General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thanks. Btw Sarno's crew also entered MP right?

I think Sarno's crew essentially moved in and took everything. Remember when Marcello (who was Carlisi's underboss) was on wiretap with his brother asking about Sarno and Cataudella who he called "Mutt and Jeff." What I don't understand is whether Sarno was essentially organizing a coup against Marcello and the old guard prior to Family Secrets by taking out his main guys like Zizzo and Chiaramonte, or whether this was being done with Marcello's permission and his guys simply weren't backing down. I tend to wonder if Inenendino and DeLaurentis were somewhat pulling the strings here and where DiFronzo stood in this.

I think Chiaramonte just pissed off the wrong people. I doubt Marcello shed many tears when he went. When Zizzo was killed, Marcello was already done in by Family Secrets so the fear of retaliation was lower. There are indications that Sarno got permission from either DiFronzo or Andriacchi (directly or indirectly) to get rid of Zizzo.

I'm spacing on the details at the moment but wasn't there some reporting that Joey A was the last guy to be seen with LT before he went ghost? I suspect that by that point DiFronzo and Andriacchi had already signed off on Zizzo as well, and who knows, maybe they played a direct role in his disappearance. It's possible that the get together that Snakes referenced was a last ditch attempt by DiFronzo to reign LT in. I recall also hearing suspicions that Vena was responsible for taking Zizzo out, but that's just conjecture so far as I know. If it were true, I think it would be consistent with Vena's longer career trajectory. I believe it's possible that when Vena took over Grand Ave he was "street boss", if such a position still existed, and thus was in charge of what was left of the Outfit's enforcement wing, a la Lombardo and Ferriola in the past.

[Snakes]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thanks. Btw Sarno's crew also entered MP right?

I think Sarno's crew essentially moved in and took everything. Remember when Marcello (who was Carlisi's underboss) was on wiretap with his brother asking about Sarno and Cataudella who he called "Mutt and Jeff." What I don't understand is whether Sarno was essentially organizing a coup against Marcello and the old guard prior to Family Secrets by taking out his main guys like Zizzo and Chiaramonte, or whether this was being done with Marcello's permission and his guys simply weren't backing down. I tend to wonder if Inenendino and DeLaurentis were somewhat pulling the strings here and where DiFronzo stood in this.

I think Chiaramonte just pissed off the wrong people. I doubt Marcello shed many tears when he went. When Zizzo was killed, Marcello was already done in by Family Secrets so the fear of retaliation was lower. There are indications that Sarno got permission from either DiFronzo or Andriacchi (directly or indirectly) to get rid of Zizzo.

I'm spacing on the details at the moment but wasn't there some reporting that Joey A was the last guy to be seen with LT before he went ghost? I suspect that by that point DiFronzo and Andriacchi had already signed off on Zizzo as well, and who knows, maybe they played a direct role in his disappearance. It's possible that the get together that Snakes referenced was a last ditch attempt by DiFronzo to reign LT in. I recall also hearing suspicions that Vena was responsible for taking Zizzo out, but that's just conjecture so far as I know. If it were true, I think it would be consistent with Vena's longer career trajectory. I believe it's possible that when Vena took over Grand Ave he was "street boss", if such a position still existed, and thus was in charge of what was left of the Outfit's enforcement wing, a la Lombardo and Ferriola in the past.

Andriacchi was allegedly part of the sit-down that Zizzo was invited to attend prior to his disappearance. Sarno and Vena were allegedly also part of that scheduled meeting. What happened in the interim and who did it is what isn't known. It was never mentioned whether or not the restaurant Zizzo's jeep was found at was the site of the meeting.

[SolarSolano]

It was reported that Mickey Marcello and Frank Schweihs had words with Chiaramonte leading up to this as well. I think the largest question is whether Zizzo was working on behalf of Jimmy Marcello when he was killed, or whether Marcello signed off on it.

Where is Mickey Marcello these days? I wonder if he is still in Chicago - I have to expect Sarno's crew took over everything he and his brother were doing at this point.

