Visiting the West Side 1963

[eboli]

Not sure if this was the Genovese modus operandi in the 60s, but seeing how secretive they usually are (especially Lombardo) - for someone to have intimate knowledge of their activities its probable its within the family?

This unsuccessful kidnapping was just around the time they became super secretive. Catena started scolding his subordinates who talked shop in their house, at their mistresses, or in their cars. Lombardo decided to take precautions with his travels. At the time, he was still kind of in a messenger role.

He passed orders between Vito in prison, Mike Coppola in Florida, Fat Tony and Eboli in NYC, etc. He was all over the place. It was years later when he became the mythological gangster Cafaro described. Then again, Lombardo's serious health issues since the late 1960s played a part in the legend.

[InCamelot]

Mike Miranda, Mike Coppola, Eugene Catena, Richie Boiardo, Funzi Tieri, Tony Carillo, the Chicago Outfit, and Carlo Gambino supported Jerry. Also, Phil Lombardo wasn't interested in becoming boss. He actively supported Catena during Eboli's attempts to wrestle the family out of Catena's hands.

Guys like Alo, Mogavero, and Celembrino were neutral but leaned toward the Eboli faction. Defeo and DeCarlo were the hardliners who wanted Catena out. I covered these events in more detail in my Catena write-up.

Does the evidence detail any possible reasoning as to Alo, Mogavero and Celembrino's reasons for leaning towards Eboli? I guess this is feeling-based but I would've thought Alo and Catena would've been closer to each other.

Its also interesting that former Miranda crew members who became captains made their own decisions on who to lean towards, rather than stick together as a "faction" (behaviour which is so often speculated upon on forums)

Alo would've gained territory and influence if the Eboli faction killed Catena. Same for DeCarlo, who was on good terms with the Catena brothers. What's funny is that there's probably nobody in the mob who did more for DeCarlo than Catena, despite that Gyp still hated his guts.

Basically, it boiled down to the fact that Eboli couldn't garner enough support and that most NYC captains were fine with Catena because he didn't meddle in their business as long as they were making money. Catena had half the family loyal to him, Chicago, Gambino, Bruno, Lucchese, DeCavalcante. In 1969, they had to beg him to accept to become boss. There were multiple meetings between February and April. By that point, everybody in the Genovese family had fallen in line, including Eboli.

By the way, was Alo considered a captain who was closer to that upper-echelon on Westside captains like Salerno, Tieri, Lombardo, etc? It seemed that the geographical span of his activities, his closeness to certain bosses and his longevity points to him being a step above your average captain. He was never considered as a candidate for a position in the adminstration?

[eboli]

By the way, was Alo considered a captain who was closer to that upper-echelon on Westside captains like Salerno, Tieri, Lombardo, etc? It seemed that the geographical span of his activities, his closeness to certain bosses and his longevity points to him being a step above your average captain. He was never considered as a candidate for a position in the adminstration?

Alo was all over the place. He did his business and detached himself from family politics as much as possible. At least that's my understanding of his early years as captain. In that regard, he was similar to Jerry Catena and Augie Pisano. Catena became boss thanks to circumstances because Vito was too paranoid not to promote him to UB. But, yeah - I think Alo had a special place in the family. He was an OG and well-respected by almost everybody. I think he could've been more involved in the family's politicking if he wanted.

In the 1960s, even the cops talked openly to reporters about how guys like Alo, Catena, and Miranda became venerated by younger mobsters because they survived the wars and struggles of the 1920s and 1930s.

[InCamelot]

Alo was all over the place. He did his business and detached himself from family politics as much as possible. At least that's my understanding of his early years as captain. In that regard, he was similar to Jerry Catena and Augie Pisano. Catena became boss thanks to circumstances because Vito was too paranoid not to promote him to UB. But, yeah - I think Alo had a special place in the family. He was an OG and well-respected by almost everybody. I think he could've been more involved in the family's politicking if he wanted.

In the 1960s, even the cops talked openly to reporters about how guys like Alo, Catena, and Miranda became venerated by younger mobsters because they survived the wars and struggles of the 1920s and 1930s.

