Giancana’s killer revealed?

[SonnyBlackstein]

So in another words are you saying that Accardo and the Outfit ordered Giancana's death, but the government ordered the local LE and FBI to not pursue the case because of Sam's past involvement with the CIA and that it would become public. Ditto for Roselli.

In some words yeah but I believe that Sam would've probably talked, followed by Roselli since he possibly already opened his mouth. That would be one part of my theory regarding the case until we receive some "new" info or maybe some which we possibly missed it (not the Calabrse Jr type of info). Almost all of the Chicago guys with the CIA connections ended up dead and I dont believe often in coincidences. And I say "almost" since one or two remained alive and well

I have studied the JFK Assassination. Dozens of people that got close to , or had info on the case, ended up dead.
I do not think you are a conspiracy nut. I think you are on target. The CIA controls situations with murder. Fact.

Tin hat.

[Antiliar]

I read the actual testimony that Joseph Shimon gave to the Church Committee, and he doesn't say that he met with Giancana and Rosselli shortly before Sam was killed. He said that Sam called him on the phone several days before the killing, and wanted to meet with him, but Shimon already had plans to fly out somewhere. At that point, Sam and Rosselli hadn't seen each other for ten years, so Giancana only knew about what was going on with Rosselli from news stories. Didn't really have much interest in him. Shimon also said that when Giancana went to Mexico that he dropped all of his Outfit contacts (except for a few friends) and considered himself done. So I have no doubt that Accardo ordered both their deaths and the CIA had nothing to do with it.

[Confederate]

This article explains the relationship Detective Joseph Shimon had with Rosselli and Giancana:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... d6d2c4598d

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

So the CIA AND Giancana both thought that Trafficante was a Rat and conspired with Castro. I thought it was only the CIA who thought that about Trafficante. Very interesting. Good article and it explains Trafficante's motive.

[Confederate]

I read the actual testimony that Joseph Shimon gave to the Church Committee, and he doesn't say that he met with Giancana and Rosselli shortly before Sam was killed. He said that Sam called him on the phone several days before the killing, and wanted to meet with him, but Shimon already had plans to fly out somewhere. At that point, Sam and Rosselli hadn't seen each other for ten years, so Giancana only knew about what was going on with Rosselli from news stories. Didn't really have much interest in him. Shimon also said that when Giancana went to Mexico that he dropped all of his Outfit contacts (except for a few friends) and considered himself done. So I have no doubt that Accardo ordered both their deaths and the CIA had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Accardo ordered their deaths. If the CIA were to kill anybody, they should have killed Trafficante for being a rat and tipping off Castro. Instead, Trafficante died of Cancer in 1987.

[Snakes]

From the records I have seen, Giancana only dealt with Blasi, English, and Richard Cain when he was in Mexico. Cain and Blasi were the only ones that visited him there, with Cain practically staying full time down there. English handled whatever of his affairs remained in Chicago, including some legitimate real estate dealings.

[DPG]

Wish all the two cents left in this thread had went into my account

[Confederate]

From the records I have seen, Giancana only dealt with Blasi, English, and Richard Cain when he was in Mexico. Cain and Blasi were the only ones that visited him there, with Cain practically staying full time down there. English handled whatever of his affairs remained in Chicago, including some legitimate real estate dealings.

Again, I agree. That's what Villain and I found to be true. I mentioned something else related to this another thread but I'll say it here. I think that the statement by Ralph Pierce saying "You won't believe it if I told you" is related to Dominic Blasi who was very close to Giancana and was not known to be a killer like Lombardo, Spilotro, etc. In fact I'm still surprised when I think about Blasi shooting Giancana. It must have torn up Blasi inside but he could not refuse an order from Accardo. He was the only logical one of those three men who Accardo, Alex, Cerone & Auippa could trust to do the job. Cain was already dead and English was not on good terms with them. English probably would have told Giancana. Blasi was the only guy left they could trust who could get that close to Giancana. Anyway, that's the way I see it based upon all the evidence presented.

[Villain]

Shimon also said that when Giancana went to Mexico that he dropped all of his Outfit contacts (except for a few friends) and considered himself done. So I have no doubt that Accardo ordered both their deaths and the CIA had nothing to do with it.

