General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Ivan]

That he was indeed shelved I think is strongly supported by the Calabrese prison tapes.

Are those available for listening anywhere online? I've only heard brief clips from that one cable tv show episode about him and his son. Frank Sr. sounds scary-normal in those clips, the serial killer next door or something.

[Antiliar]

Fosco cleared the Pagano thing up on the boards a while back. It was false they were related and the other Paganos that are in-laws don't seem like winners either. Fosco did say that there Matassa and Pagano of NYC know each other (and I believe they were named in several broader national LUINA investigations together and would have likely both known people like Coia). I've seen people saying they did own a restaurant together as well.

I personally think John Matassa's latest scam was quite sad and shows he was quite desperate for cash, but you guys know better. I don't think he was nearly on the level of Daniel Pagano.

https://www.americannewspost.com/susan- ... ara-candy/

I tend to agree on the desperate nature of his last arrest/scam. It did reek of someone not doing great financially. However, you never know. Meaning a lot of these guys are just career criminals and are going to take advantage whenever and wherever they can. I've known multimillionaires to be some of the cheapest SOB's around. Hard to tell.

These guys get off on scamming people for money, no matter how small. Desperate? Maybe but look at Fatass Pritzker. A billionaire that risked a federal investigation by taking toilets out of his house just to save $30,000 when you have billions. The information I got about Pudgy is reliable and I was surprised myself. But also remember something about Pudgy. He is a made guy and for him not to use that to his advantage would be stupid in my opinion.

Remember how everyone laughed on ANP and elsewhere when it came out that Sarno was in a position of authority in the Outfit? Turns out he was feared and respected. He did time for the Outfit (even before the 2010 conviction) and had a reputation for violence. Now, Matassa seemingly wasn't a violent guy and only did a year in lockup, but I think the point still stands that made guys are treated differently and carry a lot of weight as long as the organization lets them.

Also, we know now from a recorded conversation with Sam Volpendesto in the early 2000's, that Sarno was actually being considered for boss at THAT time. Volpendesto was insinuating that Sarno got screwed by having Marcello be selected as boss.

You dont get to be the top of the heap in that MP crew without being dangerous. Just think of the folks that we know were or are still involved in that Melrose Park/Cicero faction to this day.

Yep; you also have to wonder how much influence DiFronzo still had at that point. You'd think he would have helped decide the boss matter if there was any type of dispute between the Marcello and Cicero camps over who should get it. I'd imagine Marcello got it via seniority and that he was the right-hand man of a previous boss (Carlisi).

You have as much insight into that time as anyone, but from every source available, my opinion is that he still held quite a bit of sway. SOMEONE was making those decisions, particularly in all the turmoil caused by family secrets. There is enough evidence to support him very much being involved until the early 2010's in some capacity. I've laid these out before, but we have him on camera meeting with other EP guys in the "Lunch with No Nose" feature on the news, we know paulie carparelli was afraid to cross him in the Melrose Park car dealer debacle, the FBI states that Sarno was forced to either kick up or share in profits with him, and also the FBI also reports him meeting with members of the grand ave crew in 2005 or 2006 at a restaurant. Sure seems like he had some type of position.

Wasn’t Lombardo also seen meeting with him right before he went on the lamb for family secrets? Or am I misremembering?

I've never heard that, although it would be interesting. Maybe someone else has some info.

I don't recall them meeting, but I can't say they didn't. Lombardo was seemingly on the shelf before he was indicted, but that didn't stop guys like Andriacchi from seeing him so I guess Matassa could have as well.

Apologizes should have been more clear. Wasn’t DiFronzo seen meeting him prior to Family Secrets? I thought I read that in either the “Family Secrets” book by Jeff Cohn. I could be wrong though.

That's correct; according to an FBI informant, Lombardo met with Rosemont mayor Donald Stephens at an Elmwood Park Restaurant in 1999. Also allegedly present were John and Peter DiFronzo, Andriacchi, Willie Messino, Rudy Fratto, and Rick Rizzolo. The supposed topic was contracts for a proposed Rosemont casino. Honestly, to me it sounds kind of suspect, especially for a sitting mayor to meet with a guy as notorious as Lombardo (who I think was still on paper at the time). Also, just the amount of guys present at the meeting stretches credulity.

IIRC, the informant who said this was later discredited.

[Patrickgold]

I believe Lombardo could have been shelved for several reasons. First, he was responsible for Spilotro in Vegas. When that crashed I believe the the top bosses blamed him. Another reason I believe he was shelved bc he was too flamboyant. He had not problem bringing attention to himself and going on camera. I remember when he is being chased through Marshall Fields and he was joking around with the camera man. Someone like Aiuppa or Accardo would never do something like that. Lastly, when he got out of jail, he had a lot of heat on him. A lot of people were claiming he was the heir to the thrown. The Feds and everyone else was watching him very closely. Nobody wanted to be close to him bc of the heat. He was also on probation which barred him from associating with felons which the Feds were able to extent by 2 years.

