Relationship between Philly and Gambino’s now

[Wiseguy]

Vic was locked up, I’m not sure how respected DeFede was so I’m sure he was shorted as well as having to give Vic his take and also that was a period of unprecedented LE indictments that probably had a lot of guys cash light with defense costs and maybe even laying low.

That was also a period of change where wiseguys lost a lot of core rackets and didn’t quite adjust to the new environment and was pre internet and the big pivot to gambling . Now gambling is everything with monster books and I think guys are consistently earning again. My guess would be Merlin’s makes $500k range a year . In total Philly must be running tens and even hundred million annual sports book across NJ, PA and DE. That’s steady cash in guys hands to do all sorts of side biz / deals

Well, we can look at an example like the Borgata bust, which was the largest bookmaking case involving the Philadelphia family in recent years. $60 million in bets over a 20 month period. So you're looking at maybe $6 million net over that time period? Or $3.6 million if you want to put it into a year time frame. If you divide that by the 23 people involved equally, you're looking at about $156,000 a piece. But you have to figure a good chunk of the profits went up the ladder too.

[Pogo The Clown]

Getting an exact number? No. Getting a reasonably accurate range from indictments, informants and history? I would say yes.


Case in point the big Merlino indictment from 2000. When you look at what the top guys were involved with like selling stolen ceiling fans on a street corner for 20 bucks a pop, selling a stolen Lamborgini for 5 grand, moving a truck load of stolen kids bicycles, shaking down local bookmakers for a few grand and running some low end bookmaking one can reasonable conclude that these guys are not handling hundreds of millions a year.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Getting an exact number? No. Getting a reasonably accurate range from indictments, informants and history? I would say yes.


Case in point the big Merlino indictment from 2000. When you look at what the top guys were involved with like selling stolen ceiling fans on a street corner for 20 bucks a pop, selling a stolen Lamborgini for 5 grand, moving a truck load of stolen kids bicycles, shaking down local bookmakers for a few grand and running some low end bookmaking one can reasonable conclude that these guys are not handling hundreds of millions a year.


Pogo

Agreed. They don't have NY-sized sports books, where they're handling hundreds of millions of dollars. And looking at all info available, one can get a good idea of things even without exact figures available. Thougj its better to look at all indictments in recent years rather than singling one out.

[TommyNoto]

You're dreaming if you think LCN is pulling in as much or more today than they were in the mid 90s. Especially Merlino and Philly pulling in that kind of money. They have never even sniffed hundreds of millions of dollars. One only has to look at the Stanfa case, the 2001 Merlino case and the Ligambi case to see that Philly (with few exceptions) is a family of brokesters post Scarfo era. Everything that has come out is low level mostly penny ante stuff when it comes to rackets.


Pogo

I definitely don’t think guys are making more , just that it was a messy time for the Luchesse and might not be the best barometer for a bosses income.

I didn’t intend to mean they make that much $, just how many bets / action they take in . I would not be surprised at all if the north jersey crew had a $10m sports book itself as they have been around forever and from my undertstanding had some kind of working relationship with Luchesse NJ. The banks profit is roughly in the 5% of bets range but some years it cld be more .

I’m probably in the minority but I do feel when it comes to sports betting the mob is making more money today then in the 80s / 90s as with the internet and spread to the suburbs a crew can almost lock down an entire county in NJ like Essex with Luchesse and Hudson with West side. That Perna book was enormous stretching from north jersey into PA so we are talking a lot of action . Now it’s no where close to construction , fish , garbage income back in the day but a typical blue collar guy can at least make a living managing a sports book with side activity

[TommyNoto]

Also i thought Merlino was getting $100k pay offs from the prescription racket alone so I wouldn’nt agree they are at the Mickey Mouse level just yet . Down for sure but between the sports , loan sharking . Video poker , drugs and restaurants / real estate they are doing better then in years past . Plus there are guys out there still robbing people for big hits so Joey probably gets a few nice envelopes here and there for the big scores .

[Ivan]

One only has to look at the Stanfa case, the 2001 Merlino case and the Ligambi case to see that Philly (with few exceptions) is a family of brokesters post Scarfo era.

That business where Servidio was selling fentanyl pills that he hand-made himself was the most pathetic thing I've ever heard of an actual "made" guy doing. I can't think of anything worse in any family. It made Merlino's ceiling fan salesman routine looking like the Lufthansa Heist in comparison.

