Thutmose wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:03 am
Yes the Soprano family is tough they murdered every informant in their crew and they had a war with NY mob, so they would be scary if not look so funny. When I said they are soft I mean the way they portray, and the part of the life the show focus on. For example Chris doesnt look scary but in real life he would be a horrible killer.
In real life he wouldn't kill much because Italian-American mobsters don't really kill many people anymore.
As far as the Sopranos are concerned, It's not just about how they acted and joked around, it's also their physical appearance. Big Pussy Bonpensiero almost got a heart attack when he tried to run away from the feds. Junior with his moldy old sweaters. Tony a fat middle aged guy in midlife crisis. Paulie was old. Christopher was a skinny junkie. Vito, Bobby... All of them old fat guys. In that regard, it's a realistic portrayal because that's how the modern LCN looks like. Italian-American mob is a suburban thing now, they run illegal gambling operations in white neighborhoods. Those guys didn't have the tough upbringing that the gangsters from southern Italy, Latin America or Eastern Europe had (or the American LCN members who grew up in the 20s and 30s).
This is in huge contrast to Gomorra where it's mostly young guys in their prime. Ciro, Genny, Conte, Enzo... And their crews are full of the guys their age in their 20s and 30s. They have automatic weapons, bombs, international connections etc.
In Eastern Europe, a lot of mobsters are ex-military men or train combat sports like MMA and boxing and work out. Eastern European mobs have a lot of big scary physically imposing guys and trained killers. Or the cartel guys in Latin America.
Let's face it, the American LCN has become some sort of a joke in the organized crime world or some sort of mascot if you want. They are not scary at all. I imagine that if I went to NY and some fat middle aged mafioso started to talk shit to me with that heavy Italian-American NY accent I would probably think it's some sort of prank and burst out laughing. I would play along and tell him that he's a "fugazzi" and that he should get a shinebox LOL.
Hey I'm from Serbia, so welcome to the board. Don't know if your new or not.
On your post, the thing is that the mob is on the outs now but they have a lot of young asocciates. Look at the latest FBI indicments. No 70 year old made man or capo is gonna enforce his loan shark debts by his own. It isn't gonna happen now and it didn't happen 35 years ago also. That's the point of the mob, capos and bosses do not do their own dirty work, ever. Anyway, welcome to the place.
Thutmose wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:03 am
Yes the Soprano family is tough they murdered every informant in their crew and they had a war with NY mob, so they would be scary if not look so funny. When I said they are soft I mean the way they portray, and the part of the life the show focus on. For example Chris doesnt look scary but in real life he would be a horrible killer.
In real life he wouldn't kill much because Italian-American mobsters don't really kill many people anymore.
As far as the Sopranos are concerned, It's not just about how they acted and joked around, it's also their physical appearance. Big Pussy Bonpensiero almost got a heart attack when he tried to run away from the feds. Junior with his moldy old sweaters. Tony a fat middle aged guy in midlife crisis. Paulie was old. Christopher was a skinny junkie. Vito, Bobby... All of them old fat guys. In that regard, it's a realistic portrayal because that's how the modern LCN looks like. Italian-American mob is a suburban thing now, they run illegal gambling operations in white neighborhoods. Those guys didn't have the tough upbringing that the gangsters from southern Italy, Latin America or Eastern Europe had (or the American LCN members who grew up in the 20s and 30s).
This is in huge contrast to Gomorra where it's mostly young guys in their prime. Ciro, Genny, Conte, Enzo... And their crews are full of the guys their age in their 20s and 30s. They have automatic weapons, bombs, international connections etc.
In Eastern Europe, a lot of mobsters are ex-military men or train combat sports like MMA and boxing and work out. Eastern European mobs have a lot of big scary physically imposing guys and trained killers. Or the cartel guys in Latin America.
Let's face it, the American LCN has become some sort of a joke in the organized crime world or some sort of mascot if you want. They are not scary at all. I imagine that if I went to NY and some fat middle aged mafioso started to talk shit to me with that heavy Italian-American NY accent I would probably think it's some sort of prank and burst out laughing. I would play along and tell him that he's a "fugazzi" and that he should get a shinebox LOL.
Hey I'm from Serbia, so welcome to the board. Don't know if your new or not.
On your post, the thing is that the mob is on the outs now but they have a lot of young asocciates. Look at the latest FBI indicments. No 70 year old made man or capo is gonna enforce his loan shark debts by his own. It isn't gonna happen now and it didn't happen 35 years ago also. That's the point of the mob, capos and bosses do not do their own dirty work, ever. Anyway, welcome to the place.
