General Mob Questions

[HairyKnuckles]

Anyone ever hear of a Genovese soldier named James Darienza? It is from a 1983 list of supposed Genovese members from the book "Organized crime in America : hearings before the Senate". Could be a nickname or a guy who wasn't really even a member? I've never seen that name before.

We have the same first name though so he was probably a cool guy.

Haha...yeah probably a cool guy.

I have him listed as a suspected member. He is not listed as a made guy prior to that LE chart from 1983 and that list is known to be not fully accurate. He was probably just an associate. True name James J. Darienzo. He was probably a gambler. Retired to Las Vegas. His son was a homicide detective for the New York Police Department. Sr died in 1996, his son in 2015.

Name: James J Darienzo
State of Issue: New York
Date of Birth: Thursday November 05, 1908
Date of Death: Wednesday January 24, 1996
Est. Age at Death: 87 years, 2 months, 19 days
Last known residence:
City: Las Vegas
County: Clark
State: Nevada

[Raven]

Great info. Thanks Hairy!

[gohnjotti]

Who are some past/present members of the Joseph DeSimone crew in the Bonanno family? Where do they operate? Thanks in advance.

All I can really name who are alive today are Steven DeSimone, Joseph's grandson, and that Frank Adamo guy who was listed as acting capo in July 2004.

[HairyKnuckles]

Who are some past/present members of the Joseph DeSimone crew in the Bonanno family? Where do they operate? Thanks in advance.

All I can really name who are alive today are Steven DeSimone, Joseph's grandson, and that Frank Adamo guy who was listed as acting capo in July 2004.

Alfred Altadonna, the owner of the CasaBlanca restaurant, was at some point in DeSimone´s crew. He is still alive today and lives in Florida if I´m not mistaken.

[Ivan]

What's the total number of made guys from all ~30 families who have flipped combined? A friend wants to know.

[Thutmose]

Hi, fellas, Im new here and I would like to ask about the average age of mobsters. Read the charts and found that most made guys are in their 60s to 80s, although I know these guys still can manage their businesses, how do mob keep its position in the underworld with them? I mean, you need the capability of violence to protect your rackets from other criminals, and certain violence should be acted when necessary, like beat somebody up when he doesnt pay you. Its just confusing to me that a powerful organized crime organization is full of old men and 40 seems to be a very young age among them. So, do they have a bunch of young associates whos willing to carry out violence for them in some beating or even hits?

[Slava]

Hi, fellas, Im new here and I would like to ask about the average age of mobsters. Read the charts and found that most made guys are in their 60s to 80s, although I know these guys still can manage their businesses, how do mob keep its position in the underworld with them? I mean, you need the capability of violence to protect your rackets from other criminals, and certain violence should be acted when necessary, like beat somebody up when he doesnt pay you. Its just confusing to me that a powerful organized crime organization is full of old men and 40 seems to be a very young age among them. So, do they have a bunch of young associates whos willing to carry out violence for them in some beating or even hits?

This is something that interests me as well. I guess it's because when you're a made man you're basically a made man for life and these old guys stay on the charts, especially now when there aren't as many killings in the American cosa nostra. So out of those 100/200 made men a lot of them are old farts who probably don't have much use for the family but until they die out they can't replace them with new ones.

The mob has some younger associates but not as many as they used to have. I don't see where they can recruit many more Italian-Americans these days.

So while these families appear to be large due to their huge "formal" membership they probably don't have a lot of actual muscle anymore. They also aren't as trigger happy as they used to be because they're under constant surveillance by the feds who would go hard on them if they started murdering people again.

I remember when the Gambinos had their problems with that Albanian gang in the 00s Squitieri gathered 20 men to confront them but ultimately had to back off. The Albanian Rudaj organization had like 20 or 30 members but they were all young killers and the Italian mob wasn't able to retaliate.

Let's face it, when it comes to being feared the modern Italian-American mob is one of the least feared criminal organizations out there. You only need to look at the Sopranos and compare it to Gomorra (the series) to see the difference between American and European organized crime and how much scarier the European mobsters look.

[Slava]

Thanks but it didnt affect me that much, but I believe that the people around here who were close in that situation are Alexfromsouth and Strax. Can you believe that there was no real organized crime on the Balkans until the conflict or should i say until the late q980s and early 90s?! I mean there were obviously people on the other side of the tracks but they all operated in foreign countries, never in their homelands.

This was due to the Communist regime which was totalitarian and was harsh on organized crime. Just like the mafia was virtually extinguished during the Mussolini's Fascist regime in Italy.

Totalitarian regimes don't need a lot of evidence to put the known mobsters to jail. It's virtually impossible for an organized crime organization to function under a regime like the socialist Yugoslavia 1945-1989.

Historically, there was a lot of criminal activity in the Balkans though going back to the Ottoman times with hajduks who were Christian bandits and brigands fighting and robbing the Ottomans (Turks).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajduk

[Raven]

What's the total number of made guys from all ~30 families who have flipped combined? A friend wants to know.

