Gene Gotti re-establishing control of Gotti Regime.

[Camo]

The Sicilian mafia is under way more pressure than the US members. They can and do get hit with prison sentences for even talking to another member or associate and no law like that exists in the US. Then once they're in prison they can get hit with a 41-bis and are basically cut off from the entire world. They're under way more scrutiny and Sicilian members do flip all the time now. It's a bigger uphill battle for Italian LE though because the mafia is so ingrained and all over the island.

I do agree with you thought that "Sicilian" does not mean sophisticated and plenty of them are thuggish. A big difference with the Sicilians is they are more clannish and take the traditional mafia values more seriously. Lanni was from the Sicilian faction but it should be pointed out he doesn't appear to be Sicilian himself. Still he represents them and as you said it shows their group isn't worlds different from other NY mobsters.

If we're purely talking about Bosses then i'd agree with this view but Italy is still Utopia for European Criminals with its intense corruption. The difference is Americans accepting that they are at best Middle Class bookmakers and loansharks while certain Sicilians see themselves as international drug traffickers. The streets of Sicily are still run by middleclass bookmakers and loansharks and lower level goons, we just don't hear about them because they aren't as interesting as Bosses.

Apologies i thought Lanni was Sicilian because y'all (not you B.) were talking about it as a big badass Sicilian Intercontinental Network bust. Reading about the Corelonesi for instance the only difference i see is corruptibility of the Country they were in.

[JakeTheSnake630]

I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.

Didn't the last bust involving these "sophistacted" Sicilians have a Gambino Captain pictured buying gas to burn down a restaraunt? I don't know why people assume they are sophisticated, if they are from areas with vast corruption like Italy then they aren't faced with the same LE pressure as America. That's why they suffer less consequences and flip less they aren't somehow inherently better at crime than others, the State dictates the level criminals can reach as we've seen with every top tier criminal ever: Pablo Escobar, El Chapo, Riina.

This story is ridiculous but so is the idea of certain criminals being "sophisticated" because they were born in Sicily. They are all violent idiots they are just more protected in certain areas.

Did Joe Lanni do that on orders from the Sicilian faction? I thought that was a reaction to being asked to leave the restaurant. I have heard he was coked up and/or drunk. Even if he got the order from Dom or Lorenzo I doubt they wanted it carried out that way. Dom C maybe semi retired, but the guy has been labeled as the official boss for almost 15 years and we hardly even have a picture of him. I don't mean that all Sicilian born guys are more sophisticated but for some of the higher up Sicilians they seem to be more shadowy and low key than say the gotti faction. It was not meant as a general statement.

[Camo]

I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.

Didn't the last bust involving these "sophistacted" Sicilians have a Gambino Captain pictured buying gas to burn down a restaraunt? I don't know why people assume they are sophisticated, if they are from areas with vast corruption like Italy then they aren't faced with the same LE pressure as America. That's why they suffer less consequences and flip less they aren't somehow inherently better at crime than others, the State dictates the level criminals can reach as we've seen with every top tier criminal ever: Pablo Escobar, El Chapo, Riina.

This story is ridiculous but so is the idea of certain criminals being "sophisticated" because they were born in Sicily. They are all violent idiots they are just more protected in certain areas.

Did Joe Lanni do that on orders from the Sicilian faction? I thought that was a reaction to being asked to leave the restaurant. I have heard he was coked up and/or drunk. Even if he got the order from Dom or Lorenzo I doubt they wanted it carried out that way. Dom C maybe semi retired, but the guy has been labeled as the official boss for almost 15 years and we hardly even have a picture of him. I don't mean that all Sicilian born guys are more sophisticated but for some of the higher up Sicilians they seem to be more shadowy and low key than say the gotti faction. It was not meant as a general statement.

Hasn't Barney lasted around as long with a similar lack of information? Should we call him part of the sophisticated Sicilian faction?

Most of the "American" Gambino members have been very quiet during the same time. Which suggests a lack of acticity, a general change in operation or i guess something about the zips being sophisticated. When was the last bust of a "Gotti Faction" member? Pretty sure John Gambino and Lorenzo Mannino were hit just as hard as others during that era.

[JakeTheSnake630]

I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.

