Cleveland circa '85

[Ivan]

Was Carmen Zagaria a member?

No he didn't want to be

Did he die in jail? His drug ring with Graewe was fucking brutal. How many people did they kill?

[Angelo Santino]

You listed James Decore as part of the Hotel Sterling Crew, the FBI had him as made I believe.

one in hte hotel sterling crew hes not made ,possibly was his father or another realtive who was also a union guy but i doubt either was made just my take

I'm sorry just so I'm clear: two James Decores, neither made?

[Stroccos]

Was Carmen Zagaria a member?

No he didn't want to be

Did he die in jail? His drug ring with Graewe was fucking brutal. How many people did they kill?

No he flipped and joined witsec and put the nail in the coffin of sinito , gallo and lonardo and of course his own crew. quite of few not sure of the exact number

[Ivan]

Was Carmen Zagaria a member?

No he didn't want to be

Did he die in jail? His drug ring with Graewe was fucking brutal. How many people did they kill?

No he flipped and joined witsec and put the nail in the coffin of sinito , gallo and lonardo and of course his own crew. quite of few not sure of the exact number

Oh I totally forgot about him flipping, you're right. People credit Greene with killing off the Cleveland family for some reason, but it was really Zagaria.

[Ivan]

This article says the Zagaria ring killed at least 7 people:

http://aboutthemafia.com/cleveland-mafi ... assed-away

[Stroccos]

This article says the Zagaria ring killed at least 7 people:

http://aboutthemafia.com/cleveland-mafi ... assed-away

That sounds about right ,

[Angelo Santino]

OK so Zagaria is an associate. I'll update that.

Can you explain a little more the DeCore thing, your wording was ambiguous but I believe you said there were indeed two James DeCore's, one is an associate of the Sterling Hotel or whatever crew, and the other one (that was listed as made on the Cleveland chart photo as Jam- DeCa-), where do I place him?

[Confederate]

Before I ask my question, I would like to say that the Charts and general knowledge of the American Mafia is very impressive on this Site. Much better than the Gangsterbb Site which wasn't each worth joining after looking at all the ridiculous bullshit on there. This Site is much better to learn more about the American Mafia. Seems to have serious researchers on here which leads to my question:

How do you REALLY know who was considered a made guy versus an associate? Is it an educated guess many times? I realize that some guys are quite obviously made but a lot of the rank and file would seem to be ambiguous. No? After all, it is a secret society at least was in the past.
Do you assess your opinion about who was made based upon FBI Documents which may be inaccurate sometimes because some of the Informants are not made and may only be guessing OR they may be lying in order to sound impressive to the Feds.
I was just wondering how some of you guys that are researchers go about differentiating a made guy from an associate, especially in New York.
I think the smaller Families like the ones that were in the South or the ones out in the far West would be easier.

[Stroccos]

OK so Zagaria is an associate. I'll update that.

Can you explain a little more the DeCore thing, your wording was ambiguous but I believe you said there were indeed two James DeCore's, one is an associate of the Sterling Hotel or whatever crew, and the other one (that was listed as made on the Cleveland chart photo as Jam- DeCa-), where do I place him?

sorry be busy with that cunt irma , we have our home in flordia and been dealing with that shit from Ohio/pa . first hurricane season for us and we decicded to spend some time in PA and Ohio. so i had to deal with that crap

James decore in the hotel sterling crew was young he was like 40, he was in local 310 as a forman, the james decore from the 1965 chart was a union officer in the concrete union , I am guessing it maybe his son or sometype of realtive , the younger decore def is not made , the older one, if it could def be JAM DECon the chart . if it is , we probably have to order the fbi file , my guess he is not made

Zagaria was nothing in 85 , just a snitch .

[Angelo Santino]

OK so Zagaria is an associate. I'll update that.

Can you explain a little more the DeCore thing, your wording was ambiguous but I believe you said there were indeed two James DeCore's, one is an associate of the Sterling Hotel or whatever crew, and the other one (that was listed as made on the Cleveland chart photo as Jam- DeCa-), where do I place him?

sorry be busy with that cunt irma , we have our home in flordia and been dealing with that shit from Ohio/pa . first hurricane season for us and we decicded to spend some time in PA and Ohio. so i had to deal with that crap

James decore in the hotel sterling crew was young he was like 40, he was in local 310 as a forman, the james decore from the 1965 chart was a union officer in the concrete union , it maybe his son or sometype of realtive ,

Zagaria was nothing in 85 , just a snitch .

Boarded up my windows and doors today. My boxer-pitbull hates thunder and will probably have a heart attack if I don't give her anti-anxiety medication through Monday. And behind Irma there's Jose and behind him another tropical storm with potential to become a hurricane. I can't wait to be back in Asia. When I was kid hurricanes were fun, when you're an adult and you own property it takes on a totally different perspective. Fucking roof comes off and I'm gonna be standing there making an L sign on my forehead, power's gonna be out for weeks.

Didn't Zagaria help bring down Gallo if not Cleveland?

After Lonardo was convicted and became an informant, was there another underboss appointed? It seems doubtful as by 1985 they're down to 5 active members and that's including Dominic Lonardo, what is his story? Cleveland or Buffalo soldier?