[Snakes]

It was reported that Mickey Marcello and Frank Schweihs had words with Chiaramonte leading up to this as well. I think the largest question is whether Zizzo was working on behalf of Jimmy Marcello when he was killed, or whether Marcello signed off on it.

Where is Mickey Marcello these days? I wonder if he is still in Chicago - I have to expect Sarno's crew took over everything he and his brother were doing at this point.

Considering Marcello got a life sentence I'm not sure there was much he could have done about it. Chicago has always had a "next man up" mentality when it comes to guys going to prison.

[Coloboy]

Another interesting topic during this entire late 90s/early 2000s/family secrets time period to me was always Lombardo. The common consensus here is that he had some type of senior advisor or what other families would call “Consigliere” type position.

He is interesting to me because the more that you read about him the more you realize that he had a very vast criminal network going on. Hugely diversified and involved in all kinds of stuff. Not only that, but he had a pretty hefty roster of killers at disposal even at that time. Vena, Panozzo, Russell, Schweis, and others we may not even know about. I would think that would give someone a lot of power.

[PolackTony]

Another interesting topic during this entire late 90s/early 2000s/family secrets time period to me was always Lombardo. The common consensus here is that he had some type of senior advisor or what other families would call “Consigliere” type position.

He is interesting to me because the more that you read about him the more you realize that he had a very vast criminal network going on. Hugely diversified and involved in all kinds of stuff. Not only that, but he had a pretty hefty roster of killers at disposal even at that time. Vena, Panozzo, Russell, Schweis, and others we may not even know about. I would think that would give someone a lot of power.

To add to this, UIC criminologist John Hagedorn has claimed that, per accounts from made Outfit members that Hagedorn cites as pseudonymous research informants, Lombardo played an active role in the 90s (yes, while still under parole) in directing the C-Notes to influence the "Tabla" (board of directors) of the Latin Folks organization within the IL prison system (Statesville) via their alliance with the Spanish Cobras as part of the "Insane" faction of the Latin Folks. Per Hagedorn's sources, Lombardo and other senior Outfit leaders realized that as the Italians were declining demographically, they needed to develop a proxy organization that the mob could continue to influence and direct.

Another interesting potential layer is that Lombardo, in one of his letters when he was on the lam from FS, referenced patronizing the now-shuttered "Catfish Corner", a very popular soul food restaurant and blues performance venue located at Madison and California, owned by corrupt former Westside alderman (convicted of bribery) Wallace Davis, Jr. It's my understanding that Catfish Corner functioned as a critical node for the "who's who" of black leaders and power brokers on the Westside and served as the informal/de facto office for US Rep Danny Davis (whose official office was down the block). Now, Lombardo may very well of course have simply enjoyed the food and music. But it warrants consideration that Lombardo apparently considered Wallace a friend and frequented the establishment. No way the black leaders (and gangsters) who socialized and convened there didn't know who Joey was. That Grand Ave might be cozy with powerful people in the black Westside may also help to shed light on Chuckie Russell's alleged narcotics activities and possible hit/s.

[Antiliar]

To add to this, UIC criminologist John Hagedorn has claimed that, per accounts from made Outfit members that Hagedorn cites as pseudonymous research informants, Lombardo played an active role in the 90s (yes, while still under parole) in directing the C-Notes to influence the "Tabla" (board of directors) of the Latin Folks organization within the IL prison system (Statesville) via their alliance with the Spanish Cobras as part of the "Insane" faction of the Latin Folks. Per Hagedorn's sources, Lombardo and other senior Outfit leaders realized that as the Italians were declining demographically, they needed to develop a proxy organization that the mob could continue to influence and direct.