I agree, the real life still different from Sopranos, in the show Tony would ride around without bodyguard, slash somebody for his loan and even commit murder personally, but a real life crime boss will have guys protecting him, send underlines to break legs and never kill someone by himself. Actually I think guy like Paulie wouldnt do those things by himself, either.
AlexfromSouth wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:23 pm
Hey I'm from Serbia, so welcome to the board. Don't know if your new or not.
Hvala. Inače registrirao sam se ovdje već prije ali onda dugo vremena nisam pisao ništa.
On your post, the thing is that the mob is on the outs now but they have a lot of young asocciates. Look at the latest FBI indicments. No 70 year old made man or capo is gonna enforce his loan shark debts by his own. It isn't gonna happen now and it didn't happen 35 years ago also. That's the point of the mob, capos and bosses do not do their own dirty work, ever. Anyway, welcome to the place.
I wonder what the "quality" of these young associates is these days though.
Every generation seems to think the following generation is full of boneheads and deadbeats. The fact is there are still a lot of capable guys from the street to take over from the old guard. If you need proof, take the recent Howard Beach indictment with Ronnie Giallanzo from this year. Guys like Mike Palmaccio, Mike Padavona, Nicholas Festa, Ronnie Giallanzo, are part of the latest batch of made men. And throughout their 20s and 30s they were finding new ways of making money and staying, for the most part, low-key about it all.
Padavona has no federal convictions. And for the past 17 years this guy has operated a $3 million loanshark book, a home burglary crew, etc. Palmaccio ran a sports betting website taking in more than $8 million in wagers from 2009-2011, etc., etc.
There are a whole lot of other examples, but this is the most recent I can think of.
gohnjotti wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:57 am
Every generation seems to think the following generation is full of boneheads and deadbeats. The fact is there are still a lot of capable guys from the street to take over from the old guard. If you need proof, take the recent Howard Beach indictment with Ronnie Giallanzo from this year. Guys like Mike Palmaccio, Mike Padavona, Nicholas Festa, Ronnie Giallanzo, are part of the latest batch of made men. And throughout their 20s and 30s they were finding new ways of making money and staying, for the most part, low-key about it all.
Padavona has no federal convictions. And for the past 17 years this guy has operated a $3 million loanshark book, a home burglary crew, etc. Palmaccio ran a sports betting website taking in more than $8 million in wagers from 2009-2011, etc., etc.
There are a whole lot of other examples, but this is the most recent I can think of.
This guy Slava is from Europe so everything in Europe is better. LOL
However, in his defense, he is not all wrong. The smaller families like Detroit and Chicago are kind of a joke compared to the past. But, even though the New York Families are definitely not what they used to be, at least they are NOT a joke, especially the Genovese's and the Gambino's. They DO have some capable people so his statement is really only PARTIALLY correct. You really have to separate New York from the smaller Families when talking about the LCN as a whole because there really is a big difference in my opinion.
gohnjotti wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:57 am
Every generation seems to think the following generation is full of boneheads and deadbeats. The fact is there are still a lot of capable guys from the street to take over from the old guard. If you need proof, take the recent Howard Beach indictment with Ronnie Giallanzo from this year. Guys like Mike Palmaccio, Mike Padavona, Nicholas Festa, Ronnie Giallanzo, are part of the latest batch of made men. And throughout their 20s and 30s they were finding new ways of making money and staying, for the most part, low-key about it all.
Padavona has no federal convictions. And for the past 17 years this guy has operated a $3 million loanshark book, a home burglary crew, etc. Palmaccio ran a sports betting website taking in more than $8 million in wagers from 2009-2011, etc., etc.
There are a whole lot of other examples, but this is the most recent I can think of.
This guy Slava is from Europe so everything in Europe is better. LOL
However, in his defense, he is not all wrong. The smaller families like Detroit and Chicago are kind of a joke compared to the past. But, even though the New York Families are definitely not what they used to be, at least they are NOT a joke, especially the Genovese's and the Gambino's. They DO have some capable people so his statement is really only PARTIALLY correct. You really have to separate New York from the smaller Families when talking about the LCN as a whole because there really is a big difference in my opinion.
Good point. I don't know much about a lot of the smaller families, but it's strange how quick some of them were to keel over when you compare them to New York.
Thutmose wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:03 am
Yes the Soprano family is tough they murdered every informant in their crew and they had a war with NY mob, so they would be scary if not look so funny. When I said they are soft I mean the way they portray, and the part of the life the show focus on. For example Chris doesnt look scary but in real life he would be a horrible killer.
