Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:33 am
So why doesn't he share these pleading findings? If they are part of the docket, I wouldn't think they'd be sealed
He says they are already posted via pacer whatever that is. Case number is 02 CR 1050. He said some are on the family secret secrets page on FB
I signed back in just to read some of these motions and a couple seemed far-fetched. He's claiming that Joey Lombardo wasn't even active in the Chicago mob during the Albergo and Seifert homicides? Give me a break. He also mentions James Marcello "wouldn't even make a pimple on a bosses rear end." A far cry from Joe Vento being caught on tape speaking about Marcello: "You fuckin' better believe he's somebody."
This guy also claimed that Joe Lombardo came to his defense when John DiFronzo sent some guys to collect on a 25 dollar(!) debt so I cannot believe that he would be an unbiased source. My guess is that Lombardo helped him out with something or got him out of a jam and he wanted to testify on his behalf.
He also claims to have witnessed Daniel Seifert's hit (at 7 years old!) and that he buried Michael Albergo's remains in 1986.
All this does not lend him credence in my eyes, regardless of how Joey Seifert feels. I don't see anything in there proving DiFronzo was a cooperator, either.
Wow…. Sounds like some real bombshell revelations, if that’s what his evidence amounts to. Thanks for logging into Pacer and looking into it.
On the Seifert podcast he claimed that Lombardo was his godfather and also defended his mother when his estranged father was threatening her.
I actually read them on his Facebook page.
The story about Lombardo coming to his defense tied into the 25 dollar debt story. I guess his old man owed DiFronzo 25 dollars so he sent some guys over to collect and they were threatening he and his mother. He said Lombardo intervened.
The guy seemed solid on Seifert's podcast, but that other stuff sounds like he was making things up to help Lombardo. Carl Giancana AKA Carl Manno looks like he's seen better days too. Regarding the Danny Seifert murder, it's certainly believable that Lombardo tried to shield the kids from seeing their father being killed. It's also believable that Lombardo is the one who went to Aiuppa and Accardo for approval on the hit, after all, Lombardo had the most to lose if Seifert testified.
I agree that he sounded solid on the podcast. I’m willing to believe that he’s from a connected family and that his family knew Lombardo etc. He also may indeed know quite a bit about mob activities in Chicago and FL. Problem is, given the obvious BS stuff he’s claiming about FS, hard to tell where he’s being solid and where he’s BSing about other stuff. He claims that Lombardo wasn’t even active at the time of the Seifert hit but then on the podcast claims that Lombardo was a consig/UB. It’s one thing to attempt to cover for Lombardo in the 2000s, that I can understand if he was trying to help him out. But to double down and continue to push this stuff as the undercover history of the Outfit in 2022 is a different story. Maybe he’s on a personal quest for whatever reason to clear Lombardo’s name, who knows. Maybe he’s full of shit but a good enough con man that he conned Joey Seifert into buying his story. Or maybe both of them are pushing this stuff to promote their books/podcasts.
Anyone know about this Frank Graziano who he claims was a major player? He also says his father Chuck Miceli, Sr and uncle Tom Miceli were associates but never made (at least he’s making an effort to demarcate membership status). He says his stepfather Jimmy was also an associate and son of a Jack Pape who he claims went back to the Capone days on the podcast. Don’t know if he was related to the other Papes (eg Frank Pape), but there was a Jack Pape born in 1917 to parents from Palermo province (probably Cefalu).
I note that in 1954, Jack Pape was arrested as the apparent leader of a crew that had committed dozens of robberies. He lived by North Ave and Tripp in West Humboldt Park. 1954 was a busy year for Papes in Chicago, as this was also when brothers Tony and James Pape, part of a major drug trafficking ring including Joe Iacullo and William DiGiovanni, were killed.
EDIT: For the record, doesn't seem like Jack pape was related to the Pape Bros. Jack Pape's father Giuseppe Pape was from Palermo per his death record, whereas the Pape Bros' father Vincenzo Pepe (original spelling) was from Atena Lucana, Salerno province.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Chuckie Miceli it seems is Charles N Miceli and his father was Charles T Miceli, who died in 1998. No mention of Charles T Miceli that I can find in the Tribune in connection to any Outfit- or criminal-related activities, so if he was an associate he did a great job at keeping his head down.