Another interesting potential layer is that Lombardo, in one of his letters when he was on the lam from FS, referenced patronizing the now-shuttered "Catfish Corner", a very popular soul food restaurant and blues performance venue located at Madison and California, owned by corrupt former Westside alderman (convicted of bribery) Wallace Davis, Jr. It's my understanding that Catfish Corner functioned as a critical node for the "who's who" of black leaders and power brokers on the Westside and served as the informal/de facto office for US Rep Danny Davis (whose official office was down the block). Now, Lombardo may very well of course have simply enjoyed the food and music. But it warrants consideration that Lombardo apparently considered Wallace a friend and frequented the establishment. No way the black leaders (and gangsters) who socialized and convened there didn't know who Joey was. That Grand Ave might be cozy with powerful people in the black Westside may also help to shed light on Chuckie Russell's alleged narcotics activities and possible hit/s.

Interesting. Did not know that. The only other inside info on Lombardo's Outfit role during this period comes from Pat Spilotro, when Lombardo told him he had been shelved. Of course we don't know if Lombardo lied to Spilotro, but we do know that others were put in charge of Grand Avenue when Lombardo went away (Eboli) and after he returned (Centracchio, Vena). Maybe Lombardo resumed his role after Centracchio died until FS. We don't know until more info gets released.

[Snakes]

To add to this, UIC criminologist John Hagedorn has claimed that, per accounts from made Outfit members that Hagedorn cites as pseudonymous research informants, Lombardo played an active role in the 90s (yes, while still under parole) in directing the C-Notes to influence the "Tabla" (board of directors) of the Latin Folks organization within the IL prison system (Statesville) via their alliance with the Spanish Cobras as part of the "Insane" faction of the Latin Folks. Per Hagedorn's sources, Lombardo and other senior Outfit leaders realized that as the Italians were declining demographically, they needed to develop a proxy organization that the mob could continue to influence and direct.

Another interesting potential layer is that Lombardo, in one of his letters when he was on the lam from FS, referenced patronizing the now-shuttered "Catfish Corner", a very popular soul food restaurant and blues performance venue located at Madison and California, owned by corrupt former Westside alderman (convicted of bribery) Wallace Davis, Jr. It's my understanding that Catfish Corner functioned as a critical node for the "who's who" of black leaders and power brokers on the Westside and served as the informal/de facto office for US Rep Danny Davis (whose official office was down the block). Now, Lombardo may very well of course have simply enjoyed the food and music. But it warrants consideration that Lombardo apparently considered Wallace a friend and frequented the establishment. No way the black leaders (and gangsters) who socialized and convened there didn't know who Joey was. That Grand Ave might be cozy with powerful people in the black Westside may also help to shed light on Chuckie Russell's alleged narcotics activities and possible hit/s.

Interesting. Did not know that. The only other inside info on Lombardo's Outfit role during this period comes from Pat Spilotro, when Lombardo told him he had been shelved. Of course we don't know if Lombardo lied to Spilotro, but we do know that others were put in charge of Grand Avenue when Lombardo went away (Eboli) and after he returned (Centracchio, Vena). Maybe Lombardo resumed his role after Centracchio died until FS. We don't know until more info gets released.

Marcello made it sound like Lombardo had a bunch going on in the prison transcripts. Sometimes it was hard to follow but I seem to remember him saying Lombardo had a lot of "schemes" or "scams" going on.

[Coloboy]

Another interesting topic during this entire late 90s/early 2000s/family secrets time period to me was always Lombardo. The common consensus here is that he had some type of senior advisor or what other families would call “Consigliere” type position.

He is interesting to me because the more that you read about him the more you realize that he had a very vast criminal network going on. Hugely diversified and involved in all kinds of stuff. Not only that, but he had a pretty hefty roster of killers at disposal even at that time. Vena, Panozzo, Russell, Schweis, and others we may not even know about. I would think that would give someone a lot of power.

To add to this, UIC criminologist John Hagedorn has claimed that, per accounts from made Outfit members that Hagedorn cites as pseudonymous research informants, Lombardo played an active role in the 90s (yes, while still under parole) in directing the C-Notes to influence the "Tabla" (board of directors) of the Latin Folks organization within the IL prison system (Statesville) via their alliance with the Spanish Cobras as part of the "Insane" faction of the Latin Folks. Per Hagedorn's sources, Lombardo and other senior Outfit leaders realized that as the Italians were declining demographically, they needed to develop a proxy organization that the mob could continue to influence and direct.

