Persico was a rat?

[mafiastudent]

Mafistaudent, thanks for posting but those pages are just more of the same. None of those guys are informants. The informant number is a unique identifier and would only apply to one individual, not several. 3461-C-TE is listed several times. This is simply stating that the particular informant assigned that number is able to give information on the captain listed in the associated column. Some of the captains have several T-CE's listed next to them, meaning that there are several T-CE's who have identified that individual as a captain or are able to provide intel on that captain's crew or group. The succeeding letter appears to have made a mistake wherein they saw this file, saw Persico (and several others') names, saw a C-TE reference next to them, and assumed they were all informants. Finally, the journalist(s) that ran this story probably didn't know any better (due to unfamiliarity with files) and ran with it.

In my opinion, 3461-C-TE is probably someone who has been publicly identified (not sure what Scarpa's number was) which is why their number remains unredacted while others are not.

That's why I posted them. I wanted you to confirm that because those are my thoughts as well. And the 2016 document I posted to show that this "information" was known back in 2016. So....

[Snakes]

Mafistaudent, thanks for posting but those pages are just more of the same. None of those guys are informants. The informant number is a unique identifier and would only apply to one individual, not several. 3461-C-TE is listed several times. This is simply stating that the particular informant assigned that number is able to give information on the captain listed in the associated column. Some of the captains have several T-CE's listed next to them, meaning that there are several T-CE's who have identified that individual as a captain or are able to provide intel on that captain's crew or group. The succeeding letter appears to have made a mistake wherein they saw this file, saw Persico (and several others') names, saw a C-TE reference next to them, and assumed they were all informants. Finally, the journalist(s) that ran this story probably didn't know any better (due to unfamiliarity with files) and ran with it.

In my opinion, 3461-C-TE is probably someone who has been publicly identified (not sure what Scarpa's number was) which is why their number remains unredacted while others are not.

That's why I posted them. I wanted you to confirm that because those are my thoughts as well. And the 2016 document I posted to show that this "information" was known back in 2016. So....

Great, thanks for clarifying

[B.]

I'm skeptical the document shows what Orena's lawyer claims. It seems that the document identifies Perisco's rank within the Columbo Crime Family and then gives the Intel's source. In Perisco's case, Greg Scarpa (NY 3461) provided the Intel, and multiple still redacted sources confirmed it. It's not indicating Perisco is (was) an informant. (I've seen this format used on other declassified FBI documents from the 1960s found on MF.)

If the interpretation of Orena's lawyer is accurate, wouldn't that mean Oddo and Mussachio were also informants? I don't see that.

According to previously declassified FBI documents, the bureau only had six LCN member informants among New York's 5 Families in 1974. However, another document noted the Colombo Crime Family might have had had three member-informants operating in 1975.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6735&p=169851#p169851

(Sally Muschachio died in 1972, and John Oddo in 1975. So either the FBI replaced them as informers, or they probably weren't informers at all.)

I think Orena's lawyer is just muddying the waters for his client. A real Hail Mary.

That said, it wouldn't shock me in the least to learn Persico dry-snitched a bit in the early 1960s during the Gallo-Profaci War.

Yep, you nailed it (of course).

3461-C-TE is well-known to be Greg Scarpa and he identified these ranking members. Just an ignorant understanding of FBI reports and/or Orena's lawyer grasping at straws.

Another likely Colombo member informant in the 1970s was Leonard Dello.

[Snakes]

I'm skeptical the document shows what Orena's lawyer claims. It seems that the document identifies Perisco's rank within the Columbo Crime Family and then gives the Intel's source. In Perisco's case, Greg Scarpa (NY 3461) provided the Intel, and multiple still redacted sources confirmed it. It's not indicating Perisco is (was) an informant. (I've seen this format used on other declassified FBI documents from the 1960s found on MF.)

If the interpretation of Orena's lawyer is accurate, wouldn't that mean Oddo and Mussachio were also informants? I don't see that.

