General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

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Coloboy
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Coloboy »

InCamelot wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:07 pm
Coloboy wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:54 am As we attempt to piece together the very cloudy leadership succession from the 90's-today, one thing crossed my mind.

It has always been assumed that Sarno took over day to day after Marcello.

Solly D was released in 2006, just after family secrets indictments. Prior to his incarceration in 1990, Solly D was clearly higher in the pecking order compared to Sarno. What is the possibility that after his release Solly D was given operational control of the outfit, and he simply ran everything through Sarno? They both go back to the Ferriola/Infelise crew, and were well acquainted. I could see a situation where Solly was the boss, with Sarno being his man on the street.

Given the fact that even post family secrets guys like Difronzo, Andriacchi, Tornabene, Delaurentis, and even Jimmy I were still around I always thought it questionable that Sarno was the real power behind the outfit throne.

Just some food for thought.
Yeah after reading the the 90s-2000s section of Villain's excellent Outfit write up, I had the same thought. It seems possible its been Solly + Jimmy even when "Mutt and Jeff" were on the street. Including the Hatch and Zizzo hits.
Exactly. With both of those senior guys on the street at that time, it just seems unlikely that Sarno would be the one with ultimate control.

Don’t forget that Difronzo, Andriacchi, and Al Tornabene we’re all still around at that time as well.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Snakes »

I'm of the opinion that Sarno became boss after Marcello went away, with Solly D either taking over as boss after he got out (relegating Sarno to Cicero capo) or immediately assuming the de-facto "consigliere" ("Accardo"-position) role. Sarno was probably senior to Inendino, but the latter may have taken over after Sarno went away in 2010. It sounds like either Inendino or Vena are running things now.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Snakes »

Also, would anyone be bothered if I broke this thread up into four separate threads? I'm thinking:

Capone era and prior (early days up until Capone's conviction)
Post-Capone era (Between Capone and Giancana; ~1931 to ~1957)
Giancana era (~1957 to ~1975)
"Modern" era (1975 to present)

This may break things up into more manageable pieces of information. Thoughts?
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Coloboy »

Snakes wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:10 pm I'm of the opinion that Sarno became boss after Marcello went away, with Solly D either taking over as boss after he got out (relegating Sarno to Cicero capo) or immediately assuming the de-facto "consigliere" ("Accardo"-position) role. Sarno was probably senior to Inendino, but the latter may have taken over after Sarno went away in 2010. It sounds like either Inendino or Vena are running things now.
Not sure about Solly D getting that Accardo role right after prison. Too many other senior guys still around at that time, including no nose, Andriacchi, Tornabene

But I do think it is very possible he was given day to day control of the outfit, and ran it through Mike Sarno and Sal Cautedella as early as 2006/2007
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Snakes »

Coloboy wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:09 pm
Snakes wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:10 pm I'm of the opinion that Sarno became boss after Marcello went away, with Solly D either taking over as boss after he got out (relegating Sarno to Cicero capo) or immediately assuming the de-facto "consigliere" ("Accardo"-position) role. Sarno was probably senior to Inendino, but the latter may have taken over after Sarno went away in 2010. It sounds like either Inendino or Vena are running things now.
Not sure about Solly D getting that Accardo role right after prison. Too many other senior guys still around at that time, including no nose, Andriacchi, Tornabene

But I do think it is very possible he was given day to day control of the outfit, and ran it through Mike Sarno and Sal Cautedella as early as 2006/2007
I don't think they were as involved, though. Accardo and Ricca both had that position, too, so it isn't something that is restricted to just one guy.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Antiliar »

Snakes wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:13 pm Also, would anyone be bothered if I broke this thread up into four separate threads? I'm thinking:

Capone era and prior (early days up until Capone's conviction)
Post-Capone era (Between Capone and Giancana; ~1931 to ~1957)
Giancana era (~1957 to ~1975)
"Modern" era (1975 to present)

This may break things up into more manageable pieces of information. Thoughts?
We have a lot of overlap of the different eras, so it would be difficult to keep things neat and tidy in a single Chicago era thread. Plus, it seems to me that the toothpaste is already out of the tube on this, and it would be impossible to put it back in. Just my opinion.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Coloboy »

@snakes- also meant to mention, I think the theory surrounding Zizzo is solid. Meaning if the Solly D/Sarno/Cautadella faction was given control of the outfit around 2006, this could have caused major rifts with the Melrose Park/Zizzo faction, who had previously been in control under Marcello. Thus, he disappears.