This guy runs a damn good website.

http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.c ... mants.html

[AlexfromSouth]

Hi, fellas, Im new here and I would like to ask about the average age of mobsters. Read the charts and found that most made guys are in their 60s to 80s, although I know these guys still can manage their businesses, how do mob keep its position in the underworld with them? I mean, you need the capability of violence to protect your rackets from other criminals, and certain violence should be acted when necessary, like beat somebody up when he doesnt pay you. Its just confusing to me that a powerful organized crime organization is full of old men and 40 seems to be a very young age among them. So, do they have a bunch of young associates whos willing to carry out violence for them in some beating or even hits?

This is something that interests me as well. I guess it's because when you're a made man you're basically a made man for life and these old guys stay on the charts, especially now when there aren't as many killings in the American cosa nostra. So out of those 100/200 made men a lot of them are old farts who probably don't have much use for the family but until they die out they can't replace them with new ones.

The mob has some younger associates but not as many as they used to have. I don't see where they can recruit many more Italian-Americans these days.

So while these families appear to be large due to their huge "formal" membership they probably don't have a lot of actual muscle anymore. They also aren't as trigger happy as they used to be because they're under constant surveillance by the feds who would go hard on them if they started murdering people again.

I remember when the Gambinos had their problems with that Albanian gang in the 00s Squitieri gathered 20 men to confront them but ultimately had to back off. The Albanian Rudaj organization had like 20 or 30 members but they were all young killers and the Italian mob wasn't able to retaliate.

Let's face it, when it comes to being feared the modern Italian-American mob is one of the least feared criminal organizations out there. You only need to look at the Sopranos and compare it to Gomorra (the series) to see the difference between American and European organized crime and how much scarier the European mobsters look.

Slava where are you from?

[Slava]

Slava where are you from?

Slovenia, why?

[Thutmose]

Hi, fellas, Im new here and I would like to ask about the average age of mobsters. Read the charts and found that most made guys are in their 60s to 80s, although I know these guys still can manage their businesses, how do mob keep its position in the underworld with them? I mean, you need the capability of violence to protect your rackets from other criminals, and certain violence should be acted when necessary, like beat somebody up when he doesnt pay you. Its just confusing to me that a powerful organized crime organization is full of old men and 40 seems to be a very young age among them. So, do they have a bunch of young associates whos willing to carry out violence for them in some beating or even hits?

This is something that interests me as well. I guess it's because when you're a made man you're basically a made man for life and these old guys stay on the charts, especially now when there aren't as many killings in the American cosa nostra. So out of those 100/200 made men a lot of them are old farts who probably don't have much use for the family but until they die out they can't replace them with new ones.

The mob has some younger associates but not as many as they used to have. I don't see where they can recruit many more Italian-Americans these days.

So while these families appear to be large due to their huge "formal" membership they probably don't have a lot of actual muscle anymore. They also aren't as trigger happy as they used to be because they're under constant surveillance by the feds who would go hard on them if they started murdering people again.

I remember when the Gambinos had their problems with that Albanian gang in the 00s Squitieri gathered 20 men to confront them but ultimately had to back off. The Albanian Rudaj organization had like 20 or 30 members but they were all young killers and the Italian mob wasn't able to retaliate.

Let's face it, when it comes to being feared the modern Italian-American mob is one of the least feared criminal organizations out there. You only need to look at the Sopranos and compare it to Gomorra (the series) to see the difference between American and European organized crime and how much scarier the European mobsters look.

Thank you for your reply. Are these old fellas still active in the business? If they are I think they have to be using younger gangsters to do their dirty work. I agree cosa nostra in US is much less powerful now and they seems to lack new blood, but I think they still larger than other ethnic groups, at least in NYC. That Albanian thing, I remember one article says they had a sitdown in a new jersey gas station, Squitieri brought 20 guys but the Albanians only got 6 and they were frightened.
As for the Sopranos, I think its because the show is basically showing the soft side of the mob, in season2 Tony went to Naples and the Camorra member in the show wasnt that much scary, too.

[Slava]

Thank you for your reply. Are these old fellas still active in the business? If they are I think they have to be using younger gangsters to do their dirty work. I agree cosa nostra in US is much less powerful now and they seems to lack new blood, but I think they still larger than other ethnic groups, at least in NYC.

I don't know how active individual guys are, you need to wait for someone who knows more about these guys to reply.

I think they're definitely larger that other ethnic group mobs, but I don't think this is a good thing at all with RICO around. Bunch of old or incapable guys with a lot of notoriety and a target on their back. It's a terrible structure for a crime group.

That Albanian thing, I remember one article says they had a sitdown in a new jersey gas station, Squitieri brought 20 guys but the Albanians only got 6 and they were frightened.