Didn't the last bust involving these "sophistacted" Sicilians have a Gambino Captain pictured buying gas to burn down a restaraunt? I don't know why people assume they are sophisticated, if they are from areas with vast corruption like Italy then they aren't faced with the same LE pressure as America. That's why they suffer less consequences and flip less they aren't somehow inherently better at crime than others, the State dictates the level criminals can reach as we've seen with every top tier criminal ever: Pablo Escobar, El Chapo, Riina.

This story is ridiculous but so is the idea of certain criminals being "sophisticated" because they were born in Sicily. They are all violent idiots they are just more protected in certain areas.

Did Joe Lanni do that on orders from the Sicilian faction? I thought that was a reaction to being asked to leave the restaurant. I have heard he was coked up and/or drunk. Even if he got the order from Dom or Lorenzo I doubt they wanted it carried out that way. Dom C maybe semi retired, but the guy has been labeled as the official boss for almost 15 years and we hardly even have a picture of him. I don't mean that all Sicilian born guys are more sophisticated but for some of the higher up Sicilians they seem to be more shadowy and low key than say the gotti faction. It was not meant as a general statement.

Hasn't Barney lasted around as long with a similar lack of information? Should we call him part of the sophisticated Sicilian faction?

Most of the "American" Gambino members have been very quiet during the same time. Which suggests a lack of acticity, a general change in operation or i guess something about the zips being sophisticated. When was the last bust of a "Gotti Faction" member? Pretty sure John Gambino and Lorenzo Mannino were hit just as hard as others during that era.

My argument would be that the WS conducts themselves a little different than the Gambino's. I would also argue that Dom C (again maybe he is out of the picture) is even more shadowy/ low key than Barney. The Gotti name still has a ton of attention and heat on it, and I would see it as a step backwards, especially if Gene is anything like John. Apologies if I wasn't clear, I am not try to paint with a large brush. Just comparing Lorenzo and Dom C to how things might change if the Gotti regime was back in charge. All of this is speculation. Do you think John or Pete Gotti ran the family better than today?

[Camo]

I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.

Didn't the last bust involving these "sophistacted" Sicilians have a Gambino Captain pictured buying gas to burn down a restaraunt? I don't know why people assume they are sophisticated, if they are from areas with vast corruption like Italy then they aren't faced with the same LE pressure as America. That's why they suffer less consequences and flip less they aren't somehow inherently better at crime than others, the State dictates the level criminals can reach as we've seen with every top tier criminal ever: Pablo Escobar, El Chapo, Riina.

This story is ridiculous but so is the idea of certain criminals being "sophisticated" because they were born in Sicily. They are all violent idiots they are just more protected in certain areas.

Did Joe Lanni do that on orders from the Sicilian faction? I thought that was a reaction to being asked to leave the restaurant. I have heard he was coked up and/or drunk. Even if he got the order from Dom or Lorenzo I doubt they wanted it carried out that way. Dom C maybe semi retired, but the guy has been labeled as the official boss for almost 15 years and we hardly even have a picture of him. I don't mean that all Sicilian born guys are more sophisticated but for some of the higher up Sicilians they seem to be more shadowy and low key than say the gotti faction. It was not meant as a general statement.

Hasn't Barney lasted around as long with a similar lack of information? Should we call him part of the sophisticated Sicilian faction?

Most of the "American" Gambino members have been very quiet during the same time. Which suggests a lack of acticity, a general change in operation or i guess something about the zips being sophisticated. When was the last bust of a "Gotti Faction" member? Pretty sure John Gambino and Lorenzo Mannino were hit just as hard as others during that era.

My argument would be that the WS conducts themselves a little different than the Gambino's. I would also argue that Dom C (again maybe he is out of the picture) is even more shadowy/ low key than Barney. The Gotti name still has a ton of attention and heat on it, and I would see it as a step backwards, especially if Gene is anything like John. Apologies if I wasn't clear, I am not try to paint with a large brush. Just comparing Lorenzo and Dom C to how things might change if the Gotti regime was back in charge. All of this is speculation. Do you think John or Pete Gotti ran the family better than today?

If they became Boss in 2011 on quieter terms then maybe. I think all Mafiosi in NY have seriously changed since the 90s because they know their bullshit won't fly. I don't think you can compare Gotti in the mid 80s to Cefalu in the 2010s. Again John Gambino and Lorenzo Mannino went away for a long time in that era too, Gambino's heroin dealing would not work today either.

