

Yes I remember you posting that info., because I had the same question about Zito about 3 months ago.

[Frank]

And thank you Pogo for straightening alot of things out concerning that time period of the Genovese.

[chin_gigante]

When Al D'Arco got made into the Lucheses he claims to have been told the identities of the bosses of each of the five families (he identifies Gigante as Genovese boss at the time he was inducted). Do any such accounts exist in the 1970s? It could help to clear up at least the boss spot and could confirm Tieri's role as official boss. If that is the case then Lombardo could function as an influential captain (obviously excluding the period of his stroke) in the same way that Carmine Persico is frequently misidentified as the official Colombo boss when in reality he likely only got the title after Joe C died in 78 or when he was released from prison

[JIGGS]

You wrote "You are rewriting history and when asked for evidence deny to provide." That sounds like an attack on Scott.

Sorry, thats bullshit. Youre seeing things which werent there. Both claims in the above statement are without prejudice.
A) 'You are rewriting history'
That Lombardo was shelved is a new and not insignificant claim which to my knowledge contradicts the known historical timeline.
Changing that is literally, rewriting history.
B) 'when asked for evidence, deny to provide'
This requires little explanation. I asked for corroboration and Scott chose to withheld.

It is "new" for you. But this claim you are referring to had been expressed years ago on the Real Deal Forum by a poster who, love him or hate him, spent a good part of his life rubbing elbows with 'Jersey' folk. Maybe he is the source? Or maybe not. The point is that the known historical timeline is also bullshit. No one, including the feds then or now, have the West Side figured out. The feds know more than anyone here. Particularly the players in question. But not everything. As such, anyone introducing a theory or history that makes sense should be discussed at the very least. Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzual was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

The narrative I subscribe to (which Lenehan introduced years back as the Picasso) was that Catena was acting Boss and became THE BOSS when Don Vitone passed away. While Catena was in prison for contempt, the West Side had Eboli "representing" its affairs (and not necessarily as boss but in the same capacity Fritzy Giovanelli was in at the Commission meeting called by JoeyM) while the power behind him was primarily Ben Turpin and Pete LaTempa. Catena is released and Funzi accepts becoming boss.

That's about as logical and sensible as any. Moreso than the timeline agreed upon by fanboy webpages. Tony Ducks and Fat Tony discussing "Ben" on a bug as being in a position of power doesn't negate Tieri's actual position during the 1970s. But that's what gets used to justify it.

Here's another thought. A potential reason members were told to steer clear from Tieri was not because he was shelved but because A. Tieri ordered it or B. Others decreed so for Tieri's benefit. Frank Tieri was under federal scrutiny and was headed for the fight of his life. The very first RICO indictment. Why have anyone making their way to see Funzi under the glare of such scrutiny? Tieri

JIGGS

[JIGGS]

I could see how Catena may have really hated prison and didn't want to die there like Vito. He probably wanted to retire in Florida as a wealthy grandfather. It fits with the fact that that's exactly what he did upon leaving prison. By using Eboli and his brother Gene, he put an extra layer of protection between him and the borgata. It may have worked since the prison sentence he ended up receiving was relatively short.

I remember an issue with that. He was cited for contempt and incarcerated. But was released 7 years later. Not because he had been sentenced to a 7 to 10 but because a judge found his incarceration unconstitutional. He was in (Lewisburg?) a lot longer than he should have been.

JIGGS

[SonnyBlackstein]

You wrote "You are rewriting history and when asked for evidence deny to provide." That sounds like an attack on Scott.

Sorry, thats bullshit. Youre seeing things which werent there. Both claims in the above statement are without prejudice.
A) 'You are rewriting history'
That Lombardo was shelved is a new and not insignificant claim which to my knowledge contradicts the known historical timeline.
Changing that is literally, rewriting history.
B) 'when asked for evidence, deny to provide'
This requires little explanation. I asked for corroboration and Scott chose to withheld.

It is "new" for you. But this claim you are referring to had been expressed years ago on the Real Deal Forum by a poster who, love him or hate him, spent a good part of his life rubbing elbows with 'Jersey' folk. Maybe he is the source? Or maybe not. The point is that the known historical timeline is also bullshit. No one, including the feds then or now, have the West Side figured out. The feds know more than anyone here. Particularly the players in question. But not everything. As such, anyone introducing a theory or history that makes sense should be discussed at the very least. Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzual was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

The narrative I subscribe to (which Lenehan introduced years back as the Picasso) was that Catena was acting Boss and became THE BOSS when Don Vitone passed away. While Catena was in prison for contempt, the West Side had Eboli "representing" its affairs (and not necessarily as boss but in the same capacity Fritzy Giovanelli was in at the Commission meeting called by JoeyM) while the power behind him was primarily Ben Turpin and Pete LaTempa. Catena is released and Funzi accepts becoming boss.

