Visiting the West Side 1963

[JoelTurner]

Toddo Del Ducca
Tony Carillo
Frank Celano
Sal Celambrino
Pete Defeo

When Del Ducca died in 1960, Tieri inherited his operations

Celambrino and the Del Ducca-Tieri crews were both based out of Brooklyn. Would that rule them out as Lanza’s captain?

If we assume the control of the Fulton Fish Market stayed with the head of the same crew Lanza was in at the time of his death, a plausible timeline goes as follows:

Adonis (1930s-1950s) -> Miranda (1950s) -> Del Ducca (late 1950s-early 1960s) -> Pellegrino/Mogavero (early 1960s-early 1970s)-> Lapi (1970s) ->Gaccione (1980s) -> Gangi (late 1980s-1990s)

I can see Miranda being Lanza’s captain but where does Adonis fit in? Wasn’t he a Brooklyn-New Jersey guy? Did he have any other ties to Lower Manhattan?

Neither of them were capos. Fiore was a semi-retired member. Santuccio was a soldier of the Greenwich Village Crew. You can see his mug in this chart I did some time back: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7147&hilit=greenwich+village

That’s a super cool chart, great work!

I knew Bobby Doyle was a member of the Greenwich Village crew; I didn’t think he was a captain.

What crew was Angelo Fiore with?

[Antiliar]

This doc from 1965 indicates that Harry "Socks" Lanza was an important captain: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... %20miranda

I also don't understand the Fulton Fish market timeline and why it would be bounced around to different crews.

[eboli]

I can see Miranda being Lanza’s captain but where does Adonis fit in? Wasn’t he a Brooklyn-New Jersey guy? Did he have any other ties to Lower Manhattan?

What crew was Angelo Fiore with?

Adonis was a Brooklyn guy who also had operations in New Jersey, Manhattan, Florida, and Upstate New York. Fiore was from a Manhattan crew, but I don't know which one. Maybe HK can help, if he sees this post.

I also don't understand the Fulton Fish market timeline and why it would be bounced around to different crews.

My timeline is a possible explanation of how things went if Lanza was not a captain. The power in the market went with Lanza until he died, then it transferred to Gangi's crew, but there's a gap of 15-20 years in which we don't know what happened. I'm trying to make it make sense while accounting for other internal factors like the family's re-organization, Mogavero's emergence, the Pellegrino split, etc. Basically, I make educated guesses, lol.

Here are just the facts:

1920s-1930s - Lanza starts his operations in Fulton Fish Market
1942 - Operation Underworld documents suggest he was a soldier under Adonis
1956 - Adonis deported; shortly after, information emerges that Lanza is Miranda's guy
1957 - Miranda crew split
1957-1968 - conflicting info about Lanza's rank
1970s - Carmine Romano becomes the Genovese point man in the market; conflicting reports about Romano's rank
1980s - Captains Ross Gangi and Alphonse Malangone are co-controllers of the market

[JoelTurner]

This doc from 1965 indicates that Harry "Socks" Lanza was an important captain: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... %20miranda

I also don't understand the Fulton Fish market timeline and why it would be bounced around to different crews.

That document puts Harry Lanza pretty squarely as a captain. Plus, it doesn't say that was acting for his brother unlike Saro who was acting for Pellegrino.

It's interesting though: If Mogavero, Lanza, Alo, Angelina, DeCarlo, and Eboli all wanted Philip Lombardo, who was backing Catena? Miranda had his own designs and was probably supported by Boiardo.

[eboli]

Mike Miranda, Mike Coppola, Eugene Catena, Richie Boiardo, Funzi Tieri, Tony Carillo, the Chicago Outfit, and Carlo Gambino supported Jerry. Also, Phil Lombardo wasn't interested in becoming boss. He actively supported Catena during Eboli's attempts to wrestle the family out of Catena's hands.

Guys like Alo, Mogavero, and Celembrino were neutral but leaned toward the Eboli faction. Defeo and DeCarlo were the hardliners who wanted Catena out. I covered these events in more detail in my Catena write-up.

[TSNYC]

Mike Miranda, Mike Coppola, Eugene Catena, Richie Boiardo, Funzi Tieri, Tony Carillo, the Chicago Outfit, and Carlo Gambino supported Jerry. Also, Phil Lombardo wasn't interested in becoming boss. He actively supported Catena during Eboli's attempts to wrestle the family out of Catena's hands.