I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

You have to agree the Crea conviction was absolute bullshit. Zero association to a murder yet convicted via association. Zero evidence. ZERO.

What happened to Crea could as easily have happened to Barney or Dom.

[Aces]

What happened to Crea could happen to anyone, not just a gangster. That is similar to what NYC tried to do to Trump but much worse.

[jmack]

I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

You have to agree the Crea conviction was absolute bullshit. Zero association to a murder yet convicted via association. Zero evidence. ZERO.

What happened to Crea could as easily have happened to Barney or Dom.

Yeah, I’m no mob apologist, but Crea and Allie Boy Persico got railroaded. No evidence against Crea other than his position in the mob. With Persico, he was convicted on a theory of the crime that was later proven false. The whole premise of his case was that the body was dumped in the ocean. They then found him nowhere near the ocean. That said I think Allie is guilty as sin and Crea is *probably* guilty.

[Pmac2]

I think crea knew after the fact. there was no need for Madonna to tell him or plot with him. crea got railroad. I think I asked pennisi in his comments if he thinks crea was guilty of the murder and he said something like. ha good try fan boy. I was just asking a simple question. cause I don't think he's guilty but oh well

[JakeTheSnake630]

I think crea knew after the fact. there was no need for Madonna to tell him or plot with him. crea got railroad. I think I asked pennisi in his comments if he thinks crea was guilty of the murder and he said something like. ha good try fan boy. I was just asking a simple question. cause I don't think he's guilty but oh well

Pennisi is so sensitive

[SonnyBlackstein]

I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

You have to agree the Crea conviction was absolute bullshit. Zero association to a murder yet convicted via association. Zero evidence. ZERO.

What happened to Crea could as easily have happened to Barney or Dom.

Yeah, I’m no mob apologist, but Crea and Allie Boy Persico got railroaded. No evidence against Crea other than his position in the mob. With Persico, he was convicted on a theory of the crime that was later proven false. The whole premise of his case was that the body was dumped in the ocean. They then found him nowhere near the ocean. That said I think Allie is guilty as sin and Crea is *probably* guilty.

What has to happen is convictions can ONLY happen after a preponderance of evidence. What we think or feel is irrelevant.

How Crea (and Allie) weren't absolved due lack of evidence and hence reasonable doubt, is beyond me.

If ZERO evidence tying someone to a crime isn't reasonable doubt I don't know what is.

@pmac: Pennisi is a bitch in that regard, he's blocked me asking anything for some bullshit perceived slight. I've met maybe 3 women in my life who are more sensitive. But he is our greatest source of info for the last half decade.
I've always wondered how someone who can take a punch (look at his nose) can be so fucking emotional. I've taken a few, but pride myself more on character than a fight. I've never been to prison so maybe that's it. But his sensitivity is fucking ridiculous. The last question he answered from me I stated about how the evidence was that Cali was not the boss and cited several sources. He called me a fan boy and has binned me since.
Okay pal. Can throw a punch but can't take a disagreement. Sad.

[Camo]

I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

You have to agree the Crea conviction was absolute bullshit. Zero association to a murder yet convicted via association. Zero evidence. ZERO.

What happened to Crea could as easily have happened to Barney or Dom.

Even if that is true didn't his son admit he and his father were planning on killing a Bonnano Associate over some social club bullshit? He was moving like it was 1975 and getting into petty beefs over perceived slights with his solution being murder, i don't see much difference between Crea and Michael Mancuso other than Crea had a forum reputation of being some mob genius for some reason so people are quicker to defend him. Hell Mancuso may die on the oustide unlike Crea and when it's all said and done may serve more time overall.

I also seem to remember Steven Crea (alonside the various other forum favourites) was portrayed as a great father who had his kids away from this bullshit and were set up in legal ventures, now he's serving 13 years.

[AntComello]

I think crea knew after the fact. there was no need for Madonna to tell him or plot with him. crea got railroad. I think I asked pennisi in his comments if he thinks crea was guilty of the murder and he said something like. ha good try fan boy. I was just asking a simple question. cause I don't think he's guilty but oh well

Pennisi is so sensitive

Lmaoo abd people wonder why Pennisi gets all this hate. He’s a genuine asshole cry baby. Yes he has good info and yes he may also have a vagina in between his legs