That's about as logical and sensible as any. Moreso than the timeline agreed upon by fanboy webpages. Tony Ducks and Fat Tony discussing "Ben" on a bug as being in a position of power doesn't negate Tieri's actual position during the 1970s. But that's what gets used to justify it.

Here's another thought. A potential reason members were told to steer clear from Tieri was not because he was shelved but because A. Tieri ordered it or B. Others decreed so for Tieri's benefit. Frank Tieri was under federal scrutiny and was headed for the fight of his life. The very first RICO indictment. Why have anyone making their way to see Funzi under the glare of such scrutiny? Tieri

JIGGS

Are you seriously justifying a profound statement such as Benny Squint Lomabardo being shelved as only 'new to me' (and a known legitimate theory on the course of events) because to use your words 'a poster on real deal mentioned this ten years ago' and maybe is Scotts source? This is your evidence or basis?
Thats honestly your argument?

But hey, if this guy knew some 'Joysey' folk n all, well, I guess that changes the sit.

Fuck me.

You know whats funny, in one sentence you say no one really knows anything about the Westside in the 70's and the very next, the VERY next, you follow up with 'the known historical timeline is bullshit.'

I do so love irony.

I know you have your fanboys here, best stick to replying to them. Waste of time here Jiggs.
Due respect.

[JIGGS]

You wrote "You are rewriting history and when asked for evidence deny to provide." That sounds like an attack on Scott.

Sorry, thats bullshit. Youre seeing things which werent there. Both claims in the above statement are without prejudice.
A) 'You are rewriting history'
That Lombardo was shelved is a new and not insignificant claim which to my knowledge contradicts the known historical timeline.
Changing that is literally, rewriting history.
B) 'when asked for evidence, deny to provide'
This requires little explanation. I asked for corroboration and Scott chose to withheld.

It is "new" for you. But this claim you are referring to had been expressed years ago on the Real Deal Forum by a poster who, love him or hate him, spent a good part of his life rubbing elbows with 'Jersey' folk. Maybe he is the source? Or maybe not. The point is that the known historical timeline is also bullshit. No one, including the feds then or now, have the West Side figured out. The feds know more than anyone here. Particularly the players in question. But not everything. As such, anyone introducing a theory or history that makes sense should be discussed at the very least. Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzual was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

The narrative I subscribe to (which Lenehan introduced years back as the Picasso) was that Catena was acting Boss and became THE BOSS when Don Vitone passed away. While Catena was in prison for contempt, the West Side had Eboli "representing" its affairs (and not necessarily as boss but in the same capacity Fritzy Giovanelli was in at the Commission meeting called by JoeyM) while the power behind him was primarily Ben Turpin and Pete LaTempa. Catena is released and Funzi accepts becoming boss.

That's about as logical and sensible as any. Moreso than the timeline agreed upon by fanboy webpages. Tony Ducks and Fat Tony discussing "Ben" on a bug as being in a position of power doesn't negate Tieri's actual position during the 1970s. But that's what gets used to justify it.

Here's another thought. A potential reason members were told to steer clear from Tieri was not because he was shelved but because A. Tieri ordered it or B. Others decreed so for Tieri's benefit. Frank Tieri was under federal scrutiny and was headed for the fight of his life. The very first RICO indictment. Why have anyone making their way to see Funzi under the glare of such scrutiny? Tieri

JIGGS

Are you seriously justifying a profound statement such as Benny Squint Lomabardo being shelved as only 'new to me' (and a known legitimate theory on the course of events) because to use your words 'a poster on real deal mentioned this ten years ago' and maybe is Scotts source? This is your evidence or basis?
Thats honestly your argument?

But hey, if this guy knew some 'Joysey' folk n all, well, I guess that changes the sit.

Fuck me.

You know whats funny, in one sentence you say no one really knows anything about the Westside in the 70's and the very next, the VERY next, you follow up with 'the known historical timeline is bullshit.'

I do so love irony.

I know you have your fanboys here, best stick to replying to them. Waste of time here Jiggs.
Due respect.

