Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[calabrianwatch]

Also, glad to see you read up on the conflict within the Camera Di Controllo. I didnt want to be hostile, you were new to the board, and an Italian resident.

But I had questions on Bruzzesse and Ursino being "Commisso men". I was going to say, current info would kinda contradict this.

Also, highly interesting to me as an aside.... the Coluccios drug ops being dismantled, and them turning to the Mancusos. The Aquino and Commissos backing the Piscopisani in Vibo, AGAINST the Mancuso, I think this a direct reaction to the Mancusos making inroads into the Mother Locale Marina Di Gioiosa, as well as lobbying Polsi for a Crimine in Vibo. They were getting way too powerful.....

My thinking here is that Rocco Aquino didnt authorize the Coluccios to get their supply through Mancuso channels...... The Ursino were also going around Siderno, building thier own routes through New York with the Gambinos, soon as the cops knocked em down, the Siderno people expelled em all.....

hang on...the first part, I am with you...the second part depends on which Ursinos - in Calabria the Ursino/Aquino have been kind of in an endless feud with Siderno, not so in Canada...so yeah, depends on where!

[B.]

Just now, on a live Mob Museum program on the Canadian Mafia, presenter Stephen Metelsky, a former police sergeant who worked on Project Otremes, is discussing Buffalo.

He is talking about the induction of Dominic Violi. He just said the 'Todaro Family" is still active. And that Joe Todaro is the boss of Buffalo.

“Wasn’t bravado, wasn’t boasting...he is old school mafiosi...there were 30 other candidates all American mobsters that were overlooked.”

Quite the statement above. 30 other candidates for the underboss position Buffalo all in the US. Does that mean there are more than 30 made men, and only 30 in the US were considered?

He stressed the point that they were American members, for sure. I wonder if the case developed intelligence to back that up or if it was just the sergeant or Morena's take.

The sergeant also said Enzo Morena grew up with the Violis, so apparently Morena was from Hamilton before NYC. That explains why he moved there and how he got so close to them.

He says Morena had existing ties to the Canadian mob and connections to Montreal. Says the Violi brothers were on good terms with Montreal with the Rizzuto group out of power. Maybe there is some good info on Montreal from this investigation that will see the light eventually.

He says the Canadian Buffalo members only communicate in code about Joe Todaro and that Natale Luppino is incredibly cautious.

As mentioned above, the sergeant believes the Violis were going to be carrying out one or two hits in America for Joe Todaro -- this is what Morena told him about some coded conversations.

He seems to imply that Montreal is still connected to or involved with the Bonanno family. Makes it a point that they're "all in this underworld together" on both sides of the border when it comes to Hamilton, Buffalo, Montreal, and NYC.

Says LE observed Pat Musitano and his cousin Pino Avignone being introduced as "our friends from Hamilton" to Vito Rizzuto by Guy Panepinto in a Toronto restaurant circa 1997. The sergeant believes it was a formal mafia introduction letting them know Musitano was made. Musitano had first "disappeared" for around four days following the Papalia and Barillaro murders, then wiretaps picked up Muistano's wife saying the "eagle has landed" on the fifth day. The sergeant believes Musitano went to Buffalo to get made during that time and that's what his wife was referring to. If this is all accurate, it would mean Pat Musitano, Pino Avignone, and Guy Panepinto were all made members.

[Newyorkempire]

Cue all the posters who doubt Buffalo's existence and watch them try to talk their way out of this. I'm sure one of the lines will be "This retired Sgt. of the RCMP was just being loose with the facts and really is confused, Buffalo has had no real significance since 1996."

[OcSleeper]

“Wasn’t bravado, wasn’t boasting...he is old school mafiosi...there were 30 other candidates all American mobsters that were overlooked.”

Quite the statement above. 30 other candidates for the underboss position Buffalo all in the US. Does that mean there are more than 30 made men, and only 30 in the US were considered?

I noticed that little detail as well. I think he just misspoke, he was fumbling over his words the whole video. When they did the little Q&A at the end I dont think he gave a single straight answer.

They confirmed Pat Musitano as a made member of Buffalo Cosa Nostra.... the Papalia hit finally makes sense.......

I thought this was the most noteworthy thing from the video. For years it was Musitano did the hit for Vito and then cozied up to him, or they did the hit because they owed Papalia 250k and didn't want to pay it back and then cozied up to Vito.

The rumours always came back to the Musitanos aligning themselves with Vito after the Papalia hit, never they were made into Buffalo. If this is true it goes against what Ken Murdock said.

Can we assume either Tony or Pat Musitano has been the Ontario Capo for Buffalo since around 1997-2015?

[Newyorkempire]

Jonny Catz was caught on wire talking to Pat about Papalia needing to get hit. It was not assumed that they aligned with Vito after that.