In real life he wouldn't kill much because Italian-American mobsters don't really kill many people anymore.
As far as the Sopranos are concerned, It's not just about how they acted and joked around, it's also their physical appearance. Big Pussy Bonpensiero almost got a heart attack when he tried to run away from the feds. Junior with his moldy old sweaters. Tony a fat middle aged guy in midlife crisis. Paulie was old. Christopher was a skinny junkie. Vito, Bobby... All of them old fat guys. In that regard, it's a realistic portrayal because that's how the modern LCN looks like. Italian-American mob is a suburban thing now, they run illegal gambling operations in white neighborhoods. Those guys didn't have the tough upbringing that the gangsters from southern Italy, Latin America or Eastern Europe had (or the American LCN members who grew up in the 20s and 30s).
This is in huge contrast to Gomorra where it's mostly young guys in their prime. Ciro, Genny, Conte, Enzo... And their crews are full of the guys their age in their 20s and 30s. They have automatic weapons, bombs, international connections etc.
In Eastern Europe, a lot of mobsters are ex-military men or train combat sports like MMA and boxing and work out. Eastern European mobs have a lot of big scary physically imposing guys and trained killers. Or the cartel guys in Latin America.
Let's face it, the American LCN has become some sort of a joke in the organized crime world or some sort of mascot if you want. They are not scary at all. I imagine that if I went to NY and some fat middle aged mafioso started to talk shit to me with that heavy Italian-American NY accent I would probably think it's some sort of prank and burst out laughing. I would play along and tell him that he's a "fugazzi" and that he should get a shinebox LOL.
Friend, I am not from US, either, but here`s my opinion. When it comes to Sopranos, the first season of that show was made in 1999, back then there were still plenty of mob murders, not like today. Also, you cant judge their physical condition based on the senior old guys, LCN is no more that strong, indeed, however there are still lots of big guy who can be used as muscle, guys like John Gottis grandson are also participate in combat sports and nobody would say they are not strong. In fact, I cant see any reason why american mobsters should be weaker than their Italian friends, they share a similar culture and young guys all like gym, the older guys with money and power maybe dont care about that so wherever you looks its similar, if you watched the movie version of Gomorra you will find there are plenty of fat old guys in Camorra, too. But I do share the same feeling with you that their senior members are generally younger, I assume thats because to become a Camorristi is dangerous LOL
As for your imagine, we both know you wouldnt do that
Confederate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:14 am
This guy Slava is from Europe so everything in Europe is better. LOL
Having a better organized crime is nothing to brag about. In fact, my own city and country don't have much urban street violence and everything has to be clean and organized here. There is some mob presence from Serbs and Albanians (plus some high profile Camorristi were hiding here during the Scampia feud) but it's mostly a transit country for them to traffic guns, people and drugs. We're the most economically developed country in Eastern Europe and pretty much an ethnically clean Slavic country too so no violent immigrant gangs either. A woman could walk here in any part of the city at any time of the day and feel safe. Very few people I know own a gun because no one needs to. So I'm not the "I'm from da tough streetz" kind of guy bragging about the toughness of local criminals.
I'm just saying that from what I read and saw (I've been to Naples and southern Italy and visited other Balkan countries), the mob from certain European countries is way more vicious than the American LCN.
Thutmose wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:02 am
In fact, I cant see any reason why american mobsters should be weaker than their Italian friends, they share a similar culture and young guys all like gym, the older guys with money and power maybe dont care about that so wherever you looks its similar, if you watched the movie version of Gomorra you will find there are plenty of fat old guys in Camorra, too. But I do share the same feeling with you that their senior members are generally younger, I assume thats because to become a Camorristi is dangerous LOL
The Camorristi in Naples grew up in a poorer and much more violent environment than the American LCN guys from New York. The young Camorristi ride around on bikes and spray building and people with automatic weapons, they kill much more people which means they have many more men experienced in killing and used to it. This isn't something positive obviously, but if we're speaking from the perspective of an organized crime group, the average up-and-coming Camorristi have much better qualities than the average LCN associates when it comes to being a criminal and a murderer.
As for your imagine, we both know you wouldnt do that
I didn't want to play some tough guy, obviously I wouldn't be doing that because it's dumb. I just wanted to illustrate that if I would meet some actual Italian-American mobster it would feel like some prank and I would instantly think of movies.
Let's be realistic though, if some tourist actually came to an Italian-American mob guy in NY and told him that he is a "fugazzi", what the hell could the Italian-American mobster do about it? If they killed or even just beat up a tourist this day and age the feds would be all over it and they know it. Murder/assault charges nicely wrapped in a RICO case. The LCN members are so scared of the feds these days that they very rarely use any violence at all. While if you talk crap in Naples you're going to get stabbed/shot quickly.
