Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

[JoeCamel]

Honestly I think they have a good chance. Would have happened a long time ago if not for Covid, which probably saved their asses considering the rule 33 probably got a longer statute of limitations while pennisi and Pasqua talked their asses off for 2 years

[Dave65827]

Madonnas buried asfk. They had him on tape shit talking Meldish in the lead up of the hit and the after call from londonio I don’t see him going anywhere


Crea I agree is a different story but I don’t see this going anywhere

I ain’t no legal lawyer or claim to have any extensive knowledge of the court system but I assume career criminals don’t have the easiest time winning appeals

[TSNYC]

Dominic Crea is an attorney who is Steven Creas biological son working on his father's case? Do I have it right?

I think he is a paralegal and yes he is Crea’s son.

He’s an insurance broker in Westchester

[Little_Al1991]

Honestly I think they have a good chance. Would have happened a long time ago if not for Covid, which probably saved their asses considering the rule 33 probably got a longer statute of limitations while pennisi and Pasqua talked their asses off for 2 years

I just don’t see it happening because it’s clear that Madonna was the Acting Boss of the Lucchese Family and his previous records speaks for itself.He had previously spent 32 years in prison before going away again in 2017 though by that time he was in state custody on a gambling charge.
Crea is the Underboss of the family and his prior records speak for itself though the evidence against Crea isn’t exactly the strongest

[nizarsoccer]

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.

[Tonyd621]

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.

What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?

[nizarsoccer]

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.

What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?

Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.

[Tonyd621]

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.

What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?

Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.

So why didn't they use that Pinkerton Liability for other Luccheses then?

[nizarsoccer]

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.

What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?

Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.

So why didn't they use that Pinkerton Liability for other Luccheses then?

No idea. I guess there is limitations to it.

[TommyGambino]

Amazed they were even convicted, embarrassing justice system

[funkster]

The inconsistencies with Pennisi's testimony makes this intriguing, they won't be getting a new trial based on his god story. Not sure why everyone is making a big deal about that whole thing, a lot of old school Italians are very superstitious. Im not one of the JP haters, but he does tell conflicting stories about the life pretty often. Talks about certain rules being followed to a T then in other videos specifically telling stories about the same rules being broken.

[Wiseguy]

Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.

Works for me. That's essentially RICO anyway.

[Little_Al1991]

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.

What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?

Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.

Joseph DiNapoli, the Consigliere at the time, was very fortunate not to be hit with the Meldish murder charge

[Teflon Dom]

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.

What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?

Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.

Basically had to stack the deck for themselves like when they created rico because the mob kept outsmarting them lol

[nizarsoccer]

They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.

What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?

Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.

Joseph DiNapoli, the Consigliere at the time, was very fortunate not to be hit with the Meldish murder charge

Yeah I don't get why DiNapoli wasn't indicted too since he was part of the administration. Wouldn't the same logic applied to Crea apply to him too? Not sure.