General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Patrickgold]

Ok then that solves that for me. I will not be listening to this one. Much respect to Scott and having unique people on tell their stories but this the 1% category of his show(s) that I will not listen to

What’s crazy is that Joey Seifert actually believes his story that Lombardo had nothing to do with his father’s murder

[Antiliar]

I watched the interview and noticed that too. Hadn't heard about his time with Franzese or Patriarca before, but it makes sense.

What do you and the other more astute chicago researchers think of this Miceli guy? He makes some bold claims on some fb group i was reading some material he posted. Is it worth listening to?
I mean I'm not saying he's lying. But he's like a woman who was sexually harassed in 2000 and makes a claim of it now because he's worth money now. Why hasn't he shared this info more broadly?

viewtopic.php?p=220762#p220762

I made a comment on this right before you did and now it's gone. Weird.

[PolackTony]

I watched the interview and noticed that too. Hadn't heard about his time with Franzese or Patriarca before, but it makes sense.

What do you and the other more astute chicago researchers think of this Miceli guy? He makes some bold claims on some fb group i was reading some material he posted. Is it worth listening to?
I mean I'm not saying he's lying. But he's like a woman who was sexually harassed in 2000 and makes a claim of it now because he's worth money now. Why hasn't he shared this info more broadly?

viewtopic.php?p=220762#p220762

I made a comment on this right before you did and now it's gone. Weird.

Miceli and the Graziano Crime Family have compromised the BHF servers.

[Antiliar]

Those damn Grazianos!

[Patrickgold]

I watched the interview and noticed that too. Hadn't heard about his time with Franzese or Patriarca before, but it makes sense.

What do you and the other more astute chicago researchers think of this Miceli guy? He makes some bold claims on some fb group i was reading some material he posted. Is it worth listening to?
I mean I'm not saying he's lying. But he's like a woman who was sexually harassed in 2000 and makes a claim of it now because he's worth money now. Why hasn't he shared this info more broadly?

viewtopic.php?p=220762#p220762

I made a comment on this right before you did and now it's gone. Weird.

I just listened to the podcast. Miceli knows how to talk. I will give him that. He gets into how he saved Victoria Gotti from a hit. Wish someone would ask him some of those tough questions about his claims

[PolackTony]

Ok then that solves that for me. I will not be listening to this one. Much respect to Scott and having unique people on tell their stories but this the 1% category of his show(s) that I will not listen to

What’s crazy is that Joey Seifert actually believes his story that Lombardo had nothing to do with his father’s murder

Either he does, or they’re both knowingly grifting together. Hard to say which.

When I listened to the interview that Miceli previously did with Joey Seifert, he actually came across as pretty sane and believable. Didn’t say that he was made, didn’t even say that his family were made, just associates. He said that LE doesn’t know some of the guys who have been major players in the Outfit (which is certainly possible), and cited the “Grazianos” as guys who were big players that had went under LE radar — he didn’t say that he was a made member of any “Graziano Crime Family” in Chicago, or that he was working for a combined Gambino/Colombo family in FL, or whatever other nonsense that he has tried to claim elsewhere. But he’s clearly a nut, or just so bad at being a grifter that he can’t keep his fables reasonably believable and has to spin tales like he was some kind of LCN James Bond/Forrest Gump. After being dismissed by the ATF as a bullshit artist he’s now either fooled Seifert or joined forces with him to push his fantasy life on to the public, presumably so they can generate podcast interest and sell books, etc.

[PolackTony]

I watched the interview and noticed that too. Hadn't heard about his time with Franzese or Patriarca before, but it makes sense.

What do you and the other more astute chicago researchers think of this Miceli guy? He makes some bold claims on some fb group i was reading some material he posted. Is it worth listening to?
I mean I'm not saying he's lying. But he's like a woman who was sexually harassed in 2000 and makes a claim of it now because he's worth money now. Why hasn't he shared this info more broadly?

viewtopic.php?p=220762#p220762

I made a comment on this right before you did and now it's gone. Weird.

I just listened to the podcast. Miceli knows how to talk. I will give him that. He gets into how he saved Victoria Gotti from a hit. Wish someone would ask him some of those tough questions about his claims

Juts listened to the podcast myself. Given the respect I have for Scott and Jimmy B, I wanted to hear for myself how Miceli and his claims were presented.