[Coloboy]

Like others have said, I'm sure it was an accumulation of things that got him shelved. And honestly we don't even know if he truly was shelved. Maybe they just cut him off from certain revenue streams. Who knows.

PolackTony mentioned this, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some type of power play during that period in the mid 90's when Carlisi was in prison and then Difronzo was in and out of prison.

[Snakes]

Like others have said, I'm sure it was an accumulation of things that got him shelved. And honestly we don't even know if he truly was shelved. Maybe they just cut him off from certain revenue streams. Who knows.

PolackTony mentioned this, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some type of power play during that period in the mid 90's when Carlisi was in prison and then Difronzo was in and out of prison.

In 1993, Lombardo told Pat Spilotro in that they "took his people away." I think that's another indication he may have been shelved.

[PolackTony]

Like others have said, I'm sure it was an accumulation of things that got him shelved. And honestly we don't even know if he truly was shelved. Maybe they just cut him off from certain revenue streams. Who knows.

PolackTony mentioned this, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some type of power play during that period in the mid 90's when Carlisi was in prison and then Difronzo was in and out of prison.

In 1993, Lombardo told Pat Spilotro in that they "took his people away." I think that's another indication he may have been shelved.

Could be. But could also just indicate that he was bumped down from captain to soldier when he was incarcerated in the 80s. Hard to say of course.

[Ivan]

I remember when he is being chased through Marshall Fields and he was joking around with the camera man.

That shit was hilarious though.

Unpopular opinion of mine: Paul Carparelli is actually funnier than Joey Lombardo.

[JoePuzzles234]

That shit was hilarious though.

Unpopular opinion of mine: Paul Carparelli is actually funnier than Joey Lombardo.

"I guess you gotta like people. My problem is I hate everybody.”

[PolackTony]

I remember when he is being chased through Marshall Fields and he was joking around with the camera man.

That shit was hilarious though.

Unpopular opinion of mine: Paul Carparelli is actually funnier than Joey Lombardo.

Lombardo was a lot scarier though. The “clown” thing was in part a shtick that increased his menace (jokes for me but not for thee). The grinning face of death.

[Ivan]

Lombardo was a lot scarier though. The “clown” thing was in part a shtick that increased his menace (jokes for me but not for thee). The grinning face of death.

This is a very good point. Mobster version of the Joker from Batman. Still Paulie wins for overall laffs generated.

"My problem is I hate everybody.”

Yeah that's one of the top ten greatest mobster quotes of all time. Everything about it is perfect.

I appreciate your creation of the YouTube video of the publically-available recordings complete with transcripts, by the way. Civilization owes you one for that.

Would it be possible to obtain the rest of the recordings somehow, I wonder? I don't know much about FOIA etc.

[funkster]

Fosco cleared the Pagano thing up on the boards a while back. It was false they were related and the other Paganos that are in-laws don't seem like winners either. Fosco did say that there Matassa and Pagano of NYC know each other (and I believe they were named in several broader national LUINA investigations together and would have likely both known people like Coia). I've seen people saying they did own a restaurant together as well.

I personally think John Matassa's latest scam was quite sad and shows he was quite desperate for cash, but you guys know better. I don't think he was nearly on the level of Daniel Pagano.

https://www.americannewspost.com/susan- ... ara-candy/

I tend to agree on the desperate nature of his last arrest/scam. It did reek of someone not doing great financially. However, you never know. Meaning a lot of these guys are just career criminals and are going to take advantage whenever and wherever they can. I've known multimillionaires to be some of the cheapest SOB's around. Hard to tell.

These guys get off on scamming people for money, no matter how small. Desperate? Maybe but look at Fatass Pritzker. A billionaire that risked a federal investigation by taking toilets out of his house just to save $30,000 when you have billions. The information I got about Pudgy is reliable and I was surprised myself. But also remember something about Pudgy. He is a made guy and for him not to use that to his advantage would be stupid in my opinion.

Remember how everyone laughed on ANP and elsewhere when it came out that Sarno was in a position of authority in the Outfit? Turns out he was feared and respected. He did time for the Outfit (even before the 2010 conviction) and had a reputation for violence. Now, Matassa seemingly wasn't a violent guy and only did a year in lockup, but I think the point still stands that made guys are treated differently and carry a lot of weight as long as the organization lets them.

Also, we know now from a recorded conversation with Sam Volpendesto in the early 2000's, that Sarno was actually being considered for boss at THAT time. Volpendesto was insinuating that Sarno got screwed by having Marcello be selected as boss.

You dont get to be the top of the heap in that MP crew without being dangerous. Just think of the folks that we know were or are still involved in that Melrose Park/Cicero faction to this day.