It seems the Hatch was a different beast though. This happened in 2001, right after Monteleone died and Marcello was supposedly the heir apparent. (even though he wasn't out of prison yet). Who knows what happened with him, but it does seem he pissed off a lot of people including elements of Chinatown, Elmwood Park, and the Cicero faction. Many reasons he could have been killed.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by chin_gigante »

Posted Nicholas Calabrese's testimony in the Family Secrets trial in the FBI section:

viewtopic.php?p=237859#p237859

I'm sure you guys can do better work with it than I could
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

chin_gigante wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:56 am Posted Nicholas Calabrese's testimony in the Family Secrets trial in the FBI section:

viewtopic.php?p=237859#p237859

I'm sure you guys can do better work with it than I could
Thanks again for posting, Chin.

***

Worth noting that Nicky C apparently thought of himself as a “member of the Outfit” from the point that he became a formal associate of a formal crew (initially with Angelo LaPietra when he was still a soldier in the Buccieri crew). This again underscores what I think was likely to have been a source of confusion over the years with Chicago intel, where the Feds were asking guys about “membership” in the outfit/“syndicate”, and these guys most likely understood that to mean being placed “with” an actual outfit crew as a worker/associate, rather than being made.

Image

Image


The first file also contains testimony from Richie Mara, who doesn’t identify himself as formally affiliated with the outfit. Rather, he was a burglar/armed robber who worked for years in loose, informal “crews” of other crooks pulling various jobs. Guys like that would be charged street tax and/or might be used for specific jobs by formal associates/made guys; Mara states that he didn’t have to pay street tax as he was giving a cut directly to Jimmy I (who was himself a formal outfit associate at this time, of course). He knew and worked with plenty of guys who were formal outfit associates and made guys, but he himself wasn’t organizationally affiliated. Important distinction, as from the outside-looking-in, we might easily assume that he was an associate of the Chinatown crew.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by B. »

Thanks for sharing, Chin. Here are some sections I noticed:
Q. And when Angelo was capo, did his brother, Jimmy, occupy
any position of authority in the crew?
A. He was an acting captain under Angelo.
Q. Was there any sort of term for that?
A. Angelo told me and my brother, Frank --
Q. I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
A. There was a time when we were sitting down with Angelo and
Jimmy LaPietra having a cup of coffee at a restaurant and
Angelo told my brother, "u frate," meaning my brother, "suto
capo," an acting captain under him.
^ The use of "sottocapo" within a crew was the same as acting capodecina.

^ Also maybe a dialect pronunciation like w/ "Consignu" [ph] and what Hegarty said about the admin ranks.
The following week, we knew where he lived and we
went there. He wasn't there. And some time later we found
out he ran back to Rockford.
Q. Did he resume criminal activities somewhere else?
A. In Rockford.
Q. Now, with respect to Frank and Joe from Rockford, after
you had your meeting, you and your brother had the meeting
with the two of them, at some point did they resume
becoming agents for your bookmaking business?
A. I don't believe, no. I think that was the end of it.

Q. And was there any sort of dispute over whether they
would continue working for or with your crew?
A. Yes, there was something set up with my brother, and
Angelo LaPietra, Jimmy Marcello and Sam Carlisi drove out
to Rockford one night to go sit down with the people out
there
, somebody out there--who it was I don't know. I
didn't go--and to straighten out this whole thing with
Gumba and Frank and Joe.
Q. Did your brother tell you why it was Sam Carlisi and
James Marcello were part of this sit-down?
A. That they knew the guy from out that way, that's why
they went out there.
Q. The guy --
A. The guy --
Q. The counterpart?

