Beliefs with no evidence

[Brovelli]

The mob is currently more active in South Florida than people think.

Who's more powerful/wealthy in South Florida? The mob community or witness protection community

[Don_Peppino]

There is a social club in South Philly called Palizzi Social club, there is a video on YT about it, that originally opened in 1918 for italians from a certain town (Vasto in/near Abbruzzo). After seeing this, I thought it could possibly be one of the early "different" Families that Harry Riccobene talked about.

[Ivan]

Here's another one, this is totally unsubstantiated but I suspect that Youngstown, Ohio may have had its own home-grown independent mafia family a century or so ago.

[Hired_Goonz]

I believe that relationships/contact between LCN and U.S intelligence services between the end of WW2 and the 1970's or so were a lot tighter than many know. There is a shadowy network there that intersects crime, business, the military industrial complex, and foreign policy. They could all "scratch each other's backs" essentially.

Yea this is what I came in here to say. We have caught glimpses of this relationship via the HSCA in the 70s but I feel - without hard evidence of course, in the spirit of this thread - that what has been made public is just the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps Giancana and Roselli could have enlightened us a little more on these connections but they happened to meet untimely ends at a convenient time.

To be a little more specific I feel there's a good chance that US intelligence played a role setting up the post-WW2 mafia heroin network, possibly with the help of Luciano. It would fit into the pattern set in the following decades of US intelligence facilitating drug traffick to fund right-wing entities that work to further US corporate interests in other countries; we saw this play out in Southeast Asia, Latin America and Afghanistan. Keeping Western Europe generally and Italy specifically from going socialist/communist in the post-war era was a major plank of US foreign policy - witness the heavy interference in the 1948 Italian election and the fascist stay-behind networks in Europe (codenamed GLADIO in Italy).

Also I have to wonder if the CIA used any kind of inroads with LCN to influence domestic labour relations. If you strip away all the "freedom and democracy" bullshit, it becomes clear that the CIA's primary role is to ensure that US corporations can maximize profitability. Labour of course is a major line item for corporations. LCN had massive power and influence among labour unions and we know that the CIA had some connection to the mob - it makes me suspect that at some point they at least tried to use this connection to somehow influence the struggle between labour and capital.

[jmack]

There is a social club in South Philly called Palizzi Social club, there is a video on YT about it, that originally opened in 1918 for italians from a certain town (Vasto in/near Abbruzzo). After seeing this, I thought it could possibly be one of the early "different" Families that Harry Riccobene talked about.

I’m a member at Palizzi. I eat there every couple of months. I’m also a member at Messina social club, but the food isn’t as good there.

[sdeitche]

The mob is currently more active in South Florida than people think.

Follow that up?

I thought we didnt need any evidence!

Just based on things I've heard from some ex-law enforcement sources and a couple others who tell me there is still decent activity in Palm Beach and Broward counties especially. Also, I've been to some places recently, in Pompano Beach and Ft Lauderdale, where some shady characters are hanging about. Is it feasible? Well, the FDLE, which used to be the dominant law org investigating organized crime, no longer has active OC investigators, Broward COunty's Sheriff, which used to have a huge traditional OC squad is now heavily focused on drug syndicates and gangs. And the FBI in South FLorida has been heavily focused on human trafficking of late.

No evidence, save for anecdotes, but since law enforcement is not really focused on it, feasible.

[sdeitche]

The mob is currently more active in South Florida than people think.

Who's more powerful/wealthy in South Florida? The mob community or witness protection community

Neither. Its the MobTube stars!

[Coloboy]

I believe that relationships/contact between LCN and U.S intelligence services between the end of WW2 and the 1970's or so were a lot tighter than many know. There is a shadowy network there that intersects crime, business, the military industrial complex, and foreign policy. They could all "scratch each other's backs" essentially.

Yea this is what I came in here to say. We have caught glimpses of this relationship via the HSCA in the 70s but I feel - without hard evidence of course, in the spirit of this thread - that what has been made public is just the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps Giancana and Roselli could have enlightened us a little more on these connections but they happened to meet untimely ends at a convenient time.

To be a little more specific I feel there's a good chance that US intelligence played a role setting up the post-WW2 mafia heroin network, possibly with the help of Luciano. It would fit into the pattern set in the following decades of US intelligence facilitating drug traffick to fund right-wing entities that work to further US corporate interests in other countries; we saw this play out in Southeast Asia, Latin America and Afghanistan. Keeping Western Europe generally and Italy specifically from going socialist/communist in the post-war era was a major plank of US foreign policy - witness the heavy interference in the 1948 Italian election and the fascist stay-behind networks in Europe (codenamed GLADIO in Italy).