They were scared to death. The Albanians did all kinds of crazy things and the Gambino's never retaliated. I guess you could say it was smart from the Gambino's to not get into a useless conflict but at the end it's because of things like that why nobody fears the Italian-American mob anymore so their reputation got a dent long term. The Albanians disrespected mob social clubs, beat up their associates and pointed a gun at their boss. If that was the Italian-American mob from the 60s they would never get away with that.

As for the Sopranos, I think its because the show is basically showing the soft side of the mob, in season2 Tony went to Naples and the Camorra member in the show wasnt that much scary, too.

The Sopranos actually made the Italian-American mob look much more vicious and more successful than they are. Much more people were killed by the mob in the Sopranos than the number of the actual mob murders of ALL LCN families during that time frame (1999-2007). Also, things like the Soprano mob guys shooting the Columbians and robbing them, Christopher calling black people all kinds of names in some ghetto and nobody retaliating, mob members killing civilians on multiple occassions, Tony beating up some guy in broad daylight with tons of witnesses around etc. etc. The mob wouldn't be able to get away with such things these days, no way.

[Thutmose]

Thank you for your reply. Are these old fellas still active in the business? If they are I think they have to be using younger gangsters to do their dirty work. I agree cosa nostra in US is much less powerful now and they seems to lack new blood, but I think they still larger than other ethnic groups, at least in NYC.

I don't know how active individual guys are, you need to wait for someone who knows more about these guys to reply.

I think they're definitely larger that other ethnic group mobs, but I don't think this is a good thing at all with RICO around. Bunch of old or incapable guys with a lot of notoriety and a target on their back. It's a terrible structure for a crime group.

That Albanian thing, I remember one article says they had a sitdown in a new jersey gas station, Squitieri brought 20 guys but the Albanians only got 6 and they were frightened.

They were scared to death. The Albanians did all kinds of crazy things and the Gambino's never retaliated. I guess you could say it was smart from the Gambino's to not get into a useless conflict but at the end it's because of things like that why nobody fears the Italian-American mob anymore so their reputation got a dent long term. The Albanians disrespected mob social clubs, beat up their associates and pointed a gun at their boss. If that was the Italian-American mob from the 60s they would never get away with that.

As for the Sopranos, I think its because the show is basically showing the soft side of the mob, in season2 Tony went to Naples and the Camorra member in the show wasnt that much scary, too.

The Sopranos actually made the Italian-American mob look much more vicious and more successful than they are. Much more people were killed by the mob in the Sopranos than the number of the actual mob murders of ALL LCN families during that time frame (1999-2007). Also, things like the Soprano mob guys shooting the Columbians and robbing them, Christopher calling black people all kinds of names in some ghetto and nobody retaliating, mob members killing civilians on multiple occassions, Tony beating up some guy in broad daylight with tons of witnesses around etc. etc. The mob wouldn't be able to get away with such things these days, no way.

Yes the Soprano family is tough they murdered every informant in their crew and they had a war with NY mob, so they would be scary if not look so funny. When I said they are soft I mean the way they portray, and the part of the life the show focus on. For example Chris doesnt look scary but in real life he would be a horrible killer.

[Slava]

Yes the Soprano family is tough they murdered every informant in their crew and they had a war with NY mob, so they would be scary if not look so funny. When I said they are soft I mean the way they portray, and the part of the life the show focus on. For example Chris doesnt look scary but in real life he would be a horrible killer.

In real life he wouldn't kill much because Italian-American mobsters don't really kill many people anymore.

As far as the Sopranos are concerned, It's not just about how they acted and joked around, it's also their physical appearance. Big Pussy Bonpensiero almost got a heart attack when he tried to run away from the feds. Junior with his moldy old sweaters. Tony a fat middle aged guy in midlife crisis. Paulie was old. Christopher was a skinny junkie. Vito, Bobby... All of them old fat guys. In that regard, it's a realistic portrayal because that's how the modern LCN looks like. Italian-American mob is a suburban thing now, they run illegal gambling operations in white neighborhoods. Those guys didn't have the tough upbringing that the gangsters from southern Italy, Latin America or Eastern Europe had (or the American LCN members who grew up in the 20s and 30s).

This is in huge contrast to Gomorra where it's mostly young guys in their prime. Ciro, Genny, Conte, Enzo... And their crews are full of the guys their age in their 20s and 30s. They have automatic weapons, bombs, international connections etc.

In Eastern Europe, a lot of mobsters are ex-military men or train combat sports like MMA and boxing and work out. Eastern European mobs have a lot of big scary physically imposing guys and trained killers. Or the cartel guys in Latin America.

Let's face it, the American LCN has become some sort of a joke in the organized crime world or some sort of mascot if you want. They are not scary at all. I imagine that if I went to NY and some fat middle aged mafioso started to talk shit to me with that heavy Italian-American NY accent I would probably think it's some sort of prank and burst out laughing. I would play along and tell him that he's a "fugazzi" and that he should get a shinebox LOL.