Must still today the little families ask NY the ok to made new members?

[johnny_scootch]

Who gave Ralph DeLeo permission you have to wonder. He was close to Allie boy who I don't think even runs the family besides he blood family

We don’t have to wonder we know exactly how it all went down from Pennisi. Sally Bread gave the ok for DeLeo to straighten out Guzzo.

Thanks. In the Colombo family specifically there are very few examples of making ceremonies happening without administration present.

One of those examples

3/11/87 Brooklyn

Ceremony conducted by Benny Aloi (Captain). Also attended by Vic Orena (Captain) Greg Scarpa Jr (Acting Captain) Joel Cacace (Soldier) Vincent Febbraro (Soldier) Teddy Persico Jr (Soldier)

Those inducted were Dennis DeLucia, Carmine Sessa and Robert Zambardi.

[B.]

I don’t know about today, in 2023, because John Pennisi said the Colombos made Vito Guzzo in prison and I don’t really know how that works with no administration members in there to make him.

You don't need administration members to make someone. Plenty of examples of Captains running induction ceremonies (Genovese do it all the time) and there are examples of lowly soldiers doing it also.

Ralph DeLeo made Vito Guzzo and he was just a soldier but he had permission to do it and that's all that matters.

I just got a headache trying to read this

HA! I read Furio's posts with my Grandfathers voice and accent in my head and it makes it easier!

What specific instances have been documented where a soldier presided over an induction? As I suppose that technically any member, if they are the highest-ranking member available in a given location, could be seen as a representative of their Family and the “fraternity” as a whole, I could see it being possible, but was just curious what examples exist.

Also, it works for me to read Furio’s comments as Furio Giunta himself lol.

DiLeonardo and Luisi both said the rule is that two captains are needed to preside over a ceremony. Like people have pointed out there have been exceptions and sometimes protocol isn't followed (like any mob rule) but if this was known in both NYC and Philly's Boston branch it indicates it was a wider rule.

[gohnjotti]

One of those examples

3/11/87 Brooklyn

Ceremony conducted by Benny Aloi (Captain). Also attended by Vic Orena (Captain) Greg Scarpa Jr (Acting Captain) Joel Cacace (Soldier) Vincent Febbraro (Soldier) Teddy Persico Jr (Soldier)

Those inducted were Dennis DeLucia, Carmine Sessa and Robert Zambardi.

Good point Scootch, I forgot about that, but I would still argue it’s a rare example and also due to other family factors at that time. The administration had just been convicted in the Concrete trial, acting boss on the street was Jimmy Angelina who was under indictment or scheduled to go to jail (can't remember which one), and Benny Aloi & Vic Orena were slated to take over on a ruling panel. So although they weren't "officially" running the family, they weren't just average captains.

For example, Tommy Gioeli was a "captain" until his official promotion to street boss around '03/'04 but was handling the family affairs from the late '90s onwards. Prior to his official promotion he presided over induction ceremonies.

Since the Colombos re-opened their books in 2000, I believe the administration has been present at every (known) ceremony, which sort of establishes that it is still a formality. For example, they flew DeLeo to New York to conduct a ceremony over men he'd never met before. That says to me it's still an important part of legitimizing a ceremony for the Colombo family.

[gohnjotti]

I don’t know about today, in 2023, because John Pennisi said the Colombos made Vito Guzzo in prison and I don’t really know how that works with no administration members in there to make him.

You don't need administration members to make someone. Plenty of examples of Captains running induction ceremonies (Genovese do it all the time) and there are examples of lowly soldiers doing it also.

Ralph DeLeo made Vito Guzzo and he was just a soldier but he had permission to do it and that's all that matters.

I just got a headache trying to read this

HA! I read Furio's posts with my Grandfathers voice and accent in my head and it makes it easier!

What specific instances have been documented where a soldier presided over an induction? As I suppose that technically any member, if they are the highest-ranking member available in a given location, could be seen as a representative of their Family and the “fraternity” as a whole, I could see it being possible, but was just curious what examples exist.

Also, it works for me to read Furio’s comments as Furio Giunta himself lol.

DiLeonardo and Luisi both said the rule is that two captains are needed to preside over a ceremony. Like people have pointed out there have been exceptions and sometimes protocol isn't followed (like any mob rule) but if this was known in both NYC and Philly's Boston branch it indicates it was a wider rule.

Thanks B., that clears things up. Any families that are particularly egregious with this rule-breaking? Werent the Bonannos making people in the back of diners?

[B.]

Even though the Bonannos stopped doing the traditional ceremony it seems like they generally had at least two captains present but I'd have to review the examples. I don't think it applies either if an admin member is presiding.

Taglialatela said his 1950s induction was presided over by Paul Vario who was at most an acting captain at the time, so that's an early example of the rule being ignored unless there were other ranking figures there he didn't know / remember. The official captain for sure wasn't there.

Calderone said in Sicily they would sometimes do an expedited ceremony or ignore rules based on circumstances and he cited jailhouse inductions as an example. The Vicari Family forgot how to properly do the ceremony because the elder member who always conducted it had died.