Also I have to wonder if the CIA used any kind of inroads with LCN to influence domestic labour relations. If you strip away all the "freedom and democracy" bullshit, it becomes clear that the CIA's primary role is to ensure that US corporations can maximize profitability. Labour of course is a major line item for corporations. LCN had massive power and influence among labour unions and we know that the CIA had some connection to the mob - it makes me suspect that at some point they at least tried to use this connection to somehow influence the struggle between labour and capital.

It's a rabbit hole for sure, but one with very little official documentation to review, for obvious reasons. I think you nailed it with the CIA's purpose being to maximize U.S corporate business interest. Their track record of "fighting communism" is chock full of horrible deeds and interference in sovereign nations. We know that they used drug profits in multiple instances to fund operations, particuarly in Latin America. Considering the power and influence LCN had at it's peak, whether it was labor unions, the docks and ports on the east coast, casinos in cuba, I find it likely that the CIA would work in tandem with them to further their agenda.

[Don_Peppino]

There is a social club in South Philly called Palizzi Social club, there is a video on YT about it, that originally opened in 1918 for italians from a certain town (Vasto in/near Abbruzzo). After seeing this, I thought it could possibly be one of the early "different" Families that Harry Riccobene talked about.

I’m a member at Palizzi. I eat there every couple of months. I’m also a member at Messina social club, but the food isn’t as good there.

I've thought about getting a membership, how is it?
Also in the YT video showed a list of names of the original members, that would probably be where my theory is proven or not lol

[JoePuzzles234]

I think Peter Milano's initial 1983-1984 recruitment drive was a lot wider than what is currently known, though I don't think any guys were made that are not presently identified - just that a lot more were considered for membership

Anthony Fiato briefly touches on this, mentioning that these associates were from all across California including San Diego and San Jose. Dominick Raffone is the only specific name he drops and he's someone that does not appear on any subsequent membership lists but there several additional candidates one can speculate about

[jmack]

There is a social club in South Philly called Palizzi Social club, there is a video on YT about it, that originally opened in 1918 for italians from a certain town (Vasto in/near Abbruzzo). After seeing this, I thought it could possibly be one of the early "different" Families that Harry Riccobene talked about.

I’m a member at Palizzi. I eat there every couple of months. I’m also a member at Messina social club, but the food isn’t as good there.

I've thought about getting a membership, how is it?
Also in the YT video showed a list of names of the original members, that would probably be where my theory is proven or not lol

It’s really good food. The owner is Joe Baldino (not the suspected member from Philly). He also owns Zeppoli in Collingswood, which is around the corner from kitchen Consigliere. They have decent food there as well. If you’re into Italian food in Philly go to fiorellas. By far the best.

[Brovelli]

The mob is currently more active in South Florida than people think.

Follow that up?

I thought we didnt need any evidence!

Just based on things I've heard from some ex-law enforcement sources and a couple others who tell me there is still decent activity in Palm Beach and Broward counties especially. Also, I've been to some places recently, in Pompano Beach and Ft Lauderdale, where some shady characters are hanging about. Is it feasible? Well, the FDLE, which used to be the dominant law org investigating organized crime, no longer has active OC investigators, Broward COunty's Sheriff, which used to have a huge traditional OC squad is now heavily focused on drug syndicates and gangs. And the FBI in South FLorida has been heavily focused on human trafficking of late.

No evidence, save for anecdotes, but since law enforcement is not really focused on it, feasible.

Would your suspicions be New York families operating, Tampa, a bit of Philly or all of the above and any others?

[Medicated]

I refuse to believe Bobby Manna will ever die.

What are you talking about? That guy dies all the time!

[SonnyBlackstein]

The mob is currently more active in South Florida than people think.

Follow that up?

I thought we didnt need any evidence!

Just based on things I've heard from some ex-law enforcement sources and a couple others who tell me there is still decent activity in Palm Beach and Broward counties especially. Also, I've been to some places recently, in Pompano Beach and Ft Lauderdale, where some shady characters are hanging about. Is it feasible? Well, the FDLE, which used to be the dominant law org investigating organized crime, no longer has active OC investigators, Broward COunty's Sheriff, which used to have a huge traditional OC squad is now heavily focused on drug syndicates and gangs. And the FBI in South FLorida has been heavily focused on human trafficking of late.

No evidence, save for anecdotes, but since law enforcement is not really focused on it, feasible.

Excellent post. Par for course sir.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I have deep down suspicions that Cefalu isn't the official and hasn't been for 10plus years (don't start with your Pete Gotti crap)

Brain just refuses to accept that a BOSS of one of the five could be unindicted for what, 15/20 years and free on the streets having final say.

I think John Gambino WAS the boss. Cali and now Mannino.

Now hit me with you best Barney is da boss and unindicted retorts...