Again, when Miceli sticks to relatively low-level stuff, he comes across as reasonable. Were his father and uncle associates? Maybe, there were a lot of guys in Chicago who were connected to the Outfit. Was Miceli himself an associate of some sort? Sure, why not. Did he know Joe Lombardo since he was a kid? Very well could've, Lombardo was a very sociable and charismatic guy and a fixture in the Patch for decades, many people knew him and loved him.

Scott, to his credit, states that he is not endorsing Miceli's account of the Seifert hit. The issue that I have is that Scott also asserts that Miceli is worth listening to and taking seriously because he was a valuable witness in Federal investigations and cases. When I first looked into Miceli, that was my impression also, as early on the ATF vouched for his veracity. It's clear, however, that after this the ATF dumped him and disavowed his info, after what he was giving them didn't actually pan out (e.g., he claimed that he could lead them to bodies buried in the Western Suburbs, but nothing was ever discovered). Miceli and Scott both note that the Feds aren't always honest and above board when it comes to how they charge mob cases, which is true. And yes, there have been plenty of instances where the FBI has coddled and protected informants who remained active in OC, etc. While I'm formally agnostic on whether DiFronzo was actually an informant, the claim is both possible and plausible, and it very well could be the case that FS as it went down was partially compromised by the Feds protecting DiFronzo. But it doesn't follow that therefore the Feds have attacked and slandered Miceli because his account threatens to blow up FS or something. All that one has to do is look at the litany of risible claims from Miceli that Patrick relayed from Scott D to see that Miceli is not credible, regardless of whatever the Feds may or may not be hiding.

In regards to Charles Miceli, I just talked to Scott D about him. He has a file on him. He has Miceli’s three affidavits he made in 2000 trying to get witness protection in Tampa

This is straight from Scott D. Through those court filings Miceli alleges he is:
-cousin of Sam Giancana
-cousin of Vincent Gigante by marriage
-Cousin of John Gotti by marriage
-Made member of the Graziano family of Chicago
-A lieutenant in the Gambino/Profaci family
-that Vincent LoScaloz and strip club kingpin Joe Redner (who also ran for City Council a few times) contracted a hitman to take out Bob Buckhorn (former City councilman and mayor) because Buckhorn pushed for a lap dance ban in Tampa.

So obviously this guy is a bullshit artist. Probably is from a connected family in Chicago but is a conman. I wouldn’t believe anything he said after hearing this.

It's unclear to me also exactly how Miceli's claims about the Seifert hit threaten to upend the G's narrative. Miceli claims that Rick Madeja was present for the hit and that he knows this because A), an 8-year-old Miceli happened to be present outside of Seifert's office with his uncle Tommy when he heard the shotgun blasts and afterward saw his uncle speaking to Madeja, and B), Miceli heard more details about the hit later via some undisclosed avenue. But we know that multiple men were present for the hit, so even if Madeja was part of it it doesn't change the G's claim that Lombardo and Schweihs specifically were. Miceli himself even states on the podcase that he knows that Lombardo was present at the hit, but that Accardo, and not Lombardo, ordered it. Presumably, the order would've come from Aiuppa/Accardo anyway, so I'm not sure how this adds to anything or how any of what Miceli has claimed is supposed to exonerate Lombardo.

Scott, Jimmy, if you guys are reading this, what gives? I'm all for keeping an open mind and hearing people out. There are plenty of people out there who know things about the Outfit that we don't, so I don't cavalierly dismiss people like this. But I'd like to hear why Miceli came across as credible enough to warrant an appearance on the podcast. Maybe there's something I'm missing or that I'm not aware of?

[Patrickgold]

I watched the interview and noticed that too. Hadn't heard about his time with Franzese or Patriarca before, but it makes sense.

What do you and the other more astute chicago researchers think of this Miceli guy? He makes some bold claims on some fb group i was reading some material he posted. Is it worth listening to?
I mean I'm not saying he's lying. But he's like a woman who was sexually harassed in 2000 and makes a claim of it now because he's worth money now. Why hasn't he shared this info more broadly?

viewtopic.php?p=220762#p220762

I made a comment on this right before you did and now it's gone. Weird.