Another interesting potential layer is that Lombardo, in one of his letters when he was on the lam from FS, referenced patronizing the now-shuttered "Catfish Corner", a very popular soul food restaurant and blues performance venue located at Madison and California, owned by corrupt former Westside alderman (convicted of bribery) Wallace Davis, Jr. It's my understanding that Catfish Corner functioned as a critical node for the "who's who" of black leaders and power brokers on the Westside and served as the informal/de facto office for US Rep Danny Davis (whose official office was down the block). Now, Lombardo may very well of course have simply enjoyed the food and music. But it warrants consideration that Lombardo apparently considered Wallace a friend and frequented the establishment. No way the black leaders (and gangsters) who socialized and convened there didn't know who Joey was. That Grand Ave might be cozy with powerful people in the black Westside may also help to shed light on Chuckie Russell's alleged narcotics activities and possible hit/s.

Very interesting stuff, and seems plausible. Those old time guys knew how to forge alliances, especially with corrupt politicians and power brokers.

I'd have a hard time believing anyone else was truly in charge on Grand once Lombardo was out in the 90's. He obviously had to lay very low and stay away from direct involvement, but from most sources you can obtain the consensus is he was a die hard old school gangster committed to the life. Cozzo, Vena and others may have been the face on the street, but I have to think the clown was the real power. He had that crew forever, and his ties on grand went way way back.

[Frank]

Chiaramonti was extorting the Daddinos. Rudy Fratto complained to the big bosses. Wasnt there something about Carlisi hated the Clown and Clown was shelved until Carlisi died?

[Villain]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thanks. Btw Sarno's crew also entered MP right?

I think Sarno's crew essentially moved in and took everything. Remember when Marcello (who was Carlisi's underboss) was on wiretap with his brother asking about Sarno and Cataudella who he called "Mutt and Jeff." What I don't understand is whether Sarno was essentially organizing a coup against Marcello and the old guard prior to Family Secrets by taking out his main guys like Zizzo and Chiaramonte, or whether this was being done with Marcello's permission and his guys simply weren't backing down. I tend to wonder if Inenendino and DeLaurentis were somewhat pulling the strings here and where DiFronzo stood in this.

Thanks again.

It seems that the Buccieri-Torello-LaPietra-Ferriola-Infelice-Monteleone-Sarno faction never really stopped spreading their ops in other crews' territories since the late 1960s, and in the end or after 40 years they probably fulfilled their plan.

[PolackTony]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thanks. Btw Sarno's crew also entered MP right?

I think Sarno's crew essentially moved in and took everything. Remember when Marcello (who was Carlisi's underboss) was on wiretap with his brother asking about Sarno and Cataudella who he called "Mutt and Jeff." What I don't understand is whether Sarno was essentially organizing a coup against Marcello and the old guard prior to Family Secrets by taking out his main guys like Zizzo and Chiaramonte, or whether this was being done with Marcello's permission and his guys simply weren't backing down. I tend to wonder if Inenendino and DeLaurentis were somewhat pulling the strings here and where DiFronzo stood in this.

Thanks again.

It seems that the Buccieri-Torello-LaPietra-Ferriola-Infelice-Monteleone-Sarno faction never really stopped spreading their ops in other crews' territories since the late 1960s, and in the end or after 40 years they probably fulfilled their plan.

In the long term view, “Taylor St” has finally completed its takeover of the Outfit. What’s left today are the successors to the old Battaglia and Buccieri crews. Even if Chinatown still exists as a crew it’s of course been a satellite of the Buccieri faction for decades anyway, and what’s left of EP is likely either under Grand or so closely aligned that they’re essentially the same group.

[PolackTony]

Another interesting topic during this entire late 90s/early 2000s/family secrets time period to me was always Lombardo. The common consensus here is that he had some type of senior advisor or what other families would call “Consigliere” type position.

