Why were the other families afraid of the Genovese?

[Wiseguy]

The Genovese also probably have the most unsolved hits, considering they have the least amount of members flipped, which makes them appear the most non-violent to outsiders like us. They're the second biggest family in terms of numbers, so I'm sure they always had a substantial amount of killers.

Back in the early 2000's, Longo was recorded saying "We got thirty, forty guys." The context of the conversation suggested he was talking about shooters or guys capable of murder. I don't think he necessarily did a poll or anything but it seems to suggest he felt they had plenty of them.

[PolackTony]

Presumably for a Chicago/Genovese war they would meet exactly halfway in Youngstown. Picture Tony Spilotro on the frontlines in full mustachioed glory while the German gets the drop on the Genovese from behind enemy lines while dressed in drag.

Next Seth Rogen/Johah Hill movie.

Tony Pineapples Express.

[B.]

Keep in mind a lot of the men recruited by Masseria proved themselves purely as violent criminals and though some relatives of members were inducted, the organizaton was built much differently from the others. There were much stronger familial/social links between members of other Families (both within a given Family and between them) while the Genovese were built on business and street relationships almost exclusively. It's not that family and friends in the mafia don't kill each other, but those factors do create more politics and thus opportunities for mediation while the Genovese had fewer of those ties.

Even though the other Families have come to resemble that model in some ways over the years, it wasn't their foundation. Historically an underworld trial in the Genovese Family didn't involve politics like whose brother, brother-in-law, father, son, paesani, etc. it was on trial and had fewer people willing/able to bargain for them. If someone committed an infraction, the politics were relatively simple: does he deserve to die or not. If this is how they ran things internally, you can imagine how it worked externally (not that they had the "right" to impact other Families' in that way, though). The Genovese aren't necessarily senseless brutes either -- their violence is very methodical and strategic which is interesting and in many ways more intimidating.

There is a much colder philosophy to the Genovese that comes from the way they developed early on. Not an exact science, but I don't think this can be ignored.

"We don't break our captains, we kill them" wasn't just a cute phrase from Gigante -- there is a history of demotion = death among the captain ranks that isn't as common in other Families.

[B.]

You can see where Valachi's marital ties to the Reinas probably saved his life. Tom Gagliano and Tommy Lucchese both spoke to the Genovese leaders on his behalf more than once. I'm of the opinion Joe Valachi would have been murdered earlier on based on some of the mistakes he made but Tom Gagliano personally cautioned the Genovese Family not to mess with him. Despite being a Neapolitan street criminal, his marriage into an esteemed mafia clan from Corleone created political factors beyond the Genovese Family alone. Those factors were a fact of life in other Families but not the Genovese.

[PolackTony]

Keep in mind a lot of the men recruited by Masseria proved themselves purely as violent criminals and though some relatives of members were inducted, the organizaton was built much differently from the others. There were much stronger familial/social links between members of other Families (both within a given Family and between them) while the Genovese were built on business and street relationships almost exclusively. It's not that family and friends in the mafia don't kill each other, but those factors do create more politics and thus opportunities for mediation while the Genovese had fewer of those ties.

Even though the other Families have come to resemble that model in some ways over the years, it wasn't their foundation. Historically an underworld trial in the Genovese Family didn't involve politics like whose brother, brother-in-law, father, son, paesani, etc. it was on trial and had fewer people willing/able to bargain for them. If someone committed an infraction, the politics were relatively simple: does he deserve to die or not. If this is how they ran things internally, you can imagine how it worked externally (not that they had the "right" to impact other Families' in that way, though). The Genovese aren't necessarily senseless brutes either -- their violence is very methodical and strategic which is interesting and in many ways more intimidating.

There is a much colder philosophy to the Genovese that comes from the way they developed early on. Not an exact science, but I don't think this can be ignored.

"We don't break our captains, we kill them" wasn't just a cute phrase from Gigante -- there is a history of demotion = death among the captain ranks that isn't as common in other Families.

This is definitely another strong parallel between them and Chicago, of course. Good discussion of an important factor here.

[newera_212]

Probably not as much now as was back in the day, but I'm guessing it's because they probably have the most amount of people, some unknown or maybe even most unknown to a lot of people in the other families, to kill with no fanfare, drama, or anything like that... and get away with it. Guys who would successfully just get the job done like it was nothing when someone did something that warrants death (in their eyes). Even if they have the aura of being the old, smart, level headed and professional type of guys who make money and stay quiet... they still have to have a good number of guys who are just as good at the "other" darker side of LCN when it comes time to bring that out.

With that said it makes me wonder if the D'Urso hit attempt was really sanctioned or OK'ed by any of the higher ups. There were no made guys (at the time anyway) tied to that at all. The murders of actual made members, in modern times are still unsolved basically, right?