A. Yeah, out there.
^ Carlisi and Marcello knew Frank and Joe's superiors in Rockford, probably members/leaders there. What stands out is Chicago didn't just bully Rockford into giving up their associates but respected Rockford's claim to them after the sitdown.
And we were in like this den, there was a pool table
there, and I don't remember who said it, but there was some
money in the guy's pocket, somebody said, "give it to the guys
that are not made,"
which was me, Chiaramonti and Marcello.
^ Interesting after this murder the made members allowed the associates to keep some of the victim's money.
A. I opened the car door. I don't know that I'm shot at this
time. My mind - my adrenaline is going and he's running, and
the only thing I could think of was what happens -- if I don't
do this, if he gets away, I'm dead, because I remember Jasper
Campezi and John Catuzo that messed up and they wound up in
the trunk a couple of months later
. So what was going through
my mind is I have to catch him and I have to shoot him.
Q. Did you understand the rule to be if you don't complete
the murder, you may become the murdered?
A. Several times I heard the statement if this guy gets away,
meaning whatever we're doing, you'll take his place, which
means if this guy is supposed to get killed, then I'll take
his place and get killed in his place.
^ There are multiple times where he makes similar references, but he breaks it down here. Calabrese implied it was sort of a rule in Chicago that if you bungle a murder you get killed for it. We know this happened on rare occasions in other Families but it seems to have hung over members/associates' heads in Chicago. He said his brother Frank told him multiple times to "flatten" (kill) guys if they balked or made mistakes on hits.
Q. Did you have occasion to discuss with him the history of
organized crime?
A. Yeah, we talked about it. He seemed to know -- he was
very knowledgeable about a lot of things, he had heard stories
and stuff.
^ About Marcello knowing a lot about the history. Wish we knew the full substance of those conversations. Calabrese was lacking with the historic side.
A. Well, he had said that he would tell my brother that I
would in link with him rather than with my brother afterwards
.
Q. And what did that mean?
A. That mean that I belong to his crew, be under him rather
than my brother.
Q. So if I have it right, Jimmy Marcello said you would be
under "him" meaning --

A. Jimmy.
Q. Jimmy Marcello s?
A. Right.
Q. And what from your brother's crew?
A. Right.

Q. Are you saying that the 26th Street Crew's territory was
wells and Halsted?
A. There was no boundary when it came to giving money or
booking and stuff
, we had customers all over.
Q. All over everywhere, right?
A. Right.
Q. There were no boundaries when it came to killings or
extortion, were there?
A. No.
^ First part shows in Chicago a soldier could be transferred to another crew and the second part he makes it clear there weren't geographic boundaries for crews. We know three of LaPorte's soldiers requested a crew transfer decades earlier, so this is another example of it being discussed. Also tells us association between two guys in an area doesn't mean they're with the same crew.
Q. Well, you claim you were a made man and people respected
you for that
and you liked that, didn't you?
A. No, I did not like the fact that people would -- would
look at me and respect me for that, because it was only a very
few people that knew.
^ Says "only a very few people" knew he was made. Plays into what we've discussed about the level of secrecy this Family had about membership.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by cavita »

B. wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:02 am Thanks for sharing, Chin. Here are some sections I noticed:
The following week, we knew where he lived and we
went there. He wasn't there. And some time later we found
out he ran back to Rockford.
Q. Did he resume criminal activities somewhere else?
A. In Rockford.
Q. Now, with respect to Frank and Joe from Rockford, after
you had your meeting, you and your brother had the meeting
with the two of them, at some point did they resume
becoming agents for your bookmaking business?
A. I don't believe, no. I think that was the end of it.