I just listened to the podcast. Miceli knows how to talk. I will give him that. He gets into how he saved Victoria Gotti from a hit. Wish someone would ask him some of those tough questions about his claims

Juts listened to the podcast myself. Given the respect I have for Scott and Jimmy B, I wanted to hear for myself how Miceli and his claims were presented.

Again, when Miceli sticks to relatively low-level stuff, he comes across as reasonable. Were his father and uncle associates? Maybe, there were a lot of guys in Chicago who were connected to the Outfit. Was Miceli himself an associate of some sort? Sure, why not. Did he know Joe Lombardo since he was a kid? Very well could've, Lombardo was a very sociable and charismatic guy and a fixture in the Patch for decades, many people knew him and loved him.

Scott, to his credit, states that he is not endorsing Miceli's account of the Seifert hit. The issue that I have is that Scott also asserts that Miceli is worth listening to and taking seriously because he was a valuable witness in Federal investigations and cases. When I first looked into Miceli, that was my impression also, as early on the ATF vouched for his veracity. It's clear, however, that after this the ATF dumped him and disavowed his info, after what he was giving them didn't actually pan out (e.g., he claimed that he could lead them to bodies buried in the Western Suburbs, but nothing was ever discovered). Miceli and Scott both note that the Feds aren't always honest and above board when it comes to how they charge mob cases, which is true. And yes, there have been plenty of instances where the FBI has coddled and protected informants who remained active in OC, etc. While I'm formally agnostic on whether DiFronzo was actually an informant, the claim is both possible and plausible, and it very well could be the case that FS as it went down was partially compromised by the Feds protecting DiFronzo. But it doesn't follow that therefore the Feds have attacked and slandered Miceli because his account threatens to blow up FS or something. All that one has to do is look at the litany of risible claims from Miceli that Patrick relayed from Scott D to see that Miceli is not credible, regardless of whatever the Feds may or may not be hiding.

In regards to Charles Miceli, I just talked to Scott D about him. He has a file on him. He has Miceli’s three affidavits he made in 2000 trying to get witness protection in Tampa

This is straight from Scott D. Through those court filings Miceli alleges he is:
-cousin of Sam Giancana
-cousin of Vincent Gigante by marriage
-Cousin of John Gotti by marriage
-Made member of the Graziano family of Chicago
-A lieutenant in the Gambino/Profaci family
-that Vincent LoScaloz and strip club kingpin Joe Redner (who also ran for City Council a few times) contracted a hitman to take out Bob Buckhorn (former City councilman and mayor) because Buckhorn pushed for a lap dance ban in Tampa.

So obviously this guy is a bullshit artist. Probably is from a connected family in Chicago but is a conman. I wouldn’t believe anything he said after hearing this.

It's unclear to me also exactly how Miceli's claims about the Seifert hit threaten to upend the G's narrative. Miceli claims that Rick Madeja was present for the hit and that he knows this because A), an 8-year-old Miceli happened to be present outside of Seifert's office with his uncle Tommy when he heard the shotgun blasts and afterward saw his uncle speaking to Madeja, and B), Miceli heard more details about the hit later via some undisclosed avenue. But we know that multiple men were present for the hit, so even if Madeja was part of it it doesn't change the G's claim that Lombardo and Schweihs specifically were. Miceli himself even states on the podcase that he knows that Lombardo was present at the hit, but that Accardo, and not Lombardo, ordered it. Presumably, the order would've come from Aiuppa/Accardo anyway, so I'm not sure how this adds to anything or how any of what Miceli has claimed is supposed to exonerate Lombardo.

Scott, Jimmy, if you guys are reading this, what gives? I'm all for keeping an open mind and hearing people out. There are plenty of people out there who know things about the Outfit that we don't, so I don't cavalierly dismiss people like this. But I'd like to hear why Miceli came across as credible enough to warrant an appearance on the podcast. Maybe there's something I'm missing or that I'm not aware of?

I wish Scott would ask him about some of his outlandish claims like being related to Gotti and all that other bullshit.

Also, did you hear Scott say something about Jack Tacco Possibly being a FBI informant and the FBI would always deny it. I wasn’t sure if he was just giving a example or if there has been talk that he was? I wonder if Scott can please clarify that statement bc if there is talk of it then that is huge. He did get off very light in his racketeering conviction, kind of the same situation as Difronzo.

[PolackTony]

Excellent compilation of local news coverage of Operations GambAt and Greylord:

https://youtu.be/a58lTkRqBF8

Some great clips and photos here.

