Role of a Soldier Today

[CabriniGreen]

I would think he'd have to name em all... Like they show him pics and he names ALL of em......

Did this actually occur? Genuinely curious now lol...

[eboli]

From what I remember they showed him mugshots or just names/aliases and he identified them. He had some trouble with the younger guys who were made in the 50's, but he was spot on with the older gangsters and their positions. The feds had a lot of info on organized crime at the time. The bureau of narcotics' mafia book had detailed descriptions, places of residence, background info on a lot of guys. I think it's fair to say they had a basic understanding on the organizational structure and Joe Cargo filled in the blanks.

[CabriniGreen]

Ah, okay. If so I stand corrected.


There is really a Genovese list with 450 guys?
I know the Gambino, 1000 number probably hasn't been verified.... But if Valachi gave em the goods, and its documented.. I'm inclined to believe it.....

[eboli]

The Genovese and Gambino historically were of similar strength with Genovese having lower number of captains and bigger crews. In my opinion the Valachi 450 number is inflated. even for the period, but not by a whole lot. In the hearings he says "about 450". I highly doubt there's a complete list of names. The Gambino number seems grossly inflated and I haven't seen any data to back it up. In 1967 the FBI had the following info for the number of capos in each of the five families: Colombo - 12; Gambino - 23; Genovese - 14; Lucchese - 10; Bonanno - 13

[CabriniGreen]

Good stuff...

[bobbybats]

There are associates that cant be made or wont be made but still have the power to meet directly with the boss. In KC Nick Civellas inner circle had two jew guys who carried considerable power and dealt directly with the boss. Max Jaben and Snag Clien and this was 40 years or so ago. Todays mob is much different as we know and rules have been relaxed. Its more about the individual, the relationship today.

[Pogo The Clown]

@pogo


When you say an " unrealistic view of their power", what in your opinion exactly is this view?
That the Sicilian mobsters are superior? I think that's what irks a lot of people about that Sixth family book.

Or do you mean something different?

I think this stuff gets misunderstood a LOT. I mean take Cali right? He's big in food I heard. Is it implausible that Cali would meet with say... A crooked food executive, or businessman who qualifies as an associate? Nah. If the guy is a big enough earner, you see the bosses more often than not try to monopolize the connection to the guy.

That's what it's about, connections. " Sicilian faction" to me means, a click of wealthy, mafia connected families (that permeate multiple actual families) with long ties to narcotics trafficking. John Dicke explains it better than me in his books.

I think people are seduced by all the talk of "Sicilians" and "Sicilians Factions". Most of it is just hype on the forums. Most of these "Sicilians" were either born here (Cali) or here for decades (Cefalu, Maninno, etc) and have been Gambinos for decades. Yet people make it sound like this army of Sicilian criminal masterminds have come over here and taken over when really nothing has changed in the Gambinos. The members of this "faction" are also a very tiny proportion of the whole family.


A lot of the hype is also based on nothing but speculation and assumption. It goes like this. Since some of the guy's in this "faction" have ties to Sicilian mobsters (however tenuous some of these ties are) and since the Sicilian Mob are big drug traffickers in Europe and once upon a time were big dealers in the US that must mean that the Gambinos are major drug traffickers today. There is of course nothing to support this.


LCN has a very small role in the drug trade today and is really just confined to some street level dealing within their own typical area of operation. Today I would say the Gambinos are no more involved in drugs than the other NY families (which is again minimal).


Pogo

[HairyKnuckles]

I think you´re right Pogo. There haven´t benn a major bust involving heroin or any other heavy drug for years that I can recall. It´s mostly marijuana and pills these guys are pushing nowadays.

It´s an interesting question from OP. Do people still want to be made these days? I´d say yes. Getting made is a door opener to a network that extends througout the five Families and whatever is left of LCN outside of NY. The opportunity for an individual to make money widens when he gets made. A made member can legally, so to speak, lean on an outsider who is on his own, bully him around, rob him off his money or sometime steal his racket if he doesn´t have protection. How can an outsider fight back and survive pressure like that? He can´t. He will have to chose between paying street tax or close down.

[Wiseguy]

@ wise guy

Just a question.. Was that serious on the Corrozzo thing?

Only reason I'm asking is because in the Q&A with DiLeonardo, he says Corrozzo was never in line to be boss. Made me wonder where that ever came from.

No, I wasn't serious. It was a joke in reference to several posters in the past who put Corozzo on a pedestal and insisted (as if they were in any position to know) that he was the real boss of the Gambino family.

Pretty sure didonnato made the claim about corrazo.....read somewhere corral sent word to Sr that Jr was in danger ,,,,,,100k sent back

I think it was Alite that made that claim, i.e. that there was a plot by Corozzo and others to kill Junior. Corozzo sent a message to Gotti in prison that "Junior needs to slide over or we can't protect him." Gotti read between the lines, sent back money, and Corozzo backed out of the plot to kill Junior.

DiDonato did claim that Corozzo said one time that of he went to prison again they would have to kill a lot of people, "starting with that Baby Huey over in Queens" (their nickname for Junior).

