Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

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JoeCamel
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by JoeCamel »

Honestly I think they have a good chance. Would have happened a long time ago if not for Covid, which probably saved their asses considering the rule 33 probably got a longer statute of limitations while pennisi and Pasqua talked their asses off for 2 years
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Dave65827
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by Dave65827 »

Madonnas buried asfk. They had him on tape shit talking Meldish in the lead up of the hit and the after call from londonio I don’t see him going anywhere


Crea I agree is a different story but I don’t see this going anywhere

I ain’t no legal lawyer or claim to have any extensive knowledge of the court system but I assume career criminals don’t have the easiest time winning appeals
TSNYC
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by TSNYC »

Little_Al1991 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 8:25 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 8:05 am Dominic Crea is an attorney who is Steven Creas biological son working on his father's case? Do I have it right?
I think he is a paralegal and yes he is Crea’s son.
He’s an insurance broker in Westchester
Little_Al1991
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by Little_Al1991 »

JoeCamel wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 8:46 pm Honestly I think they have a good chance. Would have happened a long time ago if not for Covid, which probably saved their asses considering the rule 33 probably got a longer statute of limitations while pennisi and Pasqua talked their asses off for 2 years
I just don’t see it happening because it’s clear that Madonna was the Acting Boss of the Lucchese Family and his previous records speaks for itself.He had previously spent 32 years in prison before going away again in 2017 though by that time he was in state custody on a gambling charge.
Crea is the Underboss of the family and his prior records speak for itself though the evidence against Crea isn’t exactly the strongest
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by nizarsoccer »

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by Tonyd621 »

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by nizarsoccer »

Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by Tonyd621 »

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
So why didn't they use that Pinkerton Liability for other Luccheses then?
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by nizarsoccer »

Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 9:02 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
So why didn't they use that Pinkerton Liability for other Luccheses then?
No idea. I guess there is limitations to it.
TommyGambino
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by TommyGambino »

Amazed they were even convicted, embarrassing justice system
funkster
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by funkster »

The inconsistencies with Pennisi's testimony makes this intriguing, they won't be getting a new trial based on his god story. Not sure why everyone is making a big deal about that whole thing, a lot of old school Italians are very superstitious. Im not one of the JP haters, but he does tell conflicting stories about the life pretty often. Talks about certain rules being followed to a T then in other videos specifically telling stories about the same rules being broken.
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by Wiseguy »

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 amTaken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
Works for me. That's essentially RICO anyway.
All roads lead to New York.
Little_Al1991
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by Little_Al1991 »

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
Joseph DiNapoli, the Consigliere at the time, was very fortunate not to be hit with the Meldish murder charge
Teflon Dom
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by Teflon Dom »

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
Basically had to stack the deck for themselves like when they created rico because the mob kept outsmarting them lol
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Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post by nizarsoccer »

Little_Al1991 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:12 pm
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
Joseph DiNapoli, the Consigliere at the time, was very fortunate not to be hit with the Meldish murder charge
Yeah I don't get why DiNapoli wasn't indicted too since he was part of the administration. Wouldn't the same logic applied to Crea apply to him too? Not sure.
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