The FBI described the Outfit leadership as "devastated" and in "disarray" following the indictments and convictions of the 90s. It wouldn't be out of the question for a younger, ambitious guy like Sarno to gain influence, especially if he had the backing of someone influential (like, say, Monteleone).Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:15 amGiven how little we really know about how the Outfit makes guys, especially in the modern era, I would say....why not?cavita wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 9:30 amIs there any way he could have been made in prison?
I find it really interesting that Voldpendesto insituated that Sarno was in talks to be boss as early as 2003. He clearly made A LOT of moves on the street between 1999 and 2003. You also read about how we was invested in a ton of businesses with Vena during that time, so he was a busy guy for sure.
General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Agreed, although I feel like the FBI always describes the mob that way. I do have to think that there was a contingent of older guys at that time (Monteleone? Difronzo? Andriacchi?), who were probably eager to have someone younger and hungrier take the reigns. Sarno was in his early to mid 40's at the time in question so certainly fit that bill.Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:22 amThe FBI described the Outfit leadership as "devastated" and in "disarray" following the indictments and convictions of the 90s. It wouldn't be out of the question for a younger, ambitious guy like Sarno to gain influence, especially if he had the backing of someone influential (like, say, Monteleone).Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:15 amGiven how little we really know about how the Outfit makes guys, especially in the modern era, I would say....why not?cavita wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 9:30 amIs there any way he could have been made in prison?
I find it really interesting that Voldpendesto insituated that Sarno was in talks to be boss as early as 2003. He clearly made A LOT of moves on the street between 1999 and 2003. You also read about how we was invested in a ton of businesses with Vena during that time, so he was a busy guy for sure.
Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
True, but I don't think it was an exaggeration in this instance. In just 1990-1994 you had:Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:42 pmAgreed, although I feel like the FBI always describes the mob that way. I do have to think that there was a contingent of older guys at that time (Monteleone? Difronzo? Andriacchi?), who were probably eager to have someone younger and hungrier take the reigns. Sarno was in his early to mid 40's at the time in question so certainly fit that bill.Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:22 amThe FBI described the Outfit leadership as "devastated" and in "disarray" following the indictments and convictions of the 90s. It wouldn't be out of the question for a younger, ambitious guy like Sarno to gain influence, especially if he had the backing of someone influential (like, say, Monteleone).Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:15 amGiven how little we really know about how the Outfit makes guys, especially in the modern era, I would say....why not?cavita wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 9:30 amIs there any way he could have been made in prison?
I find it really interesting that Voldpendesto insituated that Sarno was in talks to be boss as early as 2003. He clearly made A LOT of moves on the street between 1999 and 2003. You also read about how we was invested in a ton of businesses with Vena during that time, so he was a busy guy for sure.
Accardo, Solano, and Jimmy LaPietra all dying
Carlisi, DiFronzo, Marcello, Infelise, Zizzo, D'Amico, and Toots Palermo all going to prison
That is an entire administration and essentially all of your captains turning over. I suppose DiFronzo would have had to make at least two guys at some point (Magnafichi and "Sponge" Scalise -- made according to Fosco), but I think it's very conceivable that nobody was made for several years until the leadership stabilized.
Don't think I've mentioned it here, but in 1993 an informant told the FBI that Chicago had "recently made" at least one new person (DiForti). Obviously, this informant was off by about 5 years, but maybe correct in one or more members being "recently made," just not DiForti.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Where can I read about the businesses Sarno invested in along with Vena? Great information by the way.Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:15 amGiven how little we really know about how the Outfit makes guys, especially in the modern era, I say....why not? Wasn't he locked up for a while in the same prison as Delaurentis and Inendino? If so, they could have been plotting all kinds of stuff. It's one of the reasons I always felt like the ascension of Sarno invovled Solly D and Jimmy I more than most thought. They were tight, and all of their positions in the outfit rose substantially between 2005-2010. Just food for thought.cavita wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 9:30 amIs there any way he could have been made in prison?