Looks like the ATF later reversed their assessment of Miceli's info:
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Speaking of credibility (or lack thereof), does anyone remember the Chuck Bonnano (his spelling) that claimed to be a bastard son of Joe Bonanno? He had tons of people believing his bullshit on Facebook lol
Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:26 pm
Speaking of credibility (or lack thereof), does anyone remember the Chuck Bonnano (his spelling) that claimed to be a bastard son of Joe Bonanno? He had tons of people believing his bullshit on Facebook lol
I believe on the podcast Chuckie Miceli also claimed to be related to Giancana somehow.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:04 pm
Would be cool to see what Antiliar’s Cicero source’s take on Chuckie Miceli is.
My source, like other people involved in organized crime, read books on the topic and are sometimes gullible and naïve when they listen to people who were associates before their time, had family connections, or were on the periphery. So unfortunately he believes this guy's stories because he doesn't know any better.
It reminds me of Red Wemette and Frank Cullotta retelling the story of how Mad Sam DeStefano killed Action Jackson on a meat hook. Except we have transcripts of a bug in Florida of Fifi Buccieri and Turk Torello boasting of how they killed him to Jack Cerone. Jackson sometimes collected for Mad Sam, but he was mostly a collector for Parr Loan Company, which was run by Sam Louis. Sam Louis was a made guy close to Ricca, and word had gotten out that he was a stool pigeon (thanks to Bill Roemer). There's nothing in the transcript that suggests DeStefano had anything to do with killing Jackson.
Changing the topic, are we sure that Willie Potatoes was a capo? Louis Bombacino told the FBI that he was in charge of McHenry, Kane and DuPage counties, and from that they concluded he was a caporegime. Yet he appears to have had only two made guys under him: Patsy Clementi and Joe Amato. Every confirmed caporegime had a decent sized crew of made guys under them, not a mere two. This seems closer to Frank Calabrese Sr having his made brother under him with the rest being associates. Plus, Bombacino wasn't always reliable, as Ed previously noted.
Antiliar wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:04 pm
Changing the topic, are we sure that Willie Potatoes was a capo? Louis Bombacino told the FBI that he was in charge of McHenry, Kane and DuPage counties, and from that they concluded he was a caporegime. Yet he appears to have had only two made guys under him: Patsy Clementi and Joe Amato. Every confirmed caporegime had a decent sized crew of made guys under them, not a mere two. This seems closer to Frank Calabrese Sr having his made brother under him with the rest being associates. Plus, Bombacino wasn't always reliable, as Ed previously noted.
He sponsored Ferriola in '56, so that's one point in his favor.
Antiliar wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:04 pm
Changing the topic, are we sure that Willie Potatoes was a capo? Louis Bombacino told the FBI that he was in charge of McHenry, Kane and DuPage counties, and from that they concluded he was a caporegime. Yet he appears to have had only two made guys under him: Patsy Clementi and Joe Amato. Every confirmed caporegime had a decent sized crew of made guys under them, not a mere two. This seems closer to Frank Calabrese Sr having his made brother under him with the rest being associates. Plus, Bombacino wasn't always reliable, as Ed previously noted.
He sponsored Ferriola in '56, so that's one point in his favor.
Ferriola was sponsored by both Daddono and Buccieri, right? If that were the case, maybe he had Buccieri because Daddono wasn’t a capo. I’m not arguing that he wasn’t, but Antiliar raises a good point and I’ve wondered about this myself. In one document where the FBI had Daddono as a caporegime they also had Les Kruse as another “caporegime” even though right below this they noted that Kruse couldn’t even be made, of course. If their criteria was that the guy was in charge of a territory then that would explain having Kruse as a “capo” in that document.
Daddono’s rank begs the question of Amato’s rank. Do we have anything more firm regarding Amato being a capo beyond the fact that he succeeded Daddono as the guy in charge of his territory?
It’s not out of the question that Daddono could’ve been to Buccieri or Giancana before him what Amabile or Pranno was to Battaglia.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Antiliar wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:04 pm
Changing the topic, are we sure that Willie Potatoes was a capo? Louis Bombacino told the FBI that he was in charge of McHenry, Kane and DuPage counties, and from that they concluded he was a caporegime. Yet he appears to have had only two made guys under him: Patsy Clementi and Joe Amato. Every confirmed caporegime had a decent sized crew of made guys under them, not a mere two. This seems closer to Frank Calabrese Sr having his made brother under him with the rest being associates. Plus, Bombacino wasn't always reliable, as Ed previously noted.
He sponsored Ferriola in '56, so that's one point in his favor.