[Wiseguy]

Probably not as much now as was back in the day, but I'm guessing it's because they probably have the most amount of people, some unknown or maybe even most unknown to a lot of people in the other families, to kill with no fanfare, drama, or anything like that... and get away with it. Guys who would successfully just get the job done like it was nothing when someone did something that warrants death (in their eyes). Even if they have the aura of being the old, smart, level headed and professional type of guys who make money and stay quiet... they still have to have a good number of guys who are just as good at the "other" darker side of LCN when it comes time to bring that out.

With that said it makes me wonder if the D'Urso hit attempt was really sanctioned or OK'ed by any of the higher ups. There were no made guys (at the time anyway) tied to that at all. The murders of actual made members, in modern times are still unsolved basically, right?

Coppola, Ricci and Izzi are all unsolved. Bruno obviously was.

[Luca]

I read Five Families by Selwyn Raab during quarantine last year. When they talk about the big windows case that brought down the chin they briefly talk about a Genovese soldier named Gerard pappa who was burying bodies under a window factory. In the book they more or less describe him as cocaine trafficker and psychopath. I guess he himself was murdered for killing a columbo. This was the first and only time I read about him. Does anyone know about this guy? Was he actually made? Doesn’t seem like a typical Genovese inductee…a young, drug dealing maniac. But I guess they didn’t tolerate him too long…

[eboli]

I read Five Families by Selwyn Raab during quarantine last year. When they talk about the big windows case that brought down the chin they briefly talk about a Genovese soldier named Gerard pappa who was burying bodies under a window factory. In the book they more or less describe him as cocaine trafficker and psychopath. I guess he himself was murdered for killing a columbo. This was the first and only time I read about him. Does anyone know about this guy? Was he actually made? Doesn’t seem like a typical Genovese inductee…a young, drug dealing maniac. But I guess they didn’t tolerate him too long…

Gerard Pappa became a made member in 1978. Crazy runs in his family. His son, John Pappa, was arrested at the ripe old age of 22 for four murders. Two years later, he was put away for life.

[Super]

I read Five Families by Selwyn Raab during quarantine last year. When they talk about the big windows case that brought down the chin they briefly talk about a Genovese soldier named Gerard pappa who was burying bodies under a window factory. In the book they more or less describe him as cocaine trafficker and psychopath. I guess he himself was murdered for killing a columbo. This was the first and only time I read about him. Does anyone know about this guy? Was he actually made? Doesn’t seem like a typical Genovese inductee…a young, drug dealing maniac. But I guess they didn’t tolerate him too long…

He is mentioned in the book by Sammy the bull

[Jimmy Napoli]

A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold.

[Villain]

Keep in mind a lot of the men recruited by Masseria proved themselves purely as violent criminals and though some relatives of members were inducted, the organizaton was built much differently from the others. There were much stronger familial/social links between members of other Families (both within a given Family and between them) while the Genovese were built on business and street relationships almost exclusively. It's not that family and friends in the mafia don't kill each other, but those factors do create more politics and thus opportunities for mediation while the Genovese had fewer of those ties.

Even though the other Families have come to resemble that model in some ways over the years, it wasn't their foundation. Historically an underworld trial in the Genovese Family didn't involve politics like whose brother, brother-in-law, father, son, paesani, etc. it was on trial and had fewer people willing/able to bargain for them. If someone committed an infraction, the politics were relatively simple: does he deserve to die or not. If this is how they ran things internally, you can imagine how it worked externally (not that they had the "right" to impact other Families' in that way, though). The Genovese aren't necessarily senseless brutes either -- their violence is very methodical and strategic which is interesting and in many ways more intimidating.

There is a much colder philosophy to the Genovese that comes from the way they developed early on. Not an exact science, but I don't think this can be ignored.

"We don't break our captains, we kill them" wasn't just a cute phrase from Gigante -- there is a history of demotion = death among the captain ranks that isn't as common in other Families.

This is definitely another strong parallel between them and Chicago, of course. Good discussion of an important factor here.

+1

[Wiseguy]

I do remember reading an FBI agent (may have been the Bonavalonta book) talking about how, when they went to arrest Fat Tony for the Commission Case, they found him sitting down to dinner with a bunch of his guys. He said something to the effect of, "They were the cream of the crop of the Mafia but they looked like a bunch of tired old men."

[bluehouse]

The Genovese also probably have the most unsolved hits, considering they have the least amount of members flipped, which makes them appear the most non-violent to outsiders like us. They're the second biggest family in terms of numbers, so I'm sure they always had a substantial amount of killers.

Yes i agree.Anyone who thinks the genevese arnt the most violant family are idiots.They are the most powerful and most profitable so that means their hooks extend far beyond the other families and the potential for violence is much more than the other families.Its just that they dont have enough informants to talk about it.

[Wiseguy]

The Genovese also probably have the most unsolved hits, considering they have the least amount of members flipped, which makes them appear the most non-violent to outsiders like us. They're the second biggest family in terms of numbers, so I'm sure they always had a substantial amount of killers.

The Genovese have been the largest family (by a slight margin) for the last 20-25 years.