Is there even a commission anymore?

[Pogo The Clown]

Administration representatives from multiple families meeting to discuss Cosa Nostra business is the fucking definition of a commission and is PRECISELY what his meet was for.

Not really. The NY Bosses have been meeting to discuss business decades before the Commission was formed. The Commission was a specific body with a set of duties, rules and procedures that is seperate from regular meetings. Joe Bonanno goes into this in more detail in his book.


Pogo

[TallGuy19]

The families seem to do what they want nowadays as opposed to 30 plus years ago. They don’t seem to have to ask permission to make guys they want made. Didn’t before you have to run it by the other families ?

I asked Gene Borello about this when we interviewed him awhile back, and he said the families still pass the lists around but that it's more of a formality at this point.

[Pogo The Clown]

Wasn't there an article a few years back that said the Colombos made some guys and didn't pass a list around? I seem to recall that.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Not really. The NY Bosses have been meeting to discuss business decades before the Commission was formed. The Commission was a specific body with a set of duties, rules and procedures that is seperate from regular meetings. Joe Bonanno goes into this in more detail in his book.

Dude, if representatives of the admins of the five families meet to discuss and decide LCN business isn't a Commission? There was never a Commission.

They missing a secretary to take notes?

But seriously, what is missing from the Massino restaurant meeting that voided it as a 'Commission meeting'?

[Wiseguy]

Not really. The NY Bosses have been meeting to discuss business decades before the Commission was formed. The Commission was a specific body with a set of duties, rules and procedures that is seperate from regular meetings. Joe Bonanno goes into this in more detail in his book.

Dude, if representatives of the admins of the five families meet to discuss and decide LCN business isn't a Commission? There was never a Commission.

They missing a secretary to take notes?

But seriously, what is missing from the Massino restaurant meeting that voided it as a 'Commission meeting'?

The Massino meeting was at Bonanno soldier Louis Restivo's house.

For the record, these are the duties alleged in the Commission case:

Promoting and carrying out joint ventures between and among LCN families to obtain money through illegal activities

Resolving actual and potential disputes among LCN families regarding the operation, conduct and control of illegal activities

Sharing information regarding government witnesses and potential or perceived government witnesses

Taking steps to preserve order in, between and among the LCN families, including authorizing acts of murder

Approving or disapproving the initiation of new members or soldiers in LCN families

Controlling relations between LCN and members of the "Sicilian Mafia," an enterprise distinct from LCN in the United States

Establishing certain rules governing the families, officers and members of LCN

Keeping persons inside and outside LCN in fear of LCN by identifying LCN with threats, violence and murder

Extending formal recognition to newly-elected bosses of LCN families, and, from time to time, resolving leadership disputes within LCN families

[newera_212]

But seriously, what is missing from the Massino restaurant meeting that voided it as a 'Commission meeting'?

I think they met at Louis Restivo's house in Rego Park, Queens (in 2000) and there were members of at least 4 of the 5 families there - if not all 5. I am not sure why Massino nor anyone else wouldn't consider this a Commission meeting... I am speculating, but I'm thinking that it has something to do with the fact that families sent Capos or Soliders as representatives - and that besides Massino, there wasn't a sitting Official Boss present for any of the families. Going off what the historical definition of The Commission was, from the time it was defined up until 1985 - a meeting of random Capos from all 5 families technically wouldn't be a "Commission" meeting

I believe it was at this 2000 Commission meeting that the Genovese said that Chin had a release date and would be getting out of prison some day, but that Gotti was never coming home - therefore it didn't make sense that Gotti still held the Official Boss title? Didn't that happen at one of these meetings?

[SonnyBlackstein]

The Massino meeting was at Bonanno soldier Louis Restivo's house.

For the record, these are the duties alleged in the Commission case:

Promoting and carrying out joint ventures between and among LCN families to obtain money through illegal activities

Resolving actual and potential disputes among LCN families regarding the operation, conduct and control of illegal activities

Sharing information regarding government witnesses and potential or perceived government witnesses

Taking steps to preserve order in, between and among the LCN families, including authorizing acts of murder

Approving or disapproving the initiation of new members or soldiers in LCN families

Controlling relations between LCN and members of the "Sicilian Mafia," an enterprise distinct from LCN in the United States

Establishing certain rules governing the families, officers and members of LCN

Keeping persons inside and outside LCN in fear of LCN by identifying LCN with threats, violence and murder

Extending formal recognition to newly-elected bosses of LCN families, and, from time to time, resolving leadership disputes within LCN families

Appreciate the info.

@pogo: which one of the above did the massino "commission" meeting was not fulfilled to nullify the meet from being a commission meeting to .... something else?