You cannot say for sure that the CIA had no kind of involvement in their deaths or at least turned a blind eye on the whole case. If they were hired and later eliminated, theres nothing unusual in it. And dont think that some gov agents came and killed him or organized the logistics, no because the Mob always completes that task. Its the same all around the world since its a connection which was possibly first created during the reigns of the Soviet Union. Or for example during the 70s, 80s and early 90s a lot of Yugoslav mobsters (who were previously involved in various gov ops) were eliminated on the orders of the local secret service (which always had close connection to the CIA) and all of the hits were executed by mobsters, either by ones close to them or by rival groups and on top of that, there are agents who testified regarding these types of situations

Also I wouldnt say that Giancana dropped all of his Mob contacts since he was constantly visited by many Mobsters, like for example in 70 or 71 he was personally visited by Accardo or even possibly mobsters from different families (not confirmed), but I have to be honest that he was mostly visited by couriers...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... a%20mexico

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 5&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... na_morgano (from Chi Sun Times)

In addition, Im not sure about Giancana, but I can say for sure that Roselli and Cain were talking...

Heres one doc which confirms that Cain was informing the feds under code name CG-7177 PC from October until December 13, 1973, and later he was killed on December 20th....

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 4&tab=page

Also in 1976 New York city literary agent Sheldon Abend met with Roselli regarding the publishing of his story on the CIA/Mob connections...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 2&tab=page

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

So in another words are you saying that Accardo and the Outfit ordered Giancana's death, but the government ordered the local LE and FBI to not pursue the case because of Sam's past involvement with the CIA and that it would become public. Ditto for Roselli.

In some words yeah but I believe that Sam would've probably talked, followed by Roselli since he possibly already opened his mouth. That would be one part of my theory regarding the case until we receive some "new" info or maybe some which we possibly missed it (not the Calabrse Jr type of info). Almost all of the Chicago guys with the CIA connections ended up dead and I dont believe often in coincidences. And I say "almost" since one or two remained alive and well

I have studied the JFK Assassination. Dozens of people that got close to , or had info on the case, ended up dead.
I do not think you are a conspiracy nut. I think you are on target. The CIA controls situations with murder. Fact.

Tin hat.

Tin 'foil' hat. Using thick tin is too hard to bend.
I insist on my tin foil hats be shaped like a tri fold,
Napolean style.

[SonnyBlackstein]

So in another words are you saying that Accardo and the Outfit ordered Giancana's death, but the government ordered the local LE and FBI to not pursue the case because of Sam's past involvement with the CIA and that it would become public. Ditto for Roselli.

In some words yeah but I believe that Sam would've probably talked, followed by Roselli since he possibly already opened his mouth. That would be one part of my theory regarding the case until we receive some "new" info or maybe some which we possibly missed it (not the Calabrse Jr type of info). Almost all of the Chicago guys with the CIA connections ended up dead and I dont believe often in coincidences. And I say "almost" since one or two remained alive and well

I have studied the JFK Assassination. Dozens of people that got close to , or had info on the case, ended up dead.
I do not think you are a conspiracy nut. I think you are on target. The CIA controls situations with murder. Fact.

Tin hat.

Tin 'foil' hat. Using thick tin is too hard to bend.
I insist on my tin foil hats be shaped like a tri fold,
Napolean style.

[Antiliar]

Shimon also said that when Giancana went to Mexico that he dropped all of his Outfit contacts (except for a few friends) and considered himself done. So I have no doubt that Accardo ordered both their deaths and the CIA had nothing to do with it.

You cannot say for sure that the CIA had no kind of involvement in their deaths or at least turned a blind eye on the whole case. If they were hired and later eliminated, theres nothing unusual in it. And dont think that some gov agents came and killed him or organized the logistics, no because the Mob always completes that task. Its the same all around the world since its a connection which was possibly first created during the reigns of the Soviet Union. Or for example during the 70s, 80s and early 90s a lot of Yugoslav mobsters (who were previously involved in various gov ops) were eliminated on the orders of the local secret service (which always had close connection to the CIA) and all of the hits were executed by mobsters, either by ones close to them or by rival groups and on top of that, there are agents who testified regarding these types of situations

Also I wouldnt say that Giancana dropped all of his Mob contacts since he was constantly visited by many Mobsters, like for example in 70 or 71 he was personally visited by Accardo or even possibly mobsters from different families (not confirmed), but I have to be honest that he was mostly visited by couriers...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... a%20mexico

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 5&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... na_morgano (from Chi Sun Times)

In addition, Im not sure about Giancana, but I can say for sure that Roselli and Cain were talking...

Heres one doc which confirms that Cain was informing the feds under code name CG-7177 PC from October until December 13, 1973, and later he was killed on December 20th....

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 4&tab=page

Also in 1976 New York city literary agent Sheldon Abend met with Roselli regarding the publishing of his story on the CIA/Mob connections...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 2&tab=page

No, I can't say with 100% certainty that the CIA wasn't involved, but I can put it around 99.998% certainty that I don't believe the CIA was involved in Giancana's death, or the death of any other Outfit member. That's my opinion, but I can't prove it with a level of scientific certainty.