According to previously declassified FBI documents, the bureau only had six LCN member informants among New York's 5 Families in 1974. However, another document noted the Colombo Crime Family might have had had three member-informants operating in 1975.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6735&p=169851#p169851

(Sally Muschachio died in 1972, and John Oddo in 1975. So either the FBI replaced them as informers, or they probably weren't informers at all.)

I think Orena's lawyer is just muddying the waters for his client. A real Hail Mary.

That said, it wouldn't shock me in the least to learn Persico dry-snitched a bit in the early 1960s during the Gallo-Profaci War.

Yep, you nailed it (of course).

3461-C-TE is well-known to be Greg Scarpa and he identified these ranking members. Just an ignorant understanding of FBI reports and/or Orena's lawyer grasping at straws.

Another likely Colombo member informant in the 1970s was Leonard Dello.

There you go. And damn those separate threads because I could have saved a lot of writing if I would have seen Ed's post earlier...

[MightyDR]

Thanks for clearing that up for us team. I have bad feeling that this is going to become another one of those Mafia myths we have to hear all the time though.

Not be go off topic, but does anyone know when Persico was actually "made"?

Several informants have said that there were inductions during the mid 50s and that the books were closed in 1957. Scarpa said the Gallos were made around 1956. Given Persico's age, I would guess he was made around the same time.

[Tonyd621]

Larry McShane is doing a live MBA and buttonman and they are all discussing it as a fact. Of course Pennisi wants it to be true

This is what happens when people immediately take things at face value. I'm sure it could still be true but from what I've seen there is nothing there. In fact, something like this could be what Red Wemette saw when he claimed he received files that outed John DiFronzo as an informant. These people simply don't know what they are looking at.

Pennisi has a horse in this race because he flipped too imo. There is no way Sally the Shiek was a rat idk alot about Oddo or the guys name with Carmine, but Sally the Shiek, forget it it's bs. They are rewriting history based off of a single page! Besides this one document its all hear say.[ So and So went to Washington DC.] [Colombo associate claims its 100% true.] "Rumblings in the street about this.] [His son might of gotten plea deal because of him flipping.] And on and on it goes... jumping to conclusions...remember when the media said Gene Gorti was in on the Cali hit..and good point about Red Wemette... and I think because it's the most common question red is asked about DiFronzo being an informant...

[Tonyd621]

Pennisi hates and thinks there is nothing more wrong then putting false wires on people

[thesalesexpert]

Larry McShane on the MBA & Button:

https://youtu.be/4oBzna6YXPM

[RickyBrown]

Larry McShane on the MBA & Button:

https://youtu.be/4oBzna6YXPM

you should read through this thread and realize the so called paperwork is bullshit. you already did a video on it where you guys seemed pretty decided about it though.

[Ryan98366]

Larry McShane on the MBA & Button:

https://youtu.be/4oBzna6YXPM

I am getting sick of the members on this board giving credibility to “Mr. 9-5 Job Pennisi.” He’s a scumbag who did zero in the mafia.

Who cares what he thinks on anything. He’s a bum.

He knows ZERO about Carmine Persico. Persico wasn’t an informant. Use common sense please.

Pennisi is a soft spoken, low testosterone do nothing bum. He isn’t fit to hold Persico’s cigarette.

Clearly this is a lie.

[B.]

No reason to insult anyone and drag the board down.

But yeah, Pennisi and Big Tom should take a read through this thread.

[Pmac2]

Yaeh this is alot of nothing. I read alot kf files on the merry Ferrell shit they all look like that. Dont think carmine would have brought the feds to teial 3 tines in the 60 if he was telling they would have gave him passes like scarpa

[Pmac2]

3 times in the 60tys he got 10yrs for loansharking

[Pmac2]

People arw rite they dont know what there looking at

[thesalesexpert]

No need to insult, Larry McShane came on because he broke the story and is the source. If there is anything to dispute it, it will be published as well.