[Ninored]

Was there ever large time heroin dealers like John Gambino or the Pizza Connection group, or was it deal and die within the outfit

[PolackTony]

Was there ever large time heroin dealers like John Gambino or the Pizza Connection group, or was it deal and die within the outfit

During the same time that the Pizza Connection stuff was going on there were crews of guys from all four major Italian mafia groups of the era — Cosa Nostra, Sacra Corona Unità, Nuova Camorra Organizzata, and the ‘Ndrangheta — moving large volumes of drugs under Chicago, who were collecting street taxes from it. Rockford also had Sicilian zips running drugs at that time. The Pizza Connection had a direct link to Northern Illinois with Pietro Alfano, though it’s unclear what, if any connection they had to the local mafia in either Chicago or Rockford. Worth keeping in mind there that the boss of Cinisi who preceded Tano Badalamenti, Cesare Manzella, lived in Chicago before he fled around the same time that several of his paesani were killed in the Chicagoland area surrounding an apparent conflict over control of the Chicago family.

Over the years there have been a number of narcotics operations involving Chicago, which have been detailed in a number of threads in this forum. Antiliar just now has been working on a drug ring that linked to the Tampa, KC, and Chicago families in the 1940s to French suppliers via Cuba. During the same period, former Chicago Heights capo Domenico Ruberto, who had been deported back to Calabria, supposedly was the point man for an operation where narcotics were trafficked to the Heights and from there distributed to other Midwest families. The poster Villain has touched in other Chicago drug operations that were tied to the Genovese, Lucchese, and Detroit families. In the 50s/60s, Chinatown guys like Jimmy Cordovano and the DiCaro brother were involved in narcotics trafficking, while author Ovid Demaris claimed that Teets Battaglia, a powerful capo, was Chicago’s overseer in the narcotics racket. For years, guys like Americo DiPietto, Rocky Infelise, and Frank Rappa were trafficking narcotics, while in the 80s several local drug rings were operating either with or independently of the zip operations that I mentioned above.

“Deal or die” was selectively applied, depending on the era and who you were. In pretty much every decade one can find prominent examples of guys “breaking” this “rule”, but in most cases you won’t see made guys themselves actively
Involved in the operation of drugs. The real rule was “get caught, or otherwise fuck up, and die”, but even that was selectively applied. Jimmy Cordovano, for example, was involved in drug operations both before and after he was made. Didn’t seem to cause him any issue when it came to getting straightened out.

[Coloboy]

Excellent compilation of local news coverage of Operations GambAt and Greylord:

https://youtu.be/a58lTkRqBF8

Some great clips and photos here.

Great stuff.

Jesus Christ, look at that limo that accardo pulls up in at the wedding. Wasn’t this supposed to be the “laying low” days Lol

[funkster]

Ok, now I've gotta listen to this podcast lol

[Patrickgold]

Maybe this was talked about before but there were some Italian gangs that were not as notorious as the c-notes and 12th st players but we’re still a force in the 80s and 90s. I was looking at the CCC gang book from 1995 and they have the Italian Playboys listed as being active in:

Addison, Bloomingdale, Des Plaines, Elk Grove Village, Franklin Park, Itasca, Lombard, River Grove, and Roselle.

They were the biggest of the non alliance gang and were active in the most cities. There colors were red, green and white and initials were IPB. They were obviously a big deal in the 80s and 90s, mostly in the western suburbs and the Dunning and Montclair area of Chicago. In the early 2000s they started to disperse. I remember when I was a teenager hearing about them getting shot up by some MLDs in the 90s in Addison. Does anyone know of any Outfit guys that were a IPB? I met some that had family in the Outfit but they were not.

Another mostly Italian gang was called the Boys in the Hood Gang. They were mostly active in Elmwood Park. Their colors were gray and black or light blue. Initials were BH and they were supposedly apart of the peoples alliance. They were mostly into burglaries from what I remember.

Just wondering if anyone remembers these gangs and have any info. They kind died out in the early 2000s

[Antiliar]

An early Outfit informant who placed a lot of members in the wrong crews called the crew capos "capitanos." I wonder if this term was actually used and if so, how common was it?

https://archive.org/details/sambattagli ... =Fillichio

https://archive.org/details/1196496-0-9 ... =Fillichio