Q. And was there any sort of dispute over whether they
would continue working for or with your crew?
A. Yes, there was something set up with my brother, and
Angelo LaPietra, Jimmy Marcello and Sam Carlisi drove out
to Rockford one night to go sit down with the people out
there
, somebody out there--who it was I don't know. I
didn't go--and to straighten out this whole thing with
Gumba and Frank and Joe.
Q. Did your brother tell you why it was Sam Carlisi and
James Marcello were part of this sit-down?
A. That they knew the guy from out that way, that's why
they went out there.
Q. The guy --
A. The guy --
Q. The counterpart?

A. Yeah, out there.
^ Carlisi and Marcello knew Frank and Joe's superiors in Rockford, probably members/leaders there. What stands out is Chicago didn't just bully Rockford into giving up their associates but respected Rockford's claim to them after the sitdown.
In response to this sit-down that was had in '80 0r '81 at the end of the year according to Calabrese, it was between LaPietra, Marcello and Carlisi and the Rockford "counterpart," which I believe was boss Joe Zammuto who was still heading the family at 85 years old. Carlisi had just attended the funeral of Rockford LCN consigliere Joe Zito in June 1981 along with Joey Aiuppa (I have surveillance photos of them with Zammuto at this funeral) so they were very familiar with each other. Rockford underboss Frank Buscemi may have also been present given his longstanding ties to Chicago.
One thing telling is an excerpt from Ronnie Jarrett's FBI file which stated:

On October 7, 1981, [REDACTED] advised Special Agent [REDACTED] as follows: [REDACTED] reportedly has not been seen for several weeks and is reportedly on the run for some reason. A friend of source’s was asked to be on the lookout for [REDACTED] and if seen, to note when and where he was seen and what the plate was on the vehicle he was driving. The request was made of the friend by [REDACTED] known to have connections with Angelo LaPietra.

It's clear here that Frank Saladino was "on the run" as it says and the timing lines up with what Calabrese stated as well as the mentioning of LaPietra.
I'm wondering if when Saladino was found dead in April 2005 in Hampshire, Illinois with the $80,000 or so scattered about his room, was he welcomed back to Chicago as a gambling partner or were those strictly proceeds of Rockford's gambling interests.
I think Snakes had said when the surveillance photos of Frank Saladino and Salvatore Galluzzo were displayed at the Family Secrets trial, those photos were from the April 1989 meeting between them and Sam Carlisi and Jimmy Marcello at a restaurant in Rockford.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by funkster »

Cavita, not sure ive seen those photos can you post them?

Jimmy Marcello always struck me as a very smart guy and his family was involved for a long time, would be amazing to hear the stories he could tell.
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by cavita »

funkster wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:43 pm Cavita, not sure ive seen those photos can you post them?

Jimmy Marcello always struck me as a very smart guy and his family was involved for a long time, would be amazing to hear the stories he could tell.
April 20, 1989
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Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

funkster wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:43 pm Jimmy Marcello always struck me as a very smart guy and his family was involved for a long time, would be amazing to hear the stories he could tell.
Yeah, the comment about Marcello knowing a lot of history is pretty tantalizing. Guy’s still alive, maybe he’ll survive long enough to get released from ADX and talk to someone just about the historical stuff.

Thing about Marcello is that he was also the protege of Carlisi. The Carlisi/Tornabene family, I strongly suspect, was connected to the mafia going back to Agrigento, and Giuseppe Carlisi was quite possibly a member of the Buffalo and Chicago families. Plus the connection to Aiuppa. One can imagine that Marcello picked up a lot of things around these guys over the years, especially if he was the kind of guy who was intelligent and interested in that sort of thing. In the mob there are always guys who are interested in the history along with guys who couldn’t care less, of course.

Jimmy’s paternal grandmother, Anna Annoreno, was from Tèrmini Imerese, which was a core town in the early formation of the mafia in Chicago, so it’s possible that Jimmy’s dad learned things from his family also.
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