In the subjected of being venerated: as far as your research can tell, did Alo (or any captains, especially the older ones for that matter) have any role in OK'ing the Chin for boss in the early 80s? Or were captains not voting the way they used to by then and it was simply passed from Tieri to Lombardo to Gigante? I haven't seen anything to indicate the captains were deliberating on who would succeed Tieri in 1980.
It seems like one school of thought believes "if you're retired you're retired" while another believes their word in political matters always has some sway (if they choose to be involved of course).

[JoelTurner]

Not sure if this was the Genovese modus operandi in the 60s, but seeing how secretive they usually are (especially Lombardo) - for someone to have intimate knowledge of their activities its probable its within the family?

This unsuccessful kidnapping was just around the time they became super secretive. Catena started scolding his subordinates who talked shop in their house, at their mistresses, or in their cars. Lombardo decided to take precautions with his travels. At the time, he was still kind of in a messenger role.

He passed orders between Vito in prison, Mike Coppola in Florida, Fat Tony and Eboli in NYC, etc. He was all over the place. It was years later when he became the mythological gangster Cafaro described. Then again, Lombardo's serious health issues since the late 1960s played a part in the legend.

It would be interesting if the was the what triggered his secrecy. What was his and Fat Tony's exact ranks at this time?

Lombardo would have been acting captain for Mike Coppola, but then what was Fat Tony?

[HairyKnuckles]

I can see Miranda being Lanza’s captain but where does Adonis fit in? Wasn’t he a Brooklyn-New Jersey guy? Did he have any other ties to Lower Manhattan?

What crew was Angelo Fiore with?

Adonis was a Brooklyn guy who also had operations in New Jersey, Manhattan, Florida, and Upstate New York. Fiore was from a Manhattan crew, but I don't know which one. Maybe HK can help, if he sees this post.

I can only contribute with the little I know about this. Angelo Fiore, although originally a South Brooklyn guy, associated himself with Genovese guys based in the Bath Beach section of Brooklyn; Joe "Jinx" Famularo, Louis LaRocca, Nick Galante and Danny Noto. Some indication show that these guys were under Frank Celano, a captain who was based in Manhattan. So when Eboli says Fiore was from a Manhattan crew, it could very well be the case.
Noto is interesting and brings some confusion. On a FBI list dated April 1974, Noto shows up as a captain. Although his name is redacted, indications points at it is him. B discovered that Noto was later transfered to the DeCavalcante Family so that transfer must have occured some time after 1974.

As for the Lanza brothers, it is indeed Harry Lanza who was a captain. Who knows, Joe "Socks" may have been a skipper in the early days, we just don´t know, but I have not seen any official FBI information on Joe being a skipper in the1960s. Harry Lanza was demoted or stepped down sometime in the early 1970s and Toddo Marino took over his crew. The control of The United Seafood Workers Union (Local 359) which in turn had a stronghold on the Fulton Fish Market, went to Carmine "Fish" Romano. It´s wrong to assume that the whole of Fulton Fish Market was controlled by one single Genovese crew and evidence show that other Families had interests there as well, for example the Bonanno Family. But the Seafood Workers Union was definitely the child of the Lanza brothers.

[eboli]

In the subjected of being venerated: as far as your research can tell, did Alo (or any captains, especially the older ones for that matter) have any role in OK'ing the Chin for boss in the early 80s? Or were captains not voting the way they used to by then and it was simply passed from Tieri to Lombardo to Gigante? I haven't seen anything to indicate the captains were deliberating on who would succeed Tieri in 1980.
It seems like one school of thought believes "if you're retired you're retired" while another believes their word in political matters always has some sway (if they choose to be involved of course).

I'm sure Alo had a role in okaying the new boss. It's unclear how much influence he had, especially in the late 1970s and 1980s. By that point, various members of the Greenwich Village and 116th Street Crew dominated the family's politics.

