Penissi Amuso Comments and Imprisoned Bosses

[Frank]

i kinda dont think the decision was in peter gottis hands to decide who would be acting boss. i bet he didnt even have the say to make jackie nose the acting boss around 2007. i bet the capos in the family kinda voted on him or something like that. damico made cefulo his acting underboss and it seems like john gambino pulled it the sicilian way after 2010

Oh I don’t think anyone thought Pete was picking acting bosses just that he was being used as official boss without having any decision making capacity.


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Squitieri and Damico were Gotti guys so my guess is yes Pete did. It looks like Petes power in decisions started to end when the ruling panel of Gambino, Marino and Vernace led the family

[Frank]

Cant a Boss be voted out by captains

[Arnold06]

the lightning rod thing is i think overblown. for starters hes already locked up. and even though he has respect, influence, and is getting some money behind bars, everybody including the feds know he’s severely limited compared to guys on the streets when it comes to making things happen. if they were such lightning rods, then theoretically they should be added on to the indictments we inevitably see when countless iterations of their acting administrations get busted.

with that said its amazing there hasnt been a big top level gambino indictment in a while. 12 years or so? but it also isnt because peter gotti had just been taking all the heat during that time, either

What about Amuso restructuring the Family administration from prison as recently as last year? Wouldn’t you say that’s making things happen?


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[Arnold06]

wanted to add that for Amuso, im going to guess that guys on the street probably dont think he was a ‘bad boss’ like we do watching from the outside, and he was probably liked and respected by the rank and file a lot more than we thought. theres probably a lot of guys who legitimately think hes not making bad calls, in combo with them respecting him AND the title itself

from the stories and all that I always pegged him as a ruthless, greedy, paranoid, out for himself type of guy...but hearing Pennisi talk about him makes me think that maybe he wasnt. maybe he was just a gangster, and in that world maybe some of those hits, as sick as they were, were justified.

just hearing that vic was getting money, had backers loyal to him, even had the acting bronx guys still recognize him , made me rethink the whole “amuso reign of terror” thing.

theres been a lot of rats who have badmouthed other bosses like Gotti or other high profile guys as being bad for LCN but nobody has ever came out and said that about Amuso

Very good point about public perception versus private. Vic’s always stood out as one of the lesser known third generation bosses from the 80’s, overlooked due to Casso’s notoriety. It’s simply an opinion but I always look at the boss as being ultimately responsible and Vic oversaw Gas killing all those guys, some who were generating tons of income for the Family that stopped after their deaths, and had a number of his guys turn on them. From a business stand point it didn’t make sense to keep taking orders from a guy like that, even in a diminished capacity.


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[Arnold06]

Cant a Boss be voted out by captains

No I don’t think so but someone else may know of an instance where that’s happened?


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[Arnold06]

i kinda dont think the decision was in peter gottis hands to decide who would be acting boss. i bet he didnt even have the say to make jackie nose the acting boss around 2007. i bet the capos in the family kinda voted on him or something like that. damico made cefulo his acting underboss and it seems like john gambino pulled it the sicilian way after 2010

Oh I don’t think anyone thought Pete was picking acting bosses just that he was being used as official boss without having any decision making capacity.


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Squitieri and Damico were Gotti guys so my guess is yes Pete did. It looks like Petes power in decisions started to end when the ruling panel of Gambino, Marino and Vernace led the family

Wow Peter Gotti picking acting bosses sounds scary!


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[Pmac2]

Lil vic orena the acting boss for carmine persico from 88 to 1991 asked the consigliere carmine sessa to pull all the capos in the family to vote vic in as official boss. Carmine went straight to carmine threw his brother teddy orders to kill vic orena

[eboli]

Technically, all made members are equal - from the boss to the lowest broke as a joke soldier. The boss is an 'elected' position, meaning the person with the most influence and approval within the family gets the top spot. This wasn't always the case, but was expected from the leader to 'step down' once he lost the trust of the family or when he's no longer able to keep up with his responsibilities. The further back we go, the more this tradition seems to have been respected.

Even if we ignore the fact that Vic Amuso has the support of factions within his own family, forcing him to step down will accomplish nothing except paint a bigger target on the person running the organization. The feds know all the top guys' positions and what they do, and that has been the case since the 1970s for the New York families.

The efforts with the acting/street/front bosses make it harder for indictments to stick, and it doesn't look good for headlines. Tradition is circumvented for practical reasons. When the official boss is free or expected to see the streets again, the acting boss is a shield. When the official boss is in prison for life, the roles are reversed.

So far ruling panels and acting bosses acting as messengers between the top guys and middle management has been the best method for them to reduce their losses. Still, it's difficult to evaluate exactly how effective their methods are since it coincided with the reduction of the federal resources allocated towards fighting organized crime.

[SonnyBlackstein]

The boss is the boss is the boss sounds great when you’re quoting Neil Dellacroce but if the boss isn’t doing his job why is he there aside from an outdated rule? It’s ancient logic and overall hurts operations and while I hear what your saying regarding the boss not being removed forcibly unless under extreme circumstances I’d argue Vic’s mismanagement of the Family through the 80’s and 90’s was extreme enough to warrant him being demoted.

1. This whole thing is based on 'outdated rules'. Note the second word there.
2. Demoted? This isnt a democracy. I used the cliche 'the boss is the boss' because its a cliche sure, but its also the truth. You dont vote the boss out. Look at Cammarano. He 'voted' the boss out. And found his ass shelved 12 months later. You want the boss out and he doesnt agree? one of you is getting clipped and 9 times out of ten its going to be you.

