General Mob Questions

[antimafia]

Do we have a 'definitive' list of Bonnano members in Canada? Current and 90's (ie not 50's, something relevant to today)?

Certainly not today. This has come up before and nobody can positively name a single Bonanno member still living in Montreal. It seems they've all died one way or another. Even those put forth as "possible members" are a handful.

I revisited my list from the post I made almost a year ago today -- see viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1630&p=188907&hili ... io#p188907 for a possible list of Montreal Bonannos who I think might have been in attendance when Sal Vitale travelled to Montreal twice after Gerlando Sciascia was killed in March 1998 -- and I am now guessing that the individuals still alive in Quebec who were inducted into the Bonanno Family are Francesco Arcadi, Tony Van(n)elli, Tony Mucci, and Antonio Pietrantonio.

If we knew who replaced the made Bonanno member Romeo Bucci who died in 1997, this replacement -- if still alive -- would be a fifth Bonanno in Montreal. Note that I made an error in my post from last year, as "10. Romeo Bucci" should have been typed as 10. (replacement of the Romeo Bucci who died in 1997).

Pierre de Champlain† (buonanima) cast strong doubt here on the forum when I first expressed my belief that Frank Cotroni Jr., who is still alive, was ever made. Mr. de Champlain was probably correct, and I was likely wrong, as the author of Milena Di Maulo : fille et femme de mafiosi herself does not know if and when Cotroni Jr. was made, only that Franky's criminal career started at the age of 17.

In the last 19 years, there have been three individuals in the Montreal underworld who have admitted "mafia membership" or, in the case of the third individual, insinuated they had such membership: Emanuele Ragusa (died of natural causes), Francesco Del Balso, and Andrea Scoppa (murdered). Not a single one of them self-identified as a made Bonanno, and there are strong reasons to believe that neither Del Balso nor Scoppa was a man of honour in any secret society.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Do we have a 'definitive' list of Bonnano members in Canada? Current and 90's (ie not 50's, something relevant to today)?

Certainly not today. This has come up before and nobody can positively name a single Bonanno member still living in Montreal. It seems they've all died one way or another. Even those put forth as "possible members" are a handful.

It would seem... unlikely, one would assume, that the Bonnano's would let the Montreal decina wither to extinction.

[SonnyBlackstein]

and I am now guessing that the individuals still alive in Quebec who were inducted into the Bonanno Family are Francesco Arcadi, Tony Van(n)elli, Tony Mucci, and Antonio Pietrantonio.

You would not assume no ceremonies have been conducted to replace deceased members?

[OcSleeper]

This article says Giordano was inducted at the beginning of 2004. I know there's another article out there (possible by Renaud) that goes into more detail about it. IIRC it was the night before Vito was arrested. Unfortunately I don't have it saved and am unable to find it right now. Maybe someone else knows the one I'm talking about.

So if true Giordano would've been the last known Montreal induction and probably the only one we have a specific date for.
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/just ... rrains.php

[antimafia]

^^^^
Giordano wasn’t “inducted” the same day that Paolo Gervasi was murdered, i.e., January 19, 2004. If Giordano had been “inducted” into the Bonanno Family as a result of the murder of presumed made Bonanno member Gervasi, the Bonanno Family would have seriously violated its own protocol: no making of new members to replace murdered made members.

Francesco Del Balso was Giordano’s underling. Del Balso’s admission of “mafia membership” (quotation marks are for effect) came many years after Giordano’s “induction,” which leads us to wonder how many other “inductions” in Quebec have taken place since Vito’s arrest on January 20, 2004.

Humphreys and Lamothe listened to hundreds of hours of tapes when doing research while writing what would become the first edition of The Sixth Family (2006). If anyone is nice to Humphreys and candidly asks him about the most controversial content of the book, he’ll candidly tell you that it became evident to him and Lamothe after listening to, again, hundreds of hours of tapes, that the Rizzuto organization was “inducting” guys into its own crime “family.” The authors have never written or said that the Montreal Mafia became a separate LCN or CN entity.

If anyone is nice to Lamothe and candidly asks him about the most controversial content of the book, make sure to wear a diaper when you do, regardless of whether you’re talking with him over the phone or communicating with him by email. You’ll be sure to soil yourself.

Here’s the relevant content about Giordano’s “induction” — excerpt is from Daniel Renaud’s 2015 book:

En mars 2005, Lorenzo Giordano serait un « homme d’honneur » depuis environ un an, selon ce qu’une source digne de foi a confié à la police. Il aurait obtenu cette promotion mafieuse à la suite du meurtre du chef de clan Paolo Gervasi, commis le 19 janvier 2004, la veille de l’arrestation de Vito Rizzuto. Après cet assassinat, Giordano et Del Balso auraient hérité de tout le volet des paris sportifs de la mafia, qui aurait autrefois appartenu à Gervasi. À une certaine époque, cette nomination était bénie par la mafia de New York au cours d’une cérémonie initiatique. Mais les relations entre les clans Bonanno et Rizzuto se sont détériorées à la suite du meurtre, en 1999, du mafioso Gerlando Sciascia, alias « George le Canadien », qui faisait le pont entre les deux familles. Les circonstances exactes dans lesquelles Giordano aurait obtenu son titre d’homme d’honneur ne sont pas connues, mais, selon certaines informations, cela aurait été fait dans une résidence privée de la région de Montréal.