Guys like Alo, Mogavero, and Celembrino were neutral but leaned toward the Eboli faction. Defeo and DeCarlo were the hardliners who wanted Catena out. I covered these events in more detail in my Catena write-up.

Can you link to the Catena write up? That’s pretty interesting about Pete DeFeo opposing Catena, but his former capo Mike Miranda backing Catena. Def seems Catena had the weight behind him.

[InCamelot]

Mike Miranda, Mike Coppola, Eugene Catena, Richie Boiardo, Funzi Tieri, Tony Carillo, the Chicago Outfit, and Carlo Gambino supported Jerry. Also, Phil Lombardo wasn't interested in becoming boss. He actively supported Catena during Eboli's attempts to wrestle the family out of Catena's hands.

Guys like Alo, Mogavero, and Celembrino were neutral but leaned toward the Eboli faction. Defeo and DeCarlo were the hardliners who wanted Catena out. I covered these events in more detail in my Catena write-up.

Does the evidence detail any possible reasoning as to Alo, Mogavero and Celembrino's reasons for leaning towards Eboli? I guess this is feeling-based but I would've thought Alo and Catena would've been closer to each other.

Its also interesting that former Miranda crew members who became captains made their own decisions on who to lean towards, rather than stick together as a "faction" (behaviour which is so often speculated upon on forums)

[eboli]

Mike Miranda, Mike Coppola, Eugene Catena, Richie Boiardo, Funzi Tieri, Tony Carillo, the Chicago Outfit, and Carlo Gambino supported Jerry. Also, Phil Lombardo wasn't interested in becoming boss. He actively supported Catena during Eboli's attempts to wrestle the family out of Catena's hands.

Guys like Alo, Mogavero, and Celembrino were neutral but leaned toward the Eboli faction. Defeo and DeCarlo were the hardliners who wanted Catena out. I covered these events in more detail in my Catena write-up.

Can you link to the Catena write up? That’s pretty interesting about Pete DeFeo opposing Catena, but his former capo Mike Miranda backing Catena. Def seems Catena had the weight behind him.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8357
You'll have to talk to Soliai about access to the section, though.

Mike Miranda, Mike Coppola, Eugene Catena, Richie Boiardo, Funzi Tieri, Tony Carillo, the Chicago Outfit, and Carlo Gambino supported Jerry. Also, Phil Lombardo wasn't interested in becoming boss. He actively supported Catena during Eboli's attempts to wrestle the family out of Catena's hands.

Guys like Alo, Mogavero, and Celembrino were neutral but leaned toward the Eboli faction. Defeo and DeCarlo were the hardliners who wanted Catena out. I covered these events in more detail in my Catena write-up.

Does the evidence detail any possible reasoning as to Alo, Mogavero and Celembrino's reasons for leaning towards Eboli? I guess this is feeling-based but I would've thought Alo and Catena would've been closer to each other.

Its also interesting that former Miranda crew members who became captains made their own decisions on who to lean towards, rather than stick together as a "faction" (behaviour which is so often speculated upon on forums)

Alo would've gained territory and influence if the Eboli faction killed Catena. Same for DeCarlo, who was on good terms with the Catena brothers. What's funny is that there's probably nobody in the mob who did more for DeCarlo than Catena, despite that Gyp still hated his guts.

Mogavero had some troubles with Catena on the New Jersey ports. Joseph Barone and Johnny Dio had similar problems - Catena was very territorial and didn't like people coming to New Jersey and starting operations on the docks without his blessings. Dio had to transfer some rackets to Catena to get permission. Barone thought he could get away with it without paying tribute because he was a fellow Genovese member and almost got killed for his bravado. Fat Tony saved his life.

I haven't found anything relating to Celembrino's issues with Catena; same for DeFeo, but unlike Celembrino, who was trying to stay neutral, DeFeo was firmly in Eboli's camp.

Basically, it boiled down to the fact that Eboli couldn't garner enough support and that most NYC captains were fine with Catena because he didn't meddle in their business as long as they were making money. Catena had half the family loyal to him, Chicago, Gambino, Bruno, Lucchese, DeCavalcante. In 1969, they had to beg him to accept to become boss. There were multiple meetings between February and April. By that point, everybody in the Genovese family had fallen in line, including Eboli.

[Clark]

The add to the confusion about The Fish Market, prior to Romano the power seemed to be with Carmine Russo, his uncle. It always came across as a lot of intertwined relationships and various crews who were connected through family and friends with the legit businesses. Even before Gangi being 'in charge,' his family had been at the market for years. The Bonanos had a presence too.