[TJ]

Pogo, again on a whole yes, rackets as u and law enforcement call them aren’t what they use to be. But there are businesses where guys make a ton of legal money, a ton, so again, not sure how the blanket statement applies...what I say is this, some lawyers..some doctors, some engineers..some marketing managers...make 100 or 150k a year...and some make 10 mill...and..some gangsters do the same..u bring up a ‘recent’ indictment...20 years ago? ..again, same applies, I’ll use myself, my tax return for 2001 compared to 2017 literally 6 times the amount..and I was over 30 in 2001... can’t blanket these guys, no different than the rest of society..but ok, the daily number is no longer bringing in money, lol, that’s a given..

[Pogo The Clown]

I used the big 2000 indictment because it serves as a prime example of what the top guy's were involved with. You can go back to the big Stanfa case in 1994 and every indictment since then including the big 2011 Ligambi indictment up to this recent case with Servidio and Piccolo personally selling small amounts of drugs. You can read what several of the informants involved have had to say about the family's activities and earnings. It all points to Philly no longer being a big money operation and that the top guy's (while some are better off than others) are no longer making the big bucks.


Pogo

[Chucky]

the whole meeting arranged by Licata and Skins(nj guys). There was really no relationship between the ny guys and south philly guys until that day.

Blatantly untrue. In the transcripts Trucchio mentions wanting to be re-introduced to Eric Esposito since he was recently made. Trucchio and other Gambino guys went to Esposito's wedding in '07; he married a Corozzo daughter. Lancellotti and Massimino were mentioned frequently by Gambino members. NY and Philly are close in proximity, these guys interact more than you think.

[TommyGambino]

Getting an exact number? No. Getting a reasonably accurate range from indictments, informants and history? I would say yes.


Case in point the big Merlino indictment from 2000. When you look at what the top guys were involved with like selling stolen ceiling fans on a street corner for 20 bucks a pop, selling a stolen Lamborgini for 5 grand, moving a truck load of stolen kids bicycles, shaking down local bookmakers for a few grand and running some low end bookmaking one can reasonable conclude that these guys are not handling hundreds of millions a year.


Pogo

You put a nigerian out on the street, have them sell these for a couple, tree' bucks a piece. Who's not gonna say, "screw it, give me one.

[TJ]

Pogo, you are entering on philly for your argument, but this was a coversation of everyone in general..I just don’t know how u can gauge,.u r talking indictment paperwork..I’ll give u a for instance, Gerry Angiulo 1980sindictment didn’t talk about his property, but I can attest Huntington realty trust properties were worth about 20mill in80s, never mentioned never talked about, today that property is worth. I’d say 250mill, and his kids tow equipment probably 100mill, again not mentioned in any indictments..you use indictments to fit your arguement, let’s go back to philly, u mention indictments from 20,25 years ago, let’s use merlino 2016 indictment, they supposedly had this 9 figure cream scam, know,I certainly don’t believe the numbers on that scam, BUT you can’t have it both ways, believe one but not the other...at day’s end, like any walk of life, some guys kill it, some don’t..some are brain surgeons, some are leaf blowers

[TJ]

Centering on

[Teddy Persico]

One only has to look at the Stanfa case, the 2001 Merlino case and the Ligambi case to see that Philly (with few exceptions) is a family of brokesters post Scarfo era.

That business where Servidio was selling fentanyl pills that he hand-made himself was the most pathetic thing I've ever heard of an actual "made" guy doing. I can't think of anything worse in any family. It made Merlino's ceiling fan salesman routine looking like the Lufthansa Heist in comparison.

They were wholesaling it to other gangs though according to mob talk.

[Teddy Persico]

Here’s a couple numbers that have been revealed for Philly. Bent Finger Lou testified that he gave Borgesi and his wife $40k a year from the deleware county rackets. The 2011 indictment had Ligambi and co. controlling 92 joker poker machines. One newspaper report quoted a source saying that they can make $500-$1,000 a week per machine. If that’s split with the bar/restaurant owner, that’s $1.2 million to $2.4 million a year that the Philly family netted.

[JeremyTheJew]

One only has to look at the Stanfa case, the 2001 Merlino case and the Ligambi case to see that Philly (with few exceptions) is a family of brokesters post Scarfo era.

That business where Servidio was selling fentanyl pills that he hand-made himself was the most pathetic thing I've ever heard of an actual "made" guy doing. I can't think of anything worse in any family. It made Merlino's ceiling fan salesman routine looking like the Lufthansa Heist in comparison.

They were wholesaling it to other gangs though according to mob talk.

wholesale or not it just seems very... lowlife.... type.
do you know how many ppl were probably effected by that?? an addict who was sick spent 100$ on basically NOTHING..... someone was held responsible for that...

what was really odd was they said he sold the UC agent a kilo of meth like substance but tested ZERO PERCENT meth... and then 2 other occasions where it was pure meth...

how does this happen??? and wouldn't he find It off these guys bought a fake meth kilo and kept doin it?