En 2005, Giordano tient effectivement les propos d’un homme d’honneur et n’est pas tendre envers le clan Bonanno, dont des membres influents ont retourné leur veste et envoyé Vito Rizzuto en prison….

[B.]

I have nothing but respect for the Sixth Family authors -- the book is a resource and wealth of research.

I'm curious what specifically was said on the recordings that gave them the impression the group was operating as an independent organization and whether there was indication they inducted anyone in significant numbers. We do know the Cotroni and then Sicilian-led Montreal crew had a high degree of autonomy already. Were the contents of these tapes or summaries published in the book? I don't remember seeing that and it would be vital evidence if the information gave them that impression.

The book does use hyperbole with their Sixth Family idea, referring to them definitively as the "Sixth Family" throughout the book and in my opinion stretching some of the published evidence used to support this, becoming the dominant narrative in the process. I also understand books on the mafia are unlikely to be published or receive much attention without some hyperbole as a selling point, so I don't blame the authors but I also couldn't buy into it entirely based on what's publicly available.

I might well contact Lamothe and respectfully ask for details because it's hard to judge without knowing specifically what was said on the recordings.

Thanks Antimafia.

[Wiseguy]

Do we have a 'definitive' list of Bonnano members in Canada? Current and 90's (ie not 50's, something relevant to today)?

Certainly not today. This has come up before and nobody can positively name a single Bonanno member still living in Montreal. It seems they've all died one way or another. Even those put forth as "possible members" are a handful.

It would seem... unlikely, one would assume, that the Bonnano's would let the Montreal decina wither to extinction.

Considering the general contraction in the scope of the Mafia's footprint in the U.S., to say nothing of other countries, it doesn't seem to me to be unlikely at all. In fact, it's what I would expect. The Bonannos having a functioning crew in Montreal today seems as implausible as Philadelphia having one in Boston. In my opinion, the days of having real satellite crews are over. The Genovese crew in Springfield appears to be finished. There's no crew based in Connecticut. I'm not convinced there are any based in Florida at this point. This is the general trend of things, not the other way around.

The Rizzuto organization was already operating largely autonomously for years. There seems to be several events that led to the final dissolution between them and the Bonanno family - the Sciascia murder in 1999, Massino flipping in 2004, Montagna aligning himself with Rizzuto rivals in 2009, the murders of most (if not all) Bonanno members in Montreal after Project Colisee, etc. Any remaining connections appear to be on an operational level rather than an organizational one.

[Ivan]

Who is the earliest known American Cosa Nostra leader? Some people on another forum are saying Charles Matranga but I'm almost positive there are others who predate him that we know about.

[Ivan]

Who is the earliest known American Cosa Nostra leader? Some people on another forum are saying Charles Matranga but I'm almost positive there are others who predate him that we know about.

Come on, surely someone knows? I need to know so I can totally own some people on Twitter.

[motorfab]

Who is the earliest known American Cosa Nostra leader? Some people on another forum are saying Charles Matranga but I'm almost positive there are others who predate him that we know about.

Come on, surely someone knows? I need to know so I can totally own some people on Twitter.

Maybe Nicola Taranto arrested in 1876 for money counterfeiting ? He was described by the press and authorties by the head of the mafia (I wanted to answer this earlier but I was quite busy)

[Ivan]

Who is the earliest known American Cosa Nostra leader? Some people on another forum are saying Charles Matranga but I'm almost positive there are others who predate him that we know about.

Come on, surely someone knows? I need to know so I can totally own some people on Twitter.

Maybe Nicola Taranto arrested in 1876 for money counterfeiting ? He was described by the press and authorties by the head of the mafia (I wanted to answer this earlier but I was quite busy)

Thanks. Very early Gambino boss, right? I thought he wasn't in the country before 1888?

[motorfab]

Who is the earliest known American Cosa Nostra leader? Some people on another forum are saying Charles Matranga but I'm almost positive there are others who predate him that we know about.

Come on, surely someone knows? I need to know so I can totally own some people on Twitter.

Maybe Nicola Taranto arrested in 1876 for money counterfeiting ? He was described by the press and authorties by the head of the mafia (I wanted to answer this earlier but I was quite busy)

Thanks. Very early Gambino boss, right? I thought he wasn't in the country before 1888?

Ah maybe I confused the dates, it was probably 1896 now you mentionned it, my bad

[Antiliar]

Who is the earliest known American Cosa Nostra leader? Some people on another forum are saying Charles Matranga but I'm almost positive there are others who predate him that we know about.

We don't *know* if Charles Matranga was actually a boss. It's just speculation. In San Francisco, Rosario Meli led a group that was called Maffia in 1878/1879, he's probably the earliest that we can confirm as a boss.

[Ivan]

Who is the earliest known American Cosa Nostra leader? Some people on another forum are saying Charles Matranga but I'm almost positive there are others who predate him that we know about.

We don't *know* if Charles Matranga was actually a boss. It's just speculation. In San Francisco, Rosario Meli led a group that was called Maffia in 1878/1879, he's probably the earliest that we can confirm as a boss.

Great, thanks.

I'm starting to get interested in this really ancient history (pre-1900 or even pre-1890) and I'm really really grateful for you, Chris Christie, B., and all the others who know what's known about it.

[Shellackhead]

Anyone here has any info on Fabrizio DeFrancisci, his release date?