Yep; you also have to wonder how much influence DiFronzo still had at that point. You'd think he would have helped decide the boss matter if there was any type of dispute between the Marcello and Cicero camps over who should get it. I'd imagine Marcello got it via seniority and that he was the right-hand man of a previous boss (Carlisi).

You have as much insight into that time as anyone, but from every source available, my opinion is that he still held quite a bit of sway. SOMEONE was making those decisions, particularly in all the turmoil caused by family secrets. There is enough evidence to support him very much being involved until the early 2010's in some capacity. I've laid these out before, but we have him on camera meeting with other EP guys in the "Lunch with No Nose" feature on the news, we know paulie carparelli was afraid to cross him in the Melrose Park car dealer debacle, the FBI states that Sarno was forced to either kick up or share in profits with him, and also the FBI also reports him meeting with members of the grand ave crew in 2005 or 2006 at a restaurant. Sure seems like he had some type of position.

Wasn’t Lombardo also seen meeting with him right before he went on the lamb for family secrets? Or am I misremembering?

I've never heard that, although it would be interesting. Maybe someone else has some info.

I don't recall them meeting, but I can't say they didn't. Lombardo was seemingly on the shelf before he was indicted, but that didn't stop guys like Andriacchi from seeing him so I guess Matassa could have as well.

Apologizes should have been more clear. Wasn’t DiFronzo seen meeting him prior to Family Secrets? I thought I read that in either the “Family Secrets” book by Jeff Cohn. I could be wrong though.

That's correct; according to an FBI informant, Lombardo met with Rosemont mayor Donald Stephens at an Elmwood Park Restaurant in 1999. Also allegedly present were John and Peter DiFronzo, Andriacchi, Willie Messino, Rudy Fratto, and Rick Rizzolo. The supposed topic was contracts for a proposed Rosemont casino. Honestly, to me it sounds kind of suspect, especially for a sitting mayor to meet with a guy as notorious as Lombardo (who I think was still on paper at the time). Also, just the amount of guys present at the meeting stretches credulity.

I dont remember if we've ever discussed, but Stephens owned a motel with Mooney in the 60s possibly on Mannheim. Sr. was never shy about his connections, my mom was and is very plugged in with the Rosemont royalty, I remember her telling me when i was growing up that a partner of his was found killed "gangland style". Not sure if that was just lore or what.

Incidentally, my work involves some dealings with the city of Rosemont govt officials. A few years ago one of our liaisons to public officials had a meeting with some of the Rosemont guys, I remember he came back to me and said meeting with them felt like an episode of the Sopranos lol.

[Patrickgold]

Talking about hotels on Mannheim, I was driving on Mannheim the other day and noticed that the Lido Inn was tore down recently. That was an outfit place going back decades. I forget who owned it. Maybe Rocky Infelice??? I remember Cooley talking about meeting someone there once. I think Aleman but could be wrong.

[Snakes]

Talking about hotels on Mannheim, I was driving on Mannheim the other day and noticed that the Lido Inn was tore down recently. That was an outfit place going back decades. I forget who owned it. Maybe Rocky Infelice??? I remember Cooley talking about meeting someone there once. I think Aleman but could be wrong.

Rocky had a stake in it. I believe they tried to burn it down for an insurance scam in the 60s but it didn't work

[PolackTony]

Talking about hotels on Mannheim, I was driving on Mannheim the other day and noticed that the Lido Inn was tore down recently. That was an outfit place going back decades. I forget who owned it. Maybe Rocky Infelice??? I remember Cooley talking about meeting someone there once. I think Aleman but could be wrong.

Rocky had a stake in it. I believe they tried to burn it down for an insurance scam in the 60s but it didn't work

Yes, there was a fire in 1962 at the Lido that killed the on-paper owner, Jack Newman. The fire damaged the restaurant and lounge part of the motel. It was one of several suspicious fires at mob-connected establishments around the same time that investigators thought were insurance arsons (eg, the North Ave Steakhouse in MP and Peddicone’s in Lyons). It was believed that Pete DePietto, Rocky Infelise, and Cowboy Mirro were behind the torchings (Rocky was “working” as a host at Peddicone’s at the time it got torched also). Guys from the Buccieri crew were reportedly using the restaurant at the Lido for late night meetings until the Cook County Sheriff’s Department under Richard Ogilvie ordered that it begin closing early; the fire happened shortly thereafter. In 1965, outfit associate turned rat Gerry Covelli was the suspect in the murder of an insurance claims adjuster named Albert Ritter, whose insurance firm represented Newman’s widow for the Lido fire claim. Rather than a mob thing, however, LE believed that Covelli had previously had an affair with Ritter’s wife.

Can’t believe the Lido was still operating in recent years. From what I know that joint was a real shithole.

[Ivan]

Speaking of Cooley I just impulse-bought his book on the cheap at a used book store. Is it actually worth reading?