[Wiseguy]

But seriously, what is missing from the Massino restaurant meeting that voided it as a 'Commission meeting'?

I think they met at Louis Restivo's house in Rego Park, Queens (in 2000) and there were members of at least 4 of the 5 families there - if not all 5. I am not sure why Massino nor anyone else wouldn't consider this a Commission meeting... I am speculating, but I'm thinking that it has something to do with the fact that families sent Capos or Soliders as representatives - and that besides Massino, there wasn't a sitting Official Boss present for any of the families. Going off what the historical definition of The Commission was, from the time it was defined up until 1985 - a meeting of random Capos from all 5 families technically wouldn't be a "Commission" meeting

I believe it was at this 2000 Commission meeting that the Genovese said that Chin had a release date and would be getting out of prison some day, but that Gotti was never coming home - therefore it didn't make sense that Gotti still held the Official Boss title? Didn't that happen at one of these meetings?

The attendees were :

Bonanno boss Joseph Massino
Bonanno underboss Salvatore Vitale
Genovese captain Lawrence Dentico
Gambino acting boss Peter Gotti
Lucchese acting boss Louis Daidone
Colombo consigliere Joel Cacace.

I can't remember if the replacing Gotti issue came up at that meeting or another one where Nick Corozzo was present. I think it was at that one.

[johnny_scootch]

Wasn't there an article a few years back that said the Colombos made some guys and didn't pass a list around? I seem to recall that.


Pogo

Same thing with John Spirito Jr who apparently made some of his friends without passing a list. Eventually Joe Cammarano did retroactively pass a list of those he made to the other families.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I am speculating, but I'm thinking that it has something to do with the fact that families sent Capos or Soliders as representatives - and that besides Massino, there wasn't a sitting Official Boss present for any of the families. Going off what the historical definition of The Commission was, from the time it was defined up until 1985 - a meeting of random Capos from all 5 families technically wouldn't be a "Commission" meeting

"Louie Bagels, the boss of the Luchese family; Pete Gotti, the acting boss of the Gambino family; Joe Waverly, the consigliere of the Colombo family; Skinny Larry, he was a captain on the panel of the Genovese family; and me, the boss of the Bonanno family," Massino said.

1. So 1 boss, 2 acting bosses, 1 official UB, a consig and a member of the ruling panel, so five administration members of all five families, have a meeting, and its not a commission meeting?
What planet am I on?

2. "There ain't no commission," Massino said. "The last commission we had I was at in 1985 in November. When Paul Castellano got killed in December of 1985, there was never another commission meeting there."

Yet the 85 meet he was there and he wasnt an official boss, and that was a commission meeting.
Am I retarded? (Ryan?!?!)

[B.]

The Commission was a formal body. They could send representatives who weren't the official boss but it was still part of the formal Commission.

If bosses/reps met later and it wasn't part of the formal Commission body, it wasn't a Commission meeting like Massino said.

[SonnyBlackstein]

If bosses/reps met later and it wasn't part of the formal Commission body, it wasn't a Commission meeting like Massino said.

Gino's cafe.

[Wiseguy]

Wasn't there an article a few years back that said the Colombos made some guys and didn't pass a list around? I seem to recall that.


Pogo

Same thing with John Spirito Jr who apparently made some of his friends without passing a list. Eventually Joe Cammarano did retroactively pass a list of those he made to the other families.

If anything, that's more an example the other way. Not only did he not pass a list around, he didn't have authority to make them in the first place. The fact other families, or at least the Luccheses, made a stink suggests there is still some inter-family interest and accountability regarding who is made.

[B.]

Pennisi said the Lucchese admin required the Bonannos to make a list of the guys Spirito made so they could approve it after the fact and make it right.

We know NYC passed names around for approval as early as the 1910s and Buscetta said his name was passed around in Sicily in the 1940s, which makes me wonder about inductions like Valachi's, where it's unlikely the names were approved by the other Families and the leaders themselves weren't nationally recognized. The guys inducted in that ceremony were accepted as members after the war regardless but I'm curious if any formalities were followed after the fact.

[Pogo The Clown]

If bosses/reps met later and it wasn't part of the formal Commission body, it wasn't a Commission meeting like Massino said.

This. Like I said up too the NY Bosses, or their reps, were meeting to discuss business long before the Commission was formed in 1931.


Besides the Bonannos lost their seat in the 1960s and still didn't have one by the time Gravano flipped which coincides when Massino became Boss. So if the Commission was still functioning by 2000 they would have had to have reached out to Massino to inform him that he now had a seat on it. Obviously that never happened.


Pogo