I would recommend to you in the future, which I'll do myself after this post, to send a PM directly to posters who you have a gripe with. Your little constant get on your soapbox tirades are a waste of time for a thread that could be better served for discussion and not your bullshit outrage over what someone else thinks.

JIGGS

[SonnyBlackstein]

You wrote "You are rewriting history and when asked for evidence deny to provide." That sounds like an attack on Scott.

Sorry, thats bullshit. Youre seeing things which werent there. Both claims in the above statement are without prejudice.
A) 'You are rewriting history'
That Lombardo was shelved is a new and not insignificant claim which to my knowledge contradicts the known historical timeline.
Changing that is literally, rewriting history.
B) 'when asked for evidence, deny to provide'
This requires little explanation. I asked for corroboration and Scott chose to withheld.

It is "new" for you. But this claim you are referring to had been expressed years ago on the Real Deal Forum by a poster who, love him or hate him, spent a good part of his life rubbing elbows with 'Jersey' folk. Maybe he is the source? Or maybe not. The point is that the known historical timeline is also bullshit. No one, including the feds then or now, have the West Side figured out. The feds know more than anyone here. Particularly the players in question. But not everything. As such, anyone introducing a theory or history that makes sense should be discussed at the very least. Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzual was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

The narrative I subscribe to (which Lenehan introduced years back as the Picasso) was that Catena was acting Boss and became THE BOSS when Don Vitone passed away. While Catena was in prison for contempt, the West Side had Eboli "representing" its affairs (and not necessarily as boss but in the same capacity Fritzy Giovanelli was in at the Commission meeting called by JoeyM) while the power behind him was primarily Ben Turpin and Pete LaTempa. Catena is released and Funzi accepts becoming boss.

That's about as logical and sensible as any. Moreso than the timeline agreed upon by fanboy webpages. Tony Ducks and Fat Tony discussing "Ben" on a bug as being in a position of power doesn't negate Tieri's actual position during the 1970s. But that's what gets used to justify it.

Here's another thought. A potential reason members were told to steer clear from Tieri was not because he was shelved but because A. Tieri ordered it or B. Others decreed so for Tieri's benefit. Frank Tieri was under federal scrutiny and was headed for the fight of his life. The very first RICO indictment. Why have anyone making their way to see Funzi under the glare of such scrutiny? Tieri

JIGGS

Are you seriously justifying a profound statement such as Benny Squint Lomabardo being shelved as only 'new to me' (and a known legitimate theory on the course of events) because to use your words 'a poster on real deal mentioned this ten years ago' and maybe is Scotts source? This is your evidence or basis?
Thats honestly your argument?

But hey, if this guy knew some 'Joysey' folk n all, well, I guess that changes the sit.

Fuck me.

You know whats funny, in one sentence you say no one really knows anything about the Westside in the 70's and the very next, the VERY next, you follow up with 'the known historical timeline is bullshit.'

I do so love irony.

I know you have your fanboys here, best stick to replying to them. Waste of time here Jiggs.
Due respect.

I would recommend to you in the future, which I'll do myself after this post, to send a PM directly to posters who you have a gripe with. Your little constant get on your soapbox tirades are a waste of time for a thread that could be better served for discussion and not your bullshit outrage over what someone else thinks.

JIGGS

Have you really left the building jiggs?

A known 'journalist' makes one of the biggest claims conerning the 70's decade of NYC LCN in recent memory, is called upon to substantiate, fails to do so annnnnnddd.... a poster, (your good self) then rocks up on the scene supporting the claim basis....(wait for it, waaaait.....)...... 'some poster on a forum ten years ago who knew some people for Jersey!' ....... then, the pearl...... I'M on a soapbox and derailing discussion.



Fuck me mate, Ive now read it all.

[Wiseguy]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Because it's only an online consensus that Phil Lombardo was the boss and Funzi was a front. Which is the most irresponsible assertion made by Wiki editors.

Actually, it seems most law enforcement and OC journalists (Capeci, Raab, etc) agree with this too, ie Lombardo being the boss, Tieri being underboss/acting boss, etc. It's not a Wiki invention and has been the conventional wisdom for years.

Agree 100%. It is true we may never know the real or exact truth
concerning this West Side topic. That said, the info put forth by the most
knowledgeable (non OC members) has consistantly stated that
Lombardo was the boss hidden from view, and the others were
his front. Then, Chin used the same strategy to insulate himself.