He is interesting to me because the more that you read about him the more you realize that he had a very vast criminal network going on. Hugely diversified and involved in all kinds of stuff. Not only that, but he had a pretty hefty roster of killers at disposal even at that time. Vena, Panozzo, Russell, Schweis, and others we may not even know about. I would think that would give someone a lot of power.

To add to this, UIC criminologist John Hagedorn has claimed that, per accounts from made Outfit members that Hagedorn cites as pseudonymous research informants, Lombardo played an active role in the 90s (yes, while still under parole) in directing the C-Notes to influence the "Tabla" (board of directors) of the Latin Folks organization within the IL prison system (Statesville) via their alliance with the Spanish Cobras as part of the "Insane" faction of the Latin Folks. Per Hagedorn's sources, Lombardo and other senior Outfit leaders realized that as the Italians were declining demographically, they needed to develop a proxy organization that the mob could continue to influence and direct.

Another interesting potential layer is that Lombardo, in one of his letters when he was on the lam from FS, referenced patronizing the now-shuttered "Catfish Corner", a very popular soul food restaurant and blues performance venue located at Madison and California, owned by corrupt former Westside alderman (convicted of bribery) Wallace Davis, Jr. It's my understanding that Catfish Corner functioned as a critical node for the "who's who" of black leaders and power brokers on the Westside and served as the informal/de facto office for US Rep Danny Davis (whose official office was down the block). Now, Lombardo may very well of course have simply enjoyed the food and music. But it warrants consideration that Lombardo apparently considered Wallace a friend and frequented the establishment. No way the black leaders (and gangsters) who socialized and convened there didn't know who Joey was. That Grand Ave might be cozy with powerful people in the black Westside may also help to shed light on Chuckie Russell's alleged narcotics activities and possible hit/s.

Very interesting stuff, and seems plausible. Those old time guys knew how to forge alliances, especially with corrupt politicians and power brokers.

I'd have a hard time believing anyone else was truly in charge on Grand once Lombardo was out in the 90's. He obviously had to lay very low and stay away from direct involvement, but from most sources you can obtain the consensus is he was a die hard old school gangster committed to the life. Cozzo, Vena and others may have been the face on the street, but I have to think the clown was the real power. He had that crew forever, and his ties on grand went way way back.

Another point to remember is that Spina was busted for chauffeuring Lombardo around while on the city’s payroll in the 90s. Spina was driving Joey somewhere, and I doubt that it was just over to Joe Boston’s for beef sandwiches. As has been noted here on the boards before, Spina was a perfect driver/lackey/liaison for Lombardo while the latter was on parole, as Spina didn’t have a felony record.

[Villain]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thanks. Btw Sarno's crew also entered MP right?

I think Sarno's crew essentially moved in and took everything. Remember when Marcello (who was Carlisi's underboss) was on wiretap with his brother asking about Sarno and Cataudella who he called "Mutt and Jeff." What I don't understand is whether Sarno was essentially organizing a coup against Marcello and the old guard prior to Family Secrets by taking out his main guys like Zizzo and Chiaramonte, or whether this was being done with Marcello's permission and his guys simply weren't backing down. I tend to wonder if Inenendino and DeLaurentis were somewhat pulling the strings here and where DiFronzo stood in this.

Thanks again.

It seems that the Buccieri-Torello-LaPietra-Ferriola-Infelice-Monteleone-Sarno faction never really stopped spreading their ops in other crews' territories since the late 1960s, and in the end or after 40 years they probably fulfilled their plan.

In the long term view, “Taylor St” has finally completed its takeover of the Outfit. What’s left today are the successors to the old Battaglia and Buccieri crews. Even if Chinatown still exists as a crew it’s of course been a satellite of the Buccieri faction for decades anyway, and what’s left of EP is likely either under Grand or so closely aligned that they’re essentially the same group.

I agree.

[Antiliar]

Chiaramonti was extorting the Daddinos. Rudy Fratto complained to the big bosses. Wasnt there something about Carlisi hated the Clown and Clown was shelved until Carlisi died?

If you remember where you saw this, please update.