[NickleCity]

Jonny Catz was caught on wire talking to Pat about Papalia needing to get hit. It was not assumed that they aligned with Vito after that.

This was provided by Paul Manning a couple years ago:

[NickleCity]

^^^^
The conversation happened after the hit, showing Buffalo was still working with the Musitanos after the hit on Pops.

[Newyorkempire]

The conversation was before the hit Nickle. Saying he "cant complain to Joe", meaning Joe Sr. most likely in the late 90s even if Jr. was acting boss.

[Pogo The Clown]

Cue all the posters who doubt Buffalo's existence and watch them try to talk their way out of this. I'm sure one of the lines will be "This retired Sgt. of the RCMP was just being loose with the facts and really is confused, Buffalo has had no real significance since 1996."

Since you felt the need to start this again I'll raise you with two successive heads of the FBI Buffalo field office who both said flat out the family is gone.


But hey forget 30, Buffalo is now closing in on 40 or more members and plotting several international murders. At this rate they shall overtake Philly by Christmas and within a few years they will take their rightful place among NY as the 6th family.


Pogo

[Newyorkempire]

Like I said. On cue. That was real hard to predict

[NickleCity]

Since you felt the need to start this again I'll raise you with two successive heads of the FBI Buffalo field office who both said flat out the family is gone.


But hey forget 30, Buffalo is now closing in on 40 or more members and plotting several international murders. At this rate they shall overtake Philly by Christmas and within a few years they will take their rightful place among NY as the 6th family.


Pogo

Was it the SAC before Cohen? Cause I believe all the SAC’s after had no comment on the matter.

[Newyorkempire]

It was after Nickle

[Newyorkempire]

And the idea of Buffalo taking over Philly and becoming the 6th family is a novel idea if that's something you believe but really second secondary to all the evidence about Buffalo, especially now that a retired RCMP Sgt. has said what he's said. But he has no idea what he's talking about either right? Bunch of blowhards that care why more about trying to push their own narrative than to follow the evidence that's been uncovered for years now.

[B.]

Don't complain about certain people's arguments then tempt them to start the argument back up again. Pogo is right about that.

We have interesting public comments from a top LE officer involved with Project Otremens, so let's stick to that.

--

- When he was talking about connections between Canada and the US, he said they are "historically and presently" aligned, and interestingly he seemed to include the Bonannos/Montreal as well as Buffalo/Ontario within that statement. He didn't say anything about any change in affiliation, or groups breaking off, re-joining, or anything like that. Granted, he was mainly talking about his own investigation which focused on Buffalo members in Ontario.

- His historic run-down on Montreal and Ontario was like something he pulled off Wikipedia, and it might well have been given that his working knowledge is modern.

- If his interpretation of the Musiitano, Avignone, Panepinto, and Rizzuto meeting in 1997 is accurate, and it did come on the heels of Mustano taking a trip to Buffalo where he was made, it would imply Avignone was either already made or made alongside Musitano. I know this dinner meeting has been mentioned in books, but to my knowledge this is the first time it's been contextualized as Musitano's introduction as a formal member to Rizzuto.

- Something we don't know either, is if Domenico Violi was inducted with other men.

- The photo still from the Bonanno induction was kind of depressing. It was cramped and the beds in the hotel room weren't even made. If you're going to make a guy, at least make sure the beds are made, too.

- Also, it looks in the photo still like there were only three guys involved in the actual induction. It's possible others were out of sight and it was hard to see given the people were blurred out, but I didn't see Domenico Violi in the image. Were the reports explicit that he attended the Morena induction itself or did he attend a dinner with them afterward?

- The sergeant def emphasized that the Buffalo Ontario members try to be highly secretive and it seems Morena's personal relationship to the Violis was much closer and longer-term than we realized. He didn't elaborate on it, but he did specifically say Morena grew up with the Violis and had existing ties to Canadian mafia figures long before Project Otremens was initiated. The sergeant said Morena used that as leverage during his intitial cooperation so that LE would help bring him from Italy to Canada.

[Wiseguy]

Cue all the posters who doubt Buffalo's existence and watch them try to talk their way out of this. I'm sure one of the lines will be "This retired Sgt. of the RCMP was just being loose with the facts and really is confused, Buffalo has had no real significance since 1996."

Since you felt the need to start this again I'll raise you with two successive heads of the FBI Buffalo field office who both said flat out the family is gone.


But hey forget 30, Buffalo is now closing in on 40 or more members and plotting several international murders. At this rate they shall overtake Philly by Christmas and within a few years they will take their rightful place among NY as the 6th family.


Pogo

The topic is an American LCN family but apparently what US authorities say holds no weight.

Don't complain about certain people's arguments then tempt them to start the argument back up again. Pogo is right about that.

Thank you.

Really...trying...to...exercise...restraint...here...