[Stroccos]

How many made members were on the street and active in 1985?

Off the top of my head That we know for sure were made
Joe loose Iacobacci
Russel papaladdo
Peanuts tronolone
Bones Batista
Tony panzerella may have still been running his gambling operation
Dominic Lonardo (made in buffalo according to his brother )

So

1) Dominic Lonardo is/was a Buffalo Family member?
2) The majority of the crews were handled by Iacobacci and Papalardo with Battista and Panzerella hanging onto the last vestiges of their rackets?
3) Member sections: Admin, Captains, soldiers, inactive? With points on who was incarcerated (such as the captains). Putting aside the associates, how should we organize the made members?

1 i would guess he transfered back to cleveland,
2 yeah tronolone , rockman ( unoffical consiglere ) paplardo and iacobacci were captains , basically living out there glory years , battista was running bookmaking operations and still crazy probably still under clevelsnd flag , panzarella may of been back and forth from flordida active in numbers , his son mike was arrested in hotel sterling bust .
3 maybe we just show the active made guys , have a semi retired / invactive area and have a prison section

[Angelo Santino]

Were Papalardo and Iacobacci captains officially in 1985? Do we know who was under each of them?

Agreed on chart and I'm already on that: The left side will show the former admins and underneath them the 4 recent captains- Gallo, Sinito, Calandra, Liberatore and their crews (see page 1). On the right side will be the inactive members and current crews. It's subject to change.

[Stroccos]

Were Papalardo and Iacobacci captains officially in 1985? Do we know who was under each of them?

Agreed on chart and I'm already on that: The left side will show the former admins and underneath them the 4 recent captains- Gallo, Sinito, Calandra, Liberatore and their crews (see page 1). On the right side will be the inactive members and current crews. It's subject to change.

we could show crews/ people under indictment , many of these guys got indicted in 85 as well, for example papalardo indicted in 85 and hotel sterling crew got busted also , sanzo also went down in 85

yeah they were if only by there was noone else left lol they took over for gallo and sinito , yeah we can set up some guys under them. remeber paplardo and iacobacci were both indicted in the 80's and tronlone was inidcted on the commisson case

[Angelo Santino]

Were Papalardo and Iacobacci captains officially in 1985? Do we know who was under each of them?

Agreed on chart and I'm already on that: The left side will show the former admins and underneath them the 4 recent captains- Gallo, Sinito, Calandra, Liberatore and their crews (see page 1). On the right side will be the inactive members and current crews. It's subject to change.

we could show crews/ people under indictment , many of these guys got indicted in 85 as well, for example papalardo indicted in 85 and hotel sterling crew got busted also , sanzo also went down in 85

yeah they were if only by there was noone else left lol they took over for gallo and sinito , yeah we can set up some guys under them. remeber paplardo and iacobacci were both indicted in the 80's and tronlone was inidcted on the commisson case

If there's a lineage between Gallo-Papalardo and sinito-iaccobaci we'll have to show that. Any other crew continuities for Libertore and Calandra?

I'm trying to have the guys on the left be the former (pre-85ish) while the right side focus' on the current. May not be possible but I sent you an example of what I'm attempting.

[Stroccos]

OK so Zagaria is an associate. I'll update that.

Can you explain a little more the DeCore thing, your wording was ambiguous but I believe you said there were indeed two James DeCore's, one is an associate of the Sterling Hotel or whatever crew, and the other one (that was listed as made on the Cleveland chart photo as Jam- DeCa-), where do I place him?

sorry be busy with that cunt irma , we have our home in flordia and been dealing with that shit from Ohio/pa . first hurricane season for us and we decicded to spend some time in PA and Ohio. so i had to deal with that crap

James decore in the hotel sterling crew was young he was like 40, he was in local 310 as a forman, the james decore from the 1965 chart was a union officer in the concrete union , it maybe his son or sometype of realtive ,

Zagaria was nothing in 85 , just a snitch .

Boarded up my windows and doors today. My boxer-pitbull hates thunder and will probably have a heart attack if I don't give her anti-anxiety medication through Monday. And behind Irma there's Jose and behind him another tropical storm with potential to become a hurricane. I can't wait to be back in Asia. When I was kid hurricanes were fun, when you're an adult and you own property it takes on a totally different perspective. Fucking roof comes off and I'm gonna be standing there making an L sign on my forehead, power's gonna be out for weeks.

Didn't Zagaria help bring down Gallo if not Cleveland?

After Lonardo was convicted and became an informant, was there another underboss appointed? It seems doubtful as by 1985 they're down to 5 active members and that's including Dominic Lonardo, what is his story? Cleveland or Buffalo soldier?

good luck to you and your dog, hopefully it isnt to bad. if my place destroyed i am pushing my wife for a vegas move lol

if we believe angelo lonardo that he was made in buffalo my guess would be he transferred back to cleveland. he was living in MIami and he was the pointman for the cocaine operation .

I dont think so , tronolone was under indictment in 86 ,rockman indicted in 85 as well, the fanily was on life support