We know that Cain was talking. Roemer was the first one to tell us that. Rosselli, I don't think so. He gossiped to other made people and associates. With outsiders, he usually led them on, lied to them and told them what they wanted to hear.

[Villain]

Shimon also said that when Giancana went to Mexico that he dropped all of his Outfit contacts (except for a few friends) and considered himself done. So I have no doubt that Accardo ordered both their deaths and the CIA had nothing to do with it.

You cannot say for sure that the CIA had no kind of involvement in their deaths or at least turned a blind eye on the whole case. If they were hired and later eliminated, theres nothing unusual in it. And dont think that some gov agents came and killed him or organized the logistics, no because the Mob always completes that task. Its the same all around the world since its a connection which was possibly first created during the reigns of the Soviet Union. Or for example during the 70s, 80s and early 90s a lot of Yugoslav mobsters (who were previously involved in various gov ops) were eliminated on the orders of the local secret service (which always had close connection to the CIA) and all of the hits were executed by mobsters, either by ones close to them or by rival groups and on top of that, there are agents who testified regarding these types of situations

Also I wouldnt say that Giancana dropped all of his Mob contacts since he was constantly visited by many Mobsters, like for example in 70 or 71 he was personally visited by Accardo or even possibly mobsters from different families (not confirmed), but I have to be honest that he was mostly visited by couriers...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... a%20mexico

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 5&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... na_morgano (from Chi Sun Times)

In addition, Im not sure about Giancana, but I can say for sure that Roselli and Cain were talking...

Heres one doc which confirms that Cain was informing the feds under code name CG-7177 PC from October until December 13, 1973, and later he was killed on December 20th....

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 4&tab=page

Also in 1976 New York city literary agent Sheldon Abend met with Roselli regarding the publishing of his story on the CIA/Mob connections...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 2&tab=page

No, I can't say with 100% certainty that the CIA wasn't involved, but I can put it around 99.998% certainty that I don't believe the CIA was involved in Giancana's death, or the death of any other Outfit member. That's my opinion, but I can't prove it with a level of scientific certainty.

We know that Cain was talking. Roemer was the first one to tell us that. Rosselli, I don't think so. He gossiped to other made people and associates. With outsiders, he usually led them on, lied to them and told them what they wanted to hear.

Well we'll leave that way, meaning you have your own opinion and I have mine. And believe me Roselli talked but this time I wont post the files...at least for now. Who knows, maybe you missed somethin...

[Antiliar]

Rosselli did talk up to a point, I'll put it that way. If you read his testimony from the 1950 Kefauver Hearing, he did share a lot of info, but nothing incriminating. When he was interviewed about his involvement in the Bay of Pigs, he discussed that, but he didn't discuss the inner workings of the Outfit. So what I'm saying is that he didn't reveal crimes in the same way Fratianno, Bompensiero, Valachi or Lonardo did.

[Villain]

So what I'm saying is that he didn't reveal crimes in the same way Fratianno, Bompensiero, Valachi or Lonardo did.

Oh I completely agree with you on that since he never talked mob business except for statements such as this guy is the man,and this guy is not, and I also have some records from him talking small on both subjects during the late 60's or early 70's (I have to re-check that) but thats not important right now.

The important question is, or what do you think that the CIA and Mob thought about Sam or Roselli talking about "anything"? I mean were they going to take such a big risk, meaning the CIA knew that they were going to reveal ALL of their past operations and the Mob wasnt sure if they were going to stick ONLY to that subject?

I think that if we really want to know what happened, we should ask Alex or Blasi, or maybe even Accardo lol since the agencies always go to your friends and enemies, the same way they previously came to you, meaning they usually hold everyone by the throat and force them to do the job in return for protection, hence Blasi's (only questioned in front of juries and never imprisoned on the murder) or Alex's (imprisoned way later in 1992 on different subject) or Accardo's (happily died in 1992) freedoms after the murder of Giancana, one of the most infamous hits in Mob's history which occurred in modern times

[Confederate]

So, the only way the CIA could have been involved with the Giancana & Roselli Murders would have been them contacting someone high up in the Outfit and somehow demanding or leveraging or convincing Accardo, Alex, Cerone & Auippa that Giancana & Roselli must be killed. The Outfit then would have to take care of their own house cleaning. That is possible.

Giancana was killed in June of 1975 and Roselli a year later. The thing that I thought was strange was that Roselli seemed to not fear for his life. He said something like "Why would anyone want to kill an old man like me". He even testified about his involvement with the CIA after Giancana was killed.