[InCamelot]

Mike Miranda, Mike Coppola, Eugene Catena, Richie Boiardo, Funzi Tieri, Tony Carillo, the Chicago Outfit, and Carlo Gambino supported Jerry. Also, Phil Lombardo wasn't interested in becoming boss. He actively supported Catena during Eboli's attempts to wrestle the family out of Catena's hands.

Guys like Alo, Mogavero, and Celembrino were neutral but leaned toward the Eboli faction. Defeo and DeCarlo were the hardliners who wanted Catena out. I covered these events in more detail in my Catena write-up.

Can you link to the Catena write up? That’s pretty interesting about Pete DeFeo opposing Catena, but his former capo Mike Miranda backing Catena. Def seems Catena had the weight behind him.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8357
You'll have to talk to Soliai about access to the section, though.

Mike Miranda, Mike Coppola, Eugene Catena, Richie Boiardo, Funzi Tieri, Tony Carillo, the Chicago Outfit, and Carlo Gambino supported Jerry. Also, Phil Lombardo wasn't interested in becoming boss. He actively supported Catena during Eboli's attempts to wrestle the family out of Catena's hands.

Guys like Alo, Mogavero, and Celembrino were neutral but leaned toward the Eboli faction. Defeo and DeCarlo were the hardliners who wanted Catena out. I covered these events in more detail in my Catena write-up.

Does the evidence detail any possible reasoning as to Alo, Mogavero and Celembrino's reasons for leaning towards Eboli? I guess this is feeling-based but I would've thought Alo and Catena would've been closer to each other.

Its also interesting that former Miranda crew members who became captains made their own decisions on who to lean towards, rather than stick together as a "faction" (behaviour which is so often speculated upon on forums)

Alo would've gained territory and influence if the Eboli faction killed Catena. Same for DeCarlo, who was on good terms with the Catena brothers. What's funny is that there's probably nobody in the mob who did more for DeCarlo than Catena, despite that Gyp still hated his guts.

Mogavero had some troubles with Catena on the New Jersey ports. Joseph Barone and Johnny Dio had similar problems - Catena was very territorial and didn't like people coming to New Jersey and starting operations on the docks without his blessings. Dio had to transfer some rackets to Catena to get permission. Barone thought he could get away with it without paying tribute because he was a fellow Genovese member and almost got killed for his bravado. Fat Tony saved his life.

I haven't found anything relating to Celembrino's issues with Catena; same for DeFeo, but unlike Celembrino, who was trying to stay neutral, DeFeo was firmly in Eboli's camp.

Basically, it boiled down to the fact that Eboli couldn't garner enough support and that most NYC captains were fine with Catena because he didn't meddle in their business as long as they were making money. Catena had half the family loyal to him, Chicago, Gambino, Bruno, Lucchese, DeCavalcante. In 1969, they had to beg him to accept to become boss. There were multiple meetings between February and April. By that point, everybody in the Genovese family had fallen in line, including Eboli.

There was something I read in someone else's notes about DeFeo being quite power hungry/greedy or something.

A poster on another forum had mentioned there were wiretaps of Alo and Catena after they were retired in Florida. Apparently they were neighbours and Phil Lombardo lived nearby too. Not sure of its validity though.

[eboli]

There was something I read in someone else's notes about DeFeo being quite power hungry/greedy or something.

A poster on another forum had mentioned there were wiretaps of Alo and Catena after they were retired in Florida. Apparently they were neighbours and Phil Lombardo lived nearby too. Not sure of its validity though.

Alo, Catena, Lombardo, and Coppola lived close to each other in Florida. They would regularly meet over there for dinner, to play golf, etc. Allegedly, that's how Lombardo formed a close relationship with Catena. In the early 1960s, the FBI uncovered a plot of unnamed organized crime figures who planned to kidnap Catena and Lombardo while both were down there.

[PolackTony]

There was something I read in someone else's notes about DeFeo being quite power hungry/greedy or something.

A poster on another forum had mentioned there were wiretaps of Alo and Catena after they were retired in Florida. Apparently they were neighbours and Phil Lombardo lived nearby too. Not sure of its validity though.

Alo, Catena, Lombardo, and Coppola lived close to each other in Florida. They would regularly meet over there for dinner, to play golf, etc. Allegedly, that's how Lombardo formed a close relationship with Catena. In the early 1960s, the FBI uncovered a plot of unnamed organized crime figures who planned to kidnap Catena and Lombardo while both were down there.