Either way, it's tradition for the Genovese to vote and discuss their bosses:

Vito - strongarmed Costello into retirement; regardless, all the captains went to his house at a meeting in NJ in May 1957 and pledged their support (Augie Pisano was the only exception)

Catena - series of meetings between February and April 1969 where the captains had to beg him to accept the position

Tieri - series of meetings between August and October 1972; eventually, Tieri ( who was the UB or AB at the time ) edged Lombardo, who was the other serious candidate

1980 - There was a high-level meeting in late 1980. In this meeting, Tieri stepped down as boss. Then, depending on which source you want to believe, Fat Tony got elected boss, or they set up a ruling panel with Chin, Fat Tony, and Lombardo sitting on it. Then Fat Tony had a stroke in January 1981, and Lombardo took over as official boss from February for most of the year. By late 1981, Lombardo had stepped down, and Chin took over. By that point, Fat Tony had recovered and became the de facto acting boss; Lombardo retired.

It would be interesting if the was the what triggered his secrecy. What was his and Fat Tony's exact ranks at this time?

Lombardo would have been acting captain for Mike Coppola, but then what was Fat Tony?

The 116th Street Crew had a special arrangement. In the late 1950s and 1960s, Coppola, Lombardo, and Fat Tony ran the crew together. Almost like a panel. Coppola was the capo, of course, but the other two had influential roles and technically ran everything for him. New recruits went in front of all three to get approval, etc. So when Fat Tony saved Barone's life, he could've been only a soldier, but he wielded more influence than a regular soldier. Lombardo was the same way, to the point he surprised even the FBI that he had a low rank.

[InCamelot]

In the subjected of being venerated: as far as your research can tell, did Alo (or any captains, especially the older ones for that matter) have any role in OK'ing the Chin for boss in the early 80s? Or were captains not voting the way they used to by then and it was simply passed from Tieri to Lombardo to Gigante? I haven't seen anything to indicate the captains were deliberating on who would succeed Tieri in 1980.
It seems like one school of thought believes "if you're retired you're retired" while another believes their word in political matters always has some sway (if they choose to be involved of course).

1980 - There was a high-level meeting in late 1980. In this meeting, Tieri stepped down as boss. Then, depending on which source you want to believe, Fat Tony got elected boss, or they set up a ruling panel with Chin, Fat Tony, and Lombardo sitting on it. Then Fat Tony had a stroke in January 1981, and Lombardo took over as official boss from February for most of the year. By late 1981, Lombardo had stepped down, and Chin took over. By that point, Fat Tony had recovered and became the de facto acting boss; Lombardo retired.

Are there any details on this particular meeting in terms of location and attendees? You mention it was high-level, but were some if not all the captains present?

[eboli]

Are there any details on this particular meeting in terms of location and attendees? You mention it was high-level, but were some if not all the captains present?

It happened in early November. There were multiple high-ranking members, so it wasn't just the admin. I haven't seen anything confirming or even suggesting a possible location. Two different informers confirmed it to the FBI. The first one said Tieri stepped down; the second said the family forced Tieri to step down. Tieri's RICO trial started a few weeks earlier, and he was in dismal health, so those are the most likely factors why this meeting took place at the time it did. Another report stated that Salerno, Chin, and Lombardo aided Tieri in running the family day-to-day since early 1980 because he couldn't handle it anymore.

[InCamelot]

Are there any details on this particular meeting in terms of location and attendees? You mention it was high-level, but were some if not all the captains present?

It happened in early November. There were multiple high-ranking members, so it wasn't just the admin. I haven't seen anything confirming or even suggesting a possible location. Two different informers confirmed it to the FBI. The first one said Tieri stepped down; the second said the family forced Tieri to step down. Tieri's RICO trial started a few weeks earlier, and he was in dismal health, so those are the most likely factors why this meeting took place at the time it did. Another report stated that Salerno, Chin, and Lombardo aided Tieri in running the family day-to-day since early 1980 because he couldn't handle it anymore.

Interesting, appreciate all this.

I wonder if even though Tieri ended up stepping down, the "faction" that he represented had to still be placated in one way or another. Not sure if in reality that was comprised of former members of the Miranda crew, a Brooklyn faction or just the Lombardi crew though.

[eboli]

Interesting, appreciate all this.

I wonder if even though Tieri ended up stepping down, the "faction" that he represented had to still be placated in one way or another. Not sure if in reality that was comprised of former members of the Miranda crew, a Brooklyn faction or just the Lombardi crew though.