I find it really interesting that Voldpendesto insituated that Sarno was in talks to be boss as early as 2003. He clearly made A LOT of moves on the street between 1999 and 2003. You also read about how we was invested in a ton of businesses with Vena during that time, so he was a busy guy for sure.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Couldn't Vena hypothetically have been made in 1993? He was also out on the street and his name rarely comes up as a candidate in these ceremonies. If there were four living Chicago guys who were the 'last to be made' under the old Carlisi/Ferriola regime my guess is that it would be Sarno, Vena, Spina and Matassa right?Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 1:07 pmTrue, but I don't think it was an exaggeration in this instance. In just 1990-1994 you had:Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:42 pmAgreed, although I feel like the FBI always describes the mob that way. I do have to think that there was a contingent of older guys at that time (Monteleone? Difronzo? Andriacchi?), who were probably eager to have someone younger and hungrier take the reigns. Sarno was in his early to mid 40's at the time in question so certainly fit that bill.Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:22 amThe FBI described the Outfit leadership as "devastated" and in "disarray" following the indictments and convictions of the 90s. It wouldn't be out of the question for a younger, ambitious guy like Sarno to gain influence, especially if he had the backing of someone influential (like, say, Monteleone).Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:15 amGiven how little we really know about how the Outfit makes guys, especially in the modern era, I would say....why not?cavita wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 9:30 amIs there any way he could have been made in prison?
I find it really interesting that Voldpendesto insituated that Sarno was in talks to be boss as early as 2003. He clearly made A LOT of moves on the street between 1999 and 2003. You also read about how we was invested in a ton of businesses with Vena during that time, so he was a busy guy for sure.
Accardo, Solano, and Jimmy LaPietra all dying
Carlisi, DiFronzo, Marcello, Infelise, Zizzo, D'Amico, and Toots Palermo all going to prison
That is an entire administration and essentially all of your captains turning over. I suppose DiFronzo would have had to make at least two guys at some point (Magnafichi and "Sponge" Scalise -- made according to Fosco), but I think it's very conceivable that nobody was made for several years until the leadership stabilized.
Don't think I've mentioned it here, but in 1993 an informant told the FBI that Chicago had "recently made" at least one new person (DiForti). Obviously, this informant was off by about 5 years, but maybe correct in one or more members being "recently made," just not DiForti.
Is the conventional wisdom that some of the guys like Louis Rainone, LoBue and others allegedly involved in running things today were made under the Sarno regime?
Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
This is an interesting question i have never considered. We know in NY getting made in the can is absolutely a no no, i have not seen anything about the Outfit's stance on it, though one of the Archaeologists may have seen something on it.Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:15 amGiven how little we really know about how the Outfit makes guys, especially in the modern era, I say....why not? Wasn't he locked up for a while in the same prison as Delaurentis and Inendino? If so, they could have been plotting all kinds of stuff. It's one of the reasons I always felt like the ascension of Sarno invovled Solly D and Jimmy I more than most thought. They were tight, and all of their positions in the outfit rose substantially between 2005-2010. Just food for thought.cavita wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 9:30 amIs there any way he could have been made in prison?
I find it really interesting that Voldpendesto insituated that Sarno was in talks to be boss as early as 2003. He clearly made A LOT of moves on the street between 1999 and 2003. You also read about how we was invested in a ton of businesses with Vena during that time, so he was a busy guy for sure.
Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Matassa was made with Nick C in 1983.I'd figure Sarno and Vena to be made fairly close to each other, but maybe Vena a little sooner if he had assumed a leadership role in the crew.NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 9:45 amCouldn't Vena hypothetically have been made in 1993? He was also out on the street and his name rarely comes up as a candidate in these ceremonies. If there were four living Chicago guys who were the 'last to be made' under the old Carlisi/Ferriola regime my guess is that it would be Sarno, Vena, Spina and Matassa right?Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 1:07 pmTrue, but I don't think it was an exaggeration in this instance. In just 1990-1994 you had:Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:42 pmAgreed, although I feel like the FBI always describes the mob that way. I do have to think that there was a contingent of older guys at that time (Monteleone? Difronzo? Andriacchi?), who were probably eager to have someone younger and hungrier take the reigns. Sarno was in his early to mid 40's at the time in question so certainly fit that bill.Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:22 amThe FBI described the Outfit leadership as "devastated" and in "disarray" following the indictments and convictions of the 90s. It wouldn't be out of the question for a younger, ambitious guy like Sarno to gain influence, especially if he had the backing of someone influential (like, say, Monteleone).Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:15 amGiven how little we really know about how the Outfit makes guys, especially in the modern era, I would say....why not?cavita wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 9:30 amIs there any way he could have been made in prison?
I find it really interesting that Voldpendesto insituated that Sarno was in talks to be boss as early as 2003. He clearly made A LOT of moves on the street between 1999 and 2003. You also read about how we was invested in a ton of businesses with Vena during that time, so he was a busy guy for sure.