You stated that these alleged plotters were unnamed, but any idea who or which family/ies may have been involved? Did it seem like an internal Genovese thing?

[JoelTurner]

In the early 1960s, the FBI uncovered a plot of unnamed organized crime figures who planned to kidnap Catena and Lombardo while both were down there.

That would be a huge move. Who would even be able to pull it off?

[eboli]

There was something I read in someone else's notes about DeFeo being quite power hungry/greedy or something.

A poster on another forum had mentioned there were wiretaps of Alo and Catena after they were retired in Florida. Apparently they were neighbours and Phil Lombardo lived nearby too. Not sure of its validity though.

Alo, Catena, Lombardo, and Coppola lived close to each other in Florida. They would regularly meet over there for dinner, to play golf, etc. Allegedly, that's how Lombardo formed a close relationship with Catena. In the early 1960s, the FBI uncovered a plot of unnamed organized crime figures who planned to kidnap Catena and Lombardo while both were down there.

You stated that these alleged plotters were unnamed, but any idea who or which family/ies may have been involved? Did it seem like an internal Genovese thing?

In the early 1960s, the FBI uncovered a plot of unnamed organized crime figures who planned to kidnap Catena and Lombardo while both were down there.

That would be a huge move. Who would even be able to pull it off?

In the files I have, the FBI didn't indicate who the planners were. They mentioned, however, that the people planning this had intimate knowledge of Catena and Lombardo's activities in Florida, which points the finger at Cosa Nostra associates. The bagman got cold feet and got in touch with the feds. After that, the Miami Field Office contacted Catena (and Lombardo). I'll post the excerpts later because I can't find them easily. I had to read 20k+ pages of docs for the Catena research, and this specific info is somewhere in there.

Here's the relevant part of my article:

By the early 1960s, Jerry Catena spent more of his time in Florida, enjoying the warm weather and playing golf on the local courses. The FBI's field office in Miami trailed him and recorded his activities. They noted that Catena was golfing with one of their snitches. Catena somehow learned his golfing buddy was a federal informant and began feeding him false information. Another thing the Miami office uncovered was a kidnapping plot targeting Catena and a high-level lieutenant of caporegime Michael 'Trigger Mike' Coppola. The unnamed lieutenant was likely Philip 'Cockeyed Phil' Lombardo, a friend of Catena since their days as mob couriers. They often met in Florida when they were down there on business or vacation.

The FBI learned about the plot from the designated bag man. He advised that Catena and Lombardo were supposed to be abducted and held for ransom on a boat offshore by his gang the next time both of them were in the Miami region. The idea failed in its infancy because the informant chickened out and informed both Catena and the feds. It's unclear if the plotters were Cosa Nostra members or external criminal elements familiar with the organization's structures. Catena was visibly shaken when he learned about the plot and requested that his wife Catherine be kept in the dark because he didn't want to worry her.

[InCamelot]

There was something I read in someone else's notes about DeFeo being quite power hungry/greedy or something.

A poster on another forum had mentioned there were wiretaps of Alo and Catena after they were retired in Florida. Apparently they were neighbours and Phil Lombardo lived nearby too. Not sure of its validity though.

Alo, Catena, Lombardo, and Coppola lived close to each other in Florida. They would regularly meet over there for dinner, to play golf, etc. Allegedly, that's how Lombardo formed a close relationship with Catena. In the early 1960s, the FBI uncovered a plot of unnamed organized crime figures who planned to kidnap Catena and Lombardo while both were down there.

You stated that these alleged plotters were unnamed, but any idea who or which family/ies may have been involved? Did it seem like an internal Genovese thing?

In the early 1960s, the FBI uncovered a plot of unnamed organized crime figures who planned to kidnap Catena and Lombardo while both were down there.

That would be a huge move. Who would even be able to pull it off?

In the files I have, the FBI didn't indicate who the planners were. They mentioned, however, that the people planning this had intimate knowledge of Catena and Lombardo's activities in Florida, which points the finger at Cosa Nostra associates. The bagman got cold feet and got in touch with the feds. After that, the Miami Field Office contacted Catena (and Lombardo). I'll post the excerpts later because I can't find them easily. I had to read 20k+ pages of docs for the Catena research, and this specific info is somewhere in there.

Not sure if this was the Genovese modus operandi in the 60s, but seeing how secretive they usually are (especially Lombardo) - for someone to have intimate knowledge of their activities its probable its within the family?