Present Day Chicago Outfit

[Snakes]

I can't speak for how present he is on the streets because I don't live in the city but I assume that as long as he was the top guy he could probably set his own level of visibility. How visible was DiFronzo in the nineties and early thousands?

[Frank]

Yes under the radar is key to their survival. I guess we will find out in a few years down the road how healthy an organization they are. Maybe they are going strong and nobody knows and they like it that way.

[Snakes]

Who knows? They've seemingly never been as concerned about making guys as the other families. A very hard organization to read. They always have been, it's part of what drew me to them as opposed to the east coast families.

[Pete]

Nick is a guy you don't hear too much about. He's managed to stay under the radar for the most part.

Yeah you don't here too much but he definitely is a guy with a lot of juice. When he's around all the guys come up to him and kiss his ass

[Pete]

I can't speak for how present he is on the streets because I don't live in the city but I assume that as long as he was the top guy he could probably set his own level of visibility. How visible was DiFronzo in the nineties and early thousands?

Johnny was actually around a lot. He would be at all the neighborhood bars with his brother and other outfit guys. When I stopped seeing him is when I started hearing he was slipping. That was within the last 5 years or so when Johnny stopped going around to all the hangouts

[Pete]

As you said though snakes being around the neighborhood doesn't necessarily mean anything

[smoker]

Thanks for the birth dates Cavita. So Cautadella is the youngest of the reported current leadership at 65. Now if Solly stays at boss for 10 years he would be 88,Vena 78 and Cautadella 75. They definitely need some young blood or they will be Pittsburgh or Cleveland in around 10 years. I read a list of possible members and only a few were under 60.

They are certainly heading that way. The youngest confirmed made men I can think of like magnafichi are in their 50's. Supposedly difronzo is the one who put the brakes on making new guys back in the 90's

This is nonsense. The power was turned over to Apes Monteleone to operate with impunity as he pleased, make whoever he wanted, etc. DiFronzo merely shelved a few members of HIS crew & stopped associating on the street with soldiers (ie no more Piemonte Ford pow wows, etc.). When people say he "put the brakes on making new guys" that is just some outdated nonsense & greatly exaggerated because people are guessing, due to the fact that NO ONE FLIPS in the Outfit. It gets grossly exaggerated. And that's the way the Mafia works. It just doesn't stop because some depressed fuck doesn't want it to continue. The Outfit is a large organization who's members have families to feed. Guys are constantly coming in & out of prison & the street is how they make their money. You can't tell a capo "stop making guys", they'll just turn on you & someone else will step up. DiFronzo turned over power to Monteleone, he was the power for the majority of the 90s, and you can bet he made people before he died. And DiFronzo "pulled back" only when his son passed away. He was making people up until 1992. There was a ceremony that he & Carlisi held at Spavone's in Bloomingdale in '92.

The fact of the matter is that NO MADE GUYS FLIP in the Outfit. They just swallow their sentences. Nick Calabrese & Gerry Scarpelli (who killed himself rather than testify or go to jail) are the blackest of sheep. So there just isn't any way to know's made. You need multiple people who have been present at these ceremonies to come forward & give names.

[smoker]

I also gotta disagree that "they aren't concerned with making guys". I personally believe that there have been many making ceremonies over the past 25 years. But that is my personal opinion.

[Snakes]

Who did you hear got made in '92? I've never heard that before. I never really bought that DiFronzo held off on making guys but they did seem to make them less frequently than other families. Guys like Frank Sr, Tocco, and Infelise would have been made years earlier in other families but it just seems like they put less of a priority on it.

[cavita]

I felt, especially in the last forty years, that the Outfit brings guys in while in their 20s and cultivates them until they're perhaps in their 50s before even considering making them. Also as some LE officials explained years ago they felt that the Outfit was making themselves leaner by design to simplify things and perhaps limit information that gets out. This seems more plausible and if that's in fact the case, it's been working for them.

[smoker]

^^^^bingo, took the words out of my mouth (somewhat). They don't just give out badges in Chicago.

Frank Calabrese Sr was a LaPietra Street Crew member for years prior to getting his button. He was arguably Chinatown's most efficient juice guy. He had to prove worth & loyalty through multiple arrests & tribulations prior to getting his button. He needed to prove that he was a gatherer of men & could get a group of guys under him & run a franchise on his own. The prerequisite for getting made is more demanding than other families. You either get made later on or not at all.

But I don't agree that they've gotten leaner, I believe that they refreshed their ranks over the past decade (again, a personal opinion), and John DiFronzo's "departure from the Outfit" in the 90s is greatly exaggerated. He was on surveillance countless times with Monteleone in the Piemonte Ford lots in the mid to late 90s. He may have taken a few years off in the mid 90s cause of personal tragedy, also may have stopped talking with soldiers directly, but the idea that he tried to kill the Outfit or prevent guys from earning without any repercussion whatsoever is ridiculous, doesn't work that way. he would have been the one to go instead of Hatch & Zizzo if that were true.

[Frank]

I know one thing that's for certain he has kept the Outfit out of the news compared to most of the previous bosses. Look at all the hits under the Accardo Aiuppa Cerone leadership.

[Wiseguy]

First, an Outfit guy doesn't have to publically flip, take the witness stand, and then go into witness protection to give the feds info on who's made. Don't assume because only one or two made guys have flipped in Chicago that others aren't feeding info to law enforcement. It happens in all the families and there's little reason to think Chicago is an exception.

Second, by probably a combination of attrition and strategic downsizing, the Outfit has gotten leaner. That's impossible to deny and the feds have said so. Just within the last 20 years they've lost a lot of members and, even if they have still been making guys, it's unlikely they've been able to keep up with those that have passed on. The latest figures for members and associates makes the modern-day Outfit about the size of the New England or Philadelphia families. Meaning it's one of a handful of small remaining families outside New York. Another sign the Chicago mob has gotten leaner is that it's gone from 7 or 8 crews to 4.

[Pete]

First, an Outfit guy doesn't have to publically flip, take the witness stand, and then go into witness protection to give the feds info on who's made. Don't assume because only one or two made guys have flipped in Chicago that others aren't feeding info to law enforcement. It happens in all the families and there's little reason to think Chicago is an exception.

Second, by probably a combination of attrition and strategic downsizing, the Outfit has gotten leaner. That's impossible to deny and the feds have said so. Just within the last 20 years they've lost a lot of members and, even if they have still been making guys, it's unlikely they've been able to keep up with those that have passed on. The latest figures for members and associates makes the modern-day Outfit about the size of the New England or Philadelphia families. Meaning it's one of a handful of small remaining families outside New York. Another sign the Chicago mob has gotten leaner is that it's gone from 7 or 8 crews to 4.

Don't forget there were two sources identified by the FBI one supposedly a member that has been feeding them info. I believe that's where that info about sarno being behind the zizzo hit came from. Those sources won't be outed until they need to be for a prosecution

[Pete]

http://abc7chicago.com/archive/7446674/

Article discussing the two informants