Accardo, Solano, and Jimmy LaPietra all dying
Carlisi, DiFronzo, Marcello, Infelise, Zizzo, D'Amico, and Toots Palermo all going to prison
That is an entire administration and essentially all of your captains turning over. I suppose DiFronzo would have had to make at least two guys at some point (Magnafichi and "Sponge" Scalise -- made according to Fosco), but I think it's very conceivable that nobody was made for several years until the leadership stabilized.
Don't think I've mentioned it here, but in 1993 an informant told the FBI that Chicago had "recently made" at least one new person (DiForti). Obviously, this informant was off by about 5 years, but maybe correct in one or more members being "recently made," just not DiForti.
Is the conventional wisdom that some of the guys like Louis Rainone, LoBue and others allegedly involved in running things today were made under the Sarno regime?
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
The rumor is that Rainone and the other 12th Street Player types in Cicero were made by Sarno, while the LoBues were made more recently by Solly D and are very close to him.NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 9:45 am Is the conventional wisdom that some of the guys like Louis Rainone, LoBue and others allegedly involved in running things today were made under the Sarno regime?
This is all *alleged* and unproven mind you.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Hahaha wow holy shit -- it would be extremely amusing if the rumors are true and this guy is actually made.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/996544442229457
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Looking at the Michael Frontier affidavits it’s obvious that the Outfit is very active, very structured and doing the same exact things now that they’ve been doing for the last 100 years at least according to the FBI. Don’t know how anyone can argue with the FBI when they’re the main govt body assigned to investigate them
Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Yep. And that case is even centered around the crew that for the last 15 years everyone on the internet has said was “de-activated” and “extinct”. (Mostly because of Joe Foscos info).7digits wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 12:48 am Looking at the Michael Frontier affidavits it’s obvious that the Outfit is very active, very structured and doing the same exact things now that they’ve been doing for the last 100 years at least according to the FBI. Don’t know how anyone can argue with the FBI when they’re the main govt body assigned to investigate them
One of the most interesting things about that case is the number of informants the FBI has in connection to the Elmwood Park crew. There are multiple, but this stands out….
CI-6, who has reliably claimed to be personally acquainted with numerous top members of the Chicago Outfit and to have participated in major criminal activities, has been providing reliable, trustworthy information to the FBI concerning the Chicago Outfit for more than 30 years, which has led to the identification and conviction of Chicago Outfit members; he/she has felony convictions and has been paid approximately $100,261 for information he/she provided
It’s notable that even with all of those informants, even focused on just one crew, all of the outfit cases over the last decade have not been able to indict any senior leaders or made members. (Maybe Panozzo but that’s up for debate). Whatever safeguards those guys use to insulate themselves are certainly working to some degree.
Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
His sunglasses are too big for his small face. How can he breathe through his nose? Its like closing his nostrilsIvan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 1:23 pm Hahaha wow holy shit -- it would be extremely amusing if the rumors are true and this guy is actually made.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Yeah pretty much every single thing he says and does is ridiculous.
Since Sarno they have done an excellent job for about a decade of flying under the radar and convincing the world that they're basically extinct except for some remnants here and there, but given the rumors that have proliferated for a couple years now about all the new members etc. I get the feeling that is starting to crack.Coloboy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 7:26 am It’s notable that even with all of those informants, even focused on just one crew, all of the outfit cases over the last decade have not been able to indict any senior leaders or made members. (Maybe Panozzo but that’s up for debate). Whatever safeguards those guys use to insulate themselves are certainly working to some degree.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
I’ll save everyone some time and speculation. He’s not made.Ivan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:35 amYeah pretty much every single thing he says and does is ridiculous.
Since Sarno they have done an excellent job for about a decade of flying under the radar and convincing the world that they're basically extinct except for some remnants here and there, but given the rumors that have proliferated for a couple years now about all the new members etc. I get the feeling that is starting to crack.Coloboy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 7:26 am It’s notable that even with all of those informants, even focused on just one crew, all of the outfit cases over the last decade have not been able to indict any senior leaders or made members. (Maybe Panozzo but that’s up for debate). Whatever safeguards those guys use to insulate themselves are certainly working to some degree.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground
Is this the son of Cicero associate/rumored soldier Paul Carparelli, the kid with Tourette's?
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