Tieri didn't represent a clearly defined faction, to the best of my knowledge. If you count Tieri - Lombardo - Catena as a faction, this might've been it. They had mutual respect and worked together. Lombardo operated largely autonomously under Tieri.

When Lombardo became the official boss in 1981, there were reports that Catena became his consigliere. Personally, I don't buy it, but even if Catena wasn't consigliere, he was involved to some degree in the decision-making process until Lombardo stepped down. Likely as an unofficial advisor. Even before that, Genovese mobsters often traveled to Florida to seek his opinion on important matters. After 1981, both retired, and there were no more reports or rumors about their involvement in any Cosa Nostra business from then until their deaths.

So in a way, the period between 1980 and 1981 symbolized the changing of the guard in the Genovese family. The guys who were the shot callers for the previous 20 years were no more. And it happened in less than a calendar year.

[InCamelot]

1. Regarding Springfield - the crew could've been active earlier than we know, but we don't have the info, and the feds didn't either. As far as I could find - the earliest information on Cufari as capo is from the late 1960s. I haven't researched the topic in detail, though.

2. Louis Gatto inherited the crew from Pete 'Lodi' LaPlaca in the late 1970s. LaPlaca took over as official captain shortly after Eugene Catena's death from cancer in 1967. Initially, Tommy Pecora was Catena's direct successor, but he either stepped down or served only in an acting capacity for a couple of months.

3. Ianniello and Ardito's crews are off-shoots from the Miranda split. Ianniello was under Tony Sheikh; Ardito under Celano. The Malangone Crew is the Gus Frasca crew and already existed when the Miranda crew got disbanded.

4. We can trace the lineage of the Generoso crew to the mid to late 1960s. Not much info. Vincenzo Generoso was part of Tommy Licata's illegal operations in the late 1940s, but it's unknown when he got made, and if he was under Licata. Mikey Dimino took over in the 1970s.

5. The Gangi crew was the former Mogavero crew, headed by Joe Lapi in the early 1970s. My opinion is that by 1963 Mogavero was a skipper who split from Pellegrino, but even if he wasn't, by the late 1960s, he was 100% a captain.

Did Celano, or even Miranda already have operations in The Bronx or at what point did Ardito move uptown? Did he become capo over a whole new set of guys when he made that move?

[eboli]

Did Celano, or even Miranda already have operations in The Bronx or at what point did Ardito move uptown? Did he become capo over a whole new set of guys when he made that move?

Celano had some operations in Manhattan, Bronx, Queens, and Upstate New York. When Ardito took over the crew, he moved the HQ from Manhattan to the Bronx - this happened in the 70s. Almost twenty years later, Bellomo did something similar with the 116th Street Crew when he moved the HQ from East Harlem to the Bronx.

[InCamelot]

Did Celano, or even Miranda already have operations in The Bronx or at what point did Ardito move uptown? Did he become capo over a whole new set of guys when he made that move?

Celano had some operations in Manhattan, Bronx, Queens, and Upstate New York. When Ardito took over the crew, he moved the HQ from Manhattan to the Bronx - this happened in the 70s. Almost twenty years later, Bellomo did something similar with the 116th Street Crew when he moved the HQ from East Harlem to the Bronx.

Any further details on Celano? For a guy who succeeded Miranda he's pretty under the radar.

[InCamelot]

Did Celano, or even Miranda already have operations in The Bronx or at what point did Ardito move uptown? Did he become capo over a whole new set of guys when he made that move?

Celano had some operations in Manhattan, Bronx, Queens, and Upstate New York. When Ardito took over the crew, he moved the HQ from Manhattan to the Bronx - this happened in the 70s. Almost twenty years later, Bellomo did something similar with the 116th Street Crew when he moved the HQ from East Harlem to the Bronx.

At some point the Ardito was also in the administration in the 70s, so I wonder who was acting for his crew and what that crew's succession really is. Former Alo members like Centore, Cockeyed Nick, and even Rudy Santobello and Joe Dente Sr were already in the Bronx at that time, but I never could tell if Ardito had any overlap with them. I recall that Santobello acted for Ardito in the 80s when he was in prison, but I had thought him and Dente Sr were always under Larry Black Centore as well.

And then its possible Mario Gigante was in the picture by the 80s.