Slava wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:40 am
While if you talk crap in Naples you're going to get stabbed/shot quickly.
Can't imagine it being any different in a place like Howard Beach or Ozone Park, maybe not shot, but surely beat up or stabbed.
The big difference between the USA and the mob in other countries, even Canada, seems to be whether you will get killed instead of just assaulted. And life or death is a pretty big difference.
You can still get yourself killed here by the old mob, but you have to put some serious effort into being a pain in the ass. I'm guessing strict RICO enforcement is why this country is so "peaceful" when it comes to mob murders.
I think it's also because the general population of the country in the USA and Canada is much more disgusted by violence than in Southern Italy or the Balkans or Latin America.
In the USA and Western Europe if you just punch a guy in the public you can get serious assault charges. Also, people in the vicinity are going to be calling police quicker. I understand that there are places in the USA where it's more dangerous but it's mostly some black or Latin American ghettoes or some recent immigrant community, but in the middle class and upper American society there seems to be much less tolerance to violence than it used to be. It has become like this in my country in the last years too when as got more and more Westernized. I remember when I was growing up in the 90s and the 00s there used to be a lot of streets fights involving some skinheads or hooligans. Now you barely see any violence in my city anymore and people would be calling cops or filming things with mobile phones immediately if it happened, security cameras are everywhere too. People would quickly press charges if someone assaulted them.
Like I said I'm not an expert on America but from what I read it seems to me that there are no "old school" Italian-American neighborhoods anymore where people would turn a blind eye to public displays of mob violence. If the modern Italian-American mob were to start beating people in broad daylight there would surely be a lot of people ready to call the cops in an instant. Then the mobsters would face assault charges and folded into a RICO case that's a serious offense.
Back when the mob was in its peak regular people would also be getting into fights more and violence was seen as something more "common".
Slava wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:47 am
I think it's also because the general population of the country in the USA and Canada is much more disgusted by violence than in Southern Italy or the Balkans or Latin America.
In the USA and Western Europe if you just punch a guy in the public you can get serious assault charges. Also, people in the vicinity are going to be calling police quicker. I understand that there are places in the USA where it's more dangerous but it's mostly some black or Latin American ghettoes or some recent immigrant community, but in the middle class and upper American society there seems to be much less tolerance to violence than it used to be. It has become like this in my country in the last years too when as got more and more Westernized. I remember when I was growing up in the 90s and the 00s there used to be a lot of streets fights involving some skinheads or hooligans. Now you barely see any violence in my city anymore and people would be calling cops or filming things with mobile phones immediately if it happened, security cameras are everywhere too. People would quickly press charges if someone assaulted them.
Like I said I'm not an expert on America but from what I read it seems to me that there are no "old school" Italian-American neighborhoods anymore where people would turn a blind eye to public displays of mob violence. If the modern Italian-American mob were to start beating people in broad daylight there would surely be a lot of people ready to call the cops in an instant. Then the mobsters would face assault charges and folded into a RICO case that's a serious offense.
Back when the mob was in its peak regular people would also be getting into fights more and violence was seen as something more "common".
Yeah thats what I always thought about Western countries, safer and less tolerence to violence. But the data shows that America has a very high rate of murder, which is around 5/100000 per year, while Italy only get 0.7 of 100000 people murdered, which indicate Italy is pretty safe. It seems that you still have to distinguish the western countries while talking about violence and murder, Britain and Germany is safer while France and USA doesnt seem to be.
I do believe middle or higher class society in US is far from violent while the poor communities seems to be the opposite. Its pretty different from where I live. Here in China violence is not rare but only beating, means there are very few murder cases, which make the country a safe place in general.
Slava wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:47 am
I think it's also because the general population of the country in the USA and Canada is much more disgusted by violence than in Southern Italy or the Balkans or Latin America.
I'm not sure about this because when it comes to organized crime Canada is pretty goddamn violent, despite its rep as a "safe" country.
Gangsters are murderous everywhere, I imagine they don't do it in America as much because they can't get away with it here (look what the Meldish killing alone has already lead to ). Though I'm sure the younger generation really is less violent than guys who had to grow up in a poor neighborhood in the 1920s. Still, psychopathy and greed can be present in everyone, no matter how soft their upbringing is. For example, Roy DeMeo's upbringing seems to have been pretty nice.
You can't blame everything on a shitty childhood. Some people are just assholes.
