Penissi Amuso Comments and Imprisoned Bosses

[Arnold06]

I recently asked John Penissi about Vic Amuso’s leadership on a blog he was doing a Q and A on, inquiring why the Lucchese Family didn’t pressure Amuso to step down as official boss considering his track record. (Inability to control Casso, unnecessary murders, multiple informants connected to him and being imprisoned for life to name a few.)

While I was aware of the rule a boss can hold his spot no matter what Penissi reiterated it and said they “respected Vic as boss because of what he’d done to get that spot.” (Paraphrasing as I couldn’t find the blog, and thanks to Mr. Penissi for answering.)

Historically imprisoned for life bosses don’t work and the rule a boss doesn’t need to step down seems detrimental to the modern mob. I understand the concept of keeping someone “official” to be a lightening rod for law enforcement but why take direct orders from a guy who’s never going to see the street again and who’s decisions as boss have led to catastrophe? (Amuso, Persico and Gotti seem the best examples.)

Would love to hear thoughts.


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[Wiseguy]

For better or worse, it seems Amuso has always carried respect in the family. And in all the cases above (Amuso, Persico, Gotti), there were still plenty of people on the street that saw the imprisoned boss retaining power as benefiting them.

[Arnold06]

For better or worse, it seems Amuso has always carried respect in the family. And in all the cases above (Amuso, Persico, Gotti), there were still plenty of people on the street that saw the imprisoned boss retaining power as benefiting them.

Who were those people that would benefit? I understand how immediately following their arrests there’d be people wanting them to remain official for political/financial reasons but Persico fought a war that crippled the Family and Amuso was rearranging the admin as early as last year without any financial contributions to the Lucchese’s for decades. At what point would you say they’re official but we don’t take orders from a guy locked up forever that’s making bad calls? In Gotti’s case I see no benefits to him remaining official boss for the Gambino’s outside of being a lightening rod, especially with his choice of acting bosses. Thanks again for contributing!


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[JohnnyS]

Here's another way to look at it regarding Gotti, how would it benefit the Gambinos by taking Gotti down? If everybody knew Peter Gotti was boss in name only and the guys running the family are on the street it doesnt make a difference if Cefalu was the official boss or acting.

Gotti was technically serving a life sentence, everybody knew he was dying in there and his power had diminished. They probably just figured its best to keep him at the top and maybe it was a respect thing too.

[Frank]

For better or worse, it seems Amuso has always carried respect in the family. And in all the cases above (Amuso, Persico, Gotti), there were still plenty of people on the street that saw the imprisoned boss retaining power as benefiting them.

Who were those people that would benefit? I understand how immediately following their arrests there’d be people wanting them to remain official for political/financial reasons but Persico fought a war that crippled the Family and Amuso was rearranging the admin as early as last year without any financial contributions to the Lucchese’s for decades. At what point would you say they’re official but we don’t take orders from a guy locked up forever that’s making bad calls? In Gotti’s case I see no benefits to him remaining official boss for the Gambino’s outside of being a lightening rod, especially with his choice of acting bosses. Thanks again for contributing!


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My guess would be that every case is different. I would think how much clout on the outside certain bosses had. How members view LCN. Is it respect for not ratting? I think the lightning rod theory is not at all a major reason at all.

[Arnold06]

Here's another way to look at it regarding Gotti, how would it benefit the Gambinos by taking Gotti down? If everybody knew Peter Gotti was boss in name only and the guys running the family are on the street it doesnt make a difference if Cefalu was the official boss or acting.

Gotti was technically serving a life sentence, everybody knew he was dying in there and his power had diminished. They probably just figured its best to keep him at the top and maybe it was a respect thing too.

I completely agree with you, Gotti was a perfect lightening rod while the Gambino’s restructured behind the scenes.


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[Arnold06]

For better or worse, it seems Amuso has always carried respect in the family. And in all the cases above (Amuso, Persico, Gotti), there were still plenty of people on the street that saw the imprisoned boss retaining power as benefiting them.

Who were those people that would benefit? I understand how immediately following their arrests there’d be people wanting them to remain official for political/financial reasons but Persico fought a war that crippled the Family and Amuso was rearranging the admin as early as last year without any financial contributions to the Lucchese’s for decades. At what point would you say they’re official but we don’t take orders from a guy locked up forever that’s making bad calls? In Gotti’s case I see no benefits to him remaining official boss for the Gambino’s outside of being a lightening rod, especially with his choice of acting bosses. Thanks again for contributing!


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My guess would be that every case is different. I would think how much clout on the outside certain bosses had. How members view LCN. Is it respect for not ratting? I think the lightning rod theory is not at all a major reason at all.

You don’t think it’s a good idea to retain a high profile boss to hide the real bosses?


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[Frank]

For better or worse, it seems Amuso has always carried respect in the family. And in all the cases above (Amuso, Persico, Gotti), there were still plenty of people on the street that saw the imprisoned boss retaining power as benefiting them.

Who were those people that would benefit? I understand how immediately following their arrests there’d be people wanting them to remain official for political/financial reasons but Persico fought a war that crippled the Family and Amuso was rearranging the admin as early as last year without any financial contributions to the Lucchese’s for decades. At what point would you say they’re official but we don’t take orders from a guy locked up forever that’s making bad calls? In Gotti’s case I see no benefits to him remaining official boss for the Gambino’s outside of being a lightening rod, especially with his choice of acting bosses. Thanks again for contributing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My guess would be that every case is different. I would think how much clout on the outside certain bosses had. How members view LCN. Is it respect for not ratting? I think the lightning rod theory is not at all a major reason at all.