Ferriola was sponsored by both Daddono and Buccieri, right? If that were the case, maybe he had Buccieri because Daddono wasn’t a capo. I’m not arguing that he wasn’t, but Antiliar raises a good point and I’ve wondered about this myself. In one document where the FBI had Daddono as a caporegime they also had Les Kruse as another “caporegime” even though right below this they noted that Kruse couldn’t even be made, of course. If their criteria was that the guy was in charge of a territory then that would explain having Kruse as a “capo” in that document.
Daddono’s rank begs the question of Amato’s rank. Do we have anything more firm regarding Amato being a capo beyond the fact that he succeeded Daddono as the guy in charge of his territory?
It’s not out of the question that Daddono could’ve been to Buccieri or Giancana before him what Amabile or Pranno was to Battaglia.
Nah, he was sponsored by Daddano and later transferred to Buccieri when Daddano blamed him for a game getting raided. Buccieri sponsored Tony Pine Eldorado.
I can see them having the position of capo and only having a few made guys under them, especially for a territory that large. A few informants mentioned him being a candidate for boss and being a powerful guy, but I also think it's plausible that he was subordinated to Battaglia.
Last edited by Snakes on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Antiliar wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:04 pm
Changing the topic, are we sure that Willie Potatoes was a capo? Louis Bombacino told the FBI that he was in charge of McHenry, Kane and DuPage counties, and from that they concluded he was a caporegime. Yet he appears to have had only two made guys under him: Patsy Clementi and Joe Amato. Every confirmed caporegime had a decent sized crew of made guys under them, not a mere two. This seems closer to Frank Calabrese Sr having his made brother under him with the rest being associates. Plus, Bombacino wasn't always reliable, as Ed previously noted.
He sponsored Ferriola in '56, so that's one point in his favor.
Ferriola was sponsored by both Daddono and Buccieri, right? If that were the case, maybe he had Buccieri because Daddono wasn’t a capo. I’m not arguing that he wasn’t, but Antiliar raises a good point and I’ve wondered about this myself. In one document where the FBI had Daddono as a caporegime they also had Les Kruse as another “caporegime” even though right below this they noted that Kruse couldn’t even be made, of course. If their criteria was that the guy was in charge of a territory then that would explain having Kruse as a “capo” in that document.
Daddono’s rank begs the question of Amato’s rank. Do we have anything more firm regarding Amato being a capo beyond the fact that he succeeded Daddono as the guy in charge of his territory?
It’s not out of the question that Daddono could’ve been to Buccieri or Giancana before him what Amabile or Pranno was to Battaglia.
Nah, he was sponsored by Daddano and later transferred to Buccieri when Daddano blamed him for a game getting raided. Buccieri sponsored Tony Pine Eldorado.
I could’ve sworn that there was a document I read where a CI (maybe DeRose?) claimed that Tony Pine was sponsored by both Buccieri and Daddono? Maybe I’m fuzzy on it, I’ll see if I can dig it up.
EDIT: This is the statement from DeRose (I believe). I guess it could be a wording issue, but I read it as stating that both Ferriola and ElDorado were sponsored by both Buccieri and Daddono. Is there an actual member source that says otherwise?
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Daddono wasn't a capo, I'm just looking for supporting evidence beyond what a few associates told the FBI. We've seen how there seems to be no evidence that Rocco Potenzo was a capo, and the FBI had conflicting claims about Jimmy Catuara being a capo as far back as the 1960s - not to mention which crew he was with.
Antiliar wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:33 pm
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Daddono wasn't a capo, I'm just looking for supporting evidence beyond what a few associates told the FBI. We've seen how there seems to be no evidence that Rocco Potenzo was a capo, and the FBI had conflicting claims about Jimmy Catuara being a capo as far back as the 1960s - not to mention which crew he was with.
It’s worth questioning these things. Although my belief is that he was a capo, and that Amato was after him, it’s valuable to actually clearly lay out the evidence that’s available here and assess it. Another one I wonder about was Gaetano Morgano, and whether NW IN was an actual crew or just a group of guys under the Heights back in the day. I don’t remember the source, but I recall that there was also someone who labeled Angelini as a capo. We know other families did have guys who had the rank without having a real crew under them, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that it happened a couple of times in Chicago.
Another great source of info were CIs from other families like Maniaci and Bompensiero, who were able to explicitly ID LaPorte, Pinelli, Alderisio, and De George as current or former Chicago capos.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Roemer and the Chicago Crime Commission labeled Angelini's partner Dominic Cortina as the Cicero crew capo. May have seen Angelini as a capo but can't recall the source.
Regarding Pinelli, if he was a capo anywhere it seems that it had to be in Lake County, IN. If this is correct, it implies an answer to your Morgano question.