[Frank]

Power and do you have the balls to kill the boss

[Frank]

Or in Vics case overthrow the boss. The more I think about it. There a many scenerios that could have played out over the last 30 years and just as many explainations as to why he remained boss. Was he voted by the capos to remain boss. Was there never a vote. Was it fear of Vic originally years ago. Did any plans to take over not go into action do to a person or persons going to prison. Not worth a war Fear of Commission. Loyalty to Vic. Nobody wanted to rock the boat or nobody wanted the job. The list is endless

[Extortion]

I recently asked John Penissi about Vic Amuso’s leadership on a blog he was doing a Q and A on, inquiring why the Lucchese Family didn’t pressure Amuso to step down as official boss considering his track record. (Inability to control Casso, unnecessary murders, multiple informants connected to him and being imprisoned for life to name a few.)

While I was aware of the rule a boss can hold his spot no matter what Penissi reiterated it and said they “respected Vic as boss because of what he’d done to get that spot.” (Paraphrasing as I couldn’t find the blog, and thanks to Mr. Penissi for answering.)

Historically imprisoned for life bosses don’t work and the rule a boss doesn’t need to step down seems detrimental to the modern mob. I understand the concept of keeping someone “official” to be a lightening rod for law enforcement but why take direct orders from a guy who’s never going to see the street again and who’s decisions as boss have led to catastrophe? (Amuso, Persico and Gotti seem the best examples.)

Would love to hear thoughts.


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That was mostly Casso ordering those wild murders or manipulating Amuso...From what I understand he is a old school gangster from the bygone era where people who were old school were a dime a dozen. Growing up in the 50s and 60s he saw they operated but at the same time reaching into his 30s in the 1970s or maybe even as far back as the 60s he probably was trafficking. Apparently he did a bid in the 1970s for trafficking I believe.

If you were stuck in jail for life, would you want to give up that spot?

[Extortion]

For better or worse, it seems Amuso has always carried respect in the family. And in all the cases above (Amuso, Persico, Gotti), there were still plenty of people on the street that saw the imprisoned boss retaining power as benefiting them.

Who were those people that would benefit? I understand how immediately following their arrests there’d be people wanting them to remain official for political/financial reasons but Persico fought a war that crippled the Family and Amuso was rearranging the admin as early as last year without any financial contributions to the Lucchese’s for decades. At what point would you say they’re official but we don’t take orders from a guy locked up forever that’s making bad calls? In Gotti’s case I see no benefits to him remaining official boss for the Gambino’s outside of being a lightening rod, especially with his choice of acting bosses. Thanks again for contributing!


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My guess would be that every case is different. I would think how much clout on the outside certain bosses had. How members view LCN. Is it respect for not ratting? I think the lightning rod theory is not at all a major reason at all.

You don’t think it’s a good idea to retain a high profile boss to hide the real bosses?


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Im not sure it works. Underbosses, acting bosses, Capos are busted still. The 2 acting bosses for Pete Gotti where busted. Also 2 panel members It might work for a little while. In alot of instances it didnt.

You make a good point with the Gotti’s in that both Junior and Peter were busted as well as the other figure heads and the same can be said for Persico. The Gotti’s and Persico’s seem like the biggest cancers leadership wise.


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Yeah no shit but would you really want to give up position of boss I wanna organize crime family if you were in prison for life? No. By the time these bosses are in prison for life they’ve already seen the life start to decline rapidly or maybe they realized it was all bullshit but they’re all greedy mostly in after themselves so why wouldn’t they hold onto the sheet as boss? This is a crime family were talking about not like a country the days of Don Carlo are gone. Just get over it. People want this godfather shit so bad. It aint like that anymore..hasnt been for decades.

[Rocco]

I recently asked John Penissi about Vic Amuso’s leadership on a blog he was doing a Q and A on, inquiring why the Lucchese Family didn’t pressure Amuso to step down as official boss considering his track record. (Inability to control Casso, unnecessary murders, multiple informants connected to him and being imprisoned for life to name a few.)

While I was aware of the rule a boss can hold his spot no matter what Penissi reiterated it and said they “respected Vic as boss because of what he’d done to get that spot.” (Paraphrasing as I couldn’t find the blog, and thanks to Mr. Penissi for answering.)

Historically imprisoned for life bosses don’t work and the rule a boss doesn’t need to step down seems detrimental to the modern mob. I understand the concept of keeping someone “official” to be a lightening rod for law enforcement but why take direct orders from a guy who’s never going to see the street again and who’s decisions as boss have led to catastrophe? (Amuso, Persico and Gotti seem the best examples.)

Would love to hear thoughts.


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An official boss who is doing life in prison really isn't a lightening rod. FBI still goes after the acting boss or ruling panel just as if they were official boss themselves. So Amuso being Official boss did not take the heat of Madonna , Crea or DiNapoli one bit. THey were still targeted and still taken down by LE.

[Pmac2]

I still dont under stand how they get a made guy or agent up on the stand and say only the boss can decide if another guy broke a code and should be whacked. Example big al bruno in 2003 gets whacked by the genovese family did chin gigante really give a ok? Probaly not. It's like when they say a member has to kill for the family that is also a false narrative.