You don’t think it’s a good idea to retain a high profile boss to hide the real bosses?


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Im not sure it works. Underbosses, acting bosses, Capos are busted still. The 2 acting bosses for Pete Gotti where busted. Also 2 panel members It might work for a little while. In alot of instances it didnt.

[Arnold06]

For better or worse, it seems Amuso has always carried respect in the family. And in all the cases above (Amuso, Persico, Gotti), there were still plenty of people on the street that saw the imprisoned boss retaining power as benefiting them.

Who were those people that would benefit? I understand how immediately following their arrests there’d be people wanting them to remain official for political/financial reasons but Persico fought a war that crippled the Family and Amuso was rearranging the admin as early as last year without any financial contributions to the Lucchese’s for decades. At what point would you say they’re official but we don’t take orders from a guy locked up forever that’s making bad calls? In Gotti’s case I see no benefits to him remaining official boss for the Gambino’s outside of being a lightening rod, especially with his choice of acting bosses. Thanks again for contributing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My guess would be that every case is different. I would think how much clout on the outside certain bosses had. How members view LCN. Is it respect for not ratting? I think the lightning rod theory is not at all a major reason at all.

You don’t think it’s a good idea to retain a high profile boss to hide the real bosses?


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Im not sure it works. Underbosses, acting bosses, Capos are busted still. The 2 acting bosses for Pete Gotti where busted. Also 2 panel members It might work for a little while. In alot of instances it didnt.

You make a good point with the Gotti’s in that both Junior and Peter were busted as well as the other figure heads and the same can be said for Persico. The Gotti’s and Persico’s seem like the biggest cancers leadership wise.


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[Pmac2]

i kinda dont think the decision was in peter gottis hands to decide who would be acting boss. i bet he didnt even have the say to make jackie nose the acting boss around 2007. i bet the capos in the family kinda voted on him or something like that. damico made cefulo his acting underboss and it seems like john gambino pulled it the sicilian way after 2010

[Arnold06]

i kinda dont think the decision was in peter gottis hands to decide who would be acting boss. i bet he didnt even have the say to make jackie nose the acting boss around 2007. i bet the capos in the family kinda voted on him or something like that. damico made cefulo his acting underboss and it seems like john gambino pulled it the sicilian way after 2010

Oh I don’t think anyone thought Pete was picking acting bosses just that he was being used as official boss without having any decision making capacity.


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[SonnyBlackstein]

What we're missing here is also the point that the boss is the boss is the boss.
You dont 'just' vote a new boss in when one goes away. The boss is the boss.

We have seen this with Amuso, Mancuso, Peter Gotti. All current bosses (allow me a little leeway on PG) who EVERYONE swore werent the real 'power', were figurehead in name etc etc and were proven wrong (again, leeway PG)

What we've learnt from this is deposing a boss is an uncommon thing. When you have a boss, you have a boss, barring very extreme circumstances.

So all this talk about getting rid of vic, is simply not how things work. Vics the boss. And the boss is the boss...

[Arnold06]

What we're missing here is also the point that the boss is the boss is the boss.
You dont 'just' vote a new boss in when one goes away. The boss is the boss.

We have seen this with Amuso, Mancuso, Peter Gotti. All current bosses (allow me a little leeway on PG) who EVERYONE swore werent the real 'power', were figurehead in name etc etc and were proven wrong (again, leeway PG)

What we've learnt from this is deposing a boss is an uncommon thing. When you have a boss, you have a boss, barring very extreme circumstances.

So all this talk about getting rid of vic, is simply not how things work. Vics the boss. And the boss is the boss...

The boss is the boss is the boss sounds great when you’re quoting Neil Dellacroce but if the boss isn’t doing his job why is he there aside from an outdated rule? It’s ancient logic and overall hurts operations and while I hear what your saying regarding the boss not being removed forcibly unless under extreme circumstances I’d argue Vic’s mismanagement of the Family through the 80’s and 90’s was extreme enough to warrant him being demoted.


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[newera_212]

the lightning rod thing is i think overblown. for starters hes already locked up. and even though he has respect, influence, and is getting some money behind bars, everybody including the feds know he’s severely limited compared to guys on the streets when it comes to making things happen. if they were such lightning rods, then theoretically they should be added on to the indictments we inevitably see when countless iterations of their acting administrations get busted.

with that said its amazing there hasnt been a big top level gambino indictment in a while. 12 years or so? but it also isnt because peter gotti had just been taking all the heat during that time, either

[newera_212]

wanted to add that for Amuso, im going to guess that guys on the street probably dont think he was a ‘bad boss’ like we do watching from the outside, and he was probably liked and respected by the rank and file a lot more than we thought. theres probably a lot of guys who legitimately think hes not making bad calls, in combo with them respecting him AND the title itself

from the stories and all that I always pegged him as a ruthless, greedy, paranoid, out for himself type of guy...but hearing Pennisi talk about him makes me think that maybe he wasnt. maybe he was just a gangster, and in that world maybe some of those hits, as sick as they were, were justified.

just hearing that vic was getting money, had backers loyal to him, even had the acting bronx guys still recognize him , made me rethink the whole “amuso reign of terror” thing.

theres been a lot of rats who have badmouthed other bosses like Gotti or other high profile guys as being bad for LCN but nobody has ever came out and said that about Amuso