Also I got another question for wise guy

The Valaci 450 figure... Why would you even believe that? Not an attack, it's just he was a low level guy. He knew ALL 450 made guys? He was properly introduced to ALL 450 members? And would he actually remember em all? The names? Territories? It's not plausible anyway... In my opinion. You would need multiple informants' or like the boss at the top for that it seems.

Look at the DiLeonardo questions, he knows what he knows about, but he doesn't know everything that's went on.....

I agree. But we can only comment on the availalble figures. I've always taken Valachi's figures with a grain of salt. In fact, I do so with most figures I see before the 1980s when the Fed's knowledge became more thorough and consistent. Nevertheless, in a 1967 report I read the Feds had the Genovese at 287 members and the Gambinos at 253 members. But they likely hadn't identified everyone at that point.

I think people are seduced by all the talk of "Sicilians" and "Sicilians Factions". Most of it is just hype on the forums. Most of these "Sicilians" were either born here (Cali) or here for decades (Cefalu, Maninno, etc) and have been Gambinos for decades. Yet people make it sound like this army of Sicilian criminal masterminds have come over here and taken over when really nothing has changed in the Gambinos. The members of this "faction" are also a very tiny proportion of the whole family.


A lot of the hype is also based on nothing but speculation and assumption. It goes like this. Since some of the guy's in this "faction" have ties to Sicilian mobsters (however tenuous some of these ties are) and since the Sicilian Mob are big drug traffickers in Europe and once upon a time were big dealers in the US that must mean that the Gambinos are major drug traffickers today. There is of course nothing to support this.


LCN has a very small role in the drug trade today and is really just confined to some street level dealing within their own typical area of operation. Today I would say the Gambinos are no more involved in drugs than the other NY families (which is again minimal).


Pogo

I think you´re right Pogo. There haven´t benn a major bust involving heroin or any other heavy drug for years that I can recall. It´s mostly marijuana and pills these guys are pushing nowadays.

It´s an interesting question from OP. Do people still want to be made these days? I´d say yes. Getting made is a door opener to a network that extends througout the five Families and whatever is left of LCN outside of NY. The opportunity for an individual to make money widens when he gets made. A made member can legally, so to speak, lean on an outsider who is on his own, bully him around, rob him off his money or sometime steal his racket if he doesn´t have protection. How can an outsider fight back and survive pressure like that? He can´t. He will have to chose between paying street tax or close down.

Totally agree about the Sicilian thing.

As for the LCN and drugs, I think it has certainly been marginalized in the drug trade. The families outside New York are small time players. But the New York families, while obviously not having the position they once did, still have significant involvement. We often see narcotics among the charges in mob cases, though the amounts aren't always specified. Heroin is few and far between but we still see a good amount of cocaine charges in addition to the marijuana, ecstasy, and prescription drugs.

[slimshady_007]

As for the LCN and drugs, I think it has certainly been marginalized in the drug trade. The families outside New York are small time players. But the New York families, while obviously not having the position they once did, still have significant involvement. We often see narcotics among the charges in mob cases, though the amounts aren't always specified. Heroin is few and far between but we still see a good amount of cocaine charges in addition to the marijuana, ecstasy, and prescription drugs.
[/quote]

The mob usually doesn’t deal directly with drugs, i hear. But rather tax street dealers

[Pogo The Clown]

The mob usually doesn’t deal directly with drugs, i hear. But rather tax street dealers

That is a myth. The mob has always been involved with directly dealing drugs.


Pogo

[Confederate]

As for the LCN and drugs, I think it has certainly been marginalized in the drug trade. The families outside New York are small time players. But the New York families, while obviously not having the position they once did, still have significant involvement. We often see narcotics among the charges in mob cases, though the amounts aren't always specified. Heroin is few and far between but we still see a good amount of cocaine charges in addition to the marijuana, ecstasy, and prescription drugs.

The mob usually doesn’t deal directly with drugs, i hear. But rather tax street dealers
[/quote]

What? Where did you hear that? In a ****### rap song?
They do both. They deal directly in drugs AND tax an independent if need be.

[Snakes]

Can we please just say "rap song?" I don't think "****###" Is necessary; we know what you really meant to say.

[slimshady_007]

As for the LCN and drugs, I think it has certainly been marginalized in the drug trade. The families outside New York are small time players. But the New York families, while obviously not having the position they once did, still have significant involvement. We often see narcotics among the charges in mob cases, though the amounts aren't always specified. Heroin is few and far between but we still see a good amount of cocaine charges in addition to the marijuana, ecstasy, and prescription drugs.

The mob usually doesn’t deal directly with drugs, i hear. But rather tax street dealers

What? Where did you hear that? In a ****### rap song?
They do both. They deal directly in drugs AND tax an independent if need be.
[/quote]
Fuck off u imbred hillbilly. I never said the mob NEVER deals directly. I hear that mostly they tax street dealers or have gangs do the work for them, which would b smarter. Joey merlino taxed street dealers while he was boss and anthony DiDonato taxed dealers on nicky corrozozs behalf.

[slimshady_007]

Can we please just say "rap song?" I don't think "****###" Is necessary; we know what you really meant to say.

This guys livin in the past. Look at his name and his quote.