General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

This is indeed interesting news if true. I'd assumed that Joey A had taken over for Johnny in any involvement by this point. Panozzo was of course representing Vena. Hollingshead's presence suggests that he may have moved in higher circles than we assume, although he may have only been there as Panozzo's driver or bodyguard of course. But the fact that he was ever present with DiFronzo and LT is something.

[PolackTony]

True that a lot of top guys have been hit hard. With that being said, a lot have also stayed out. Difronzo got out on appeal and stayed out until his death, along with brother Pete who was considered top hierarchy. the builder never went to prison and he has long been considered in the top hierarchy. You already mentioned Monteleone. I do wonder if he would have been indicted in Family Secrets if he was alive

If you go back to the time of Lombardo being originally indicted for trying to bribe a Senator to when Carlisi is convicted. This is a devastating time period for the Outfit, with a long list of convictions

Yes and Greylord, Silver Shovel, were also extremely damaging. This was the end of the "Chicago Crime Syndicate" with its longstanding ability to corrupt the machinery of the courts and city government.

[Villain]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

[Frank]

This is indeed interesting news if true. I'd assumed that Joey A had taken over for Johnny in any involvement by this point. Panozzo was of course representing Vena. Hollingshead's presence suggests that he may have moved in higher circles than we assume, although he may have only been there as Panozzo's driver or bodyguard of course. But the fact that he was ever present with DiFronzo and LT is something.

Yes and remember an informant said later on that Sarno kicked up to DiFronzo

[PolackTony]

This is indeed interesting news if true. I'd assumed that Joey A had taken over for Johnny in any involvement by this point. Panozzo was of course representing Vena. Hollingshead's presence suggests that he may have moved in higher circles than we assume, although he may have only been there as Panozzo's driver or bodyguard of course. But the fact that he was ever present with DiFronzo and LT is something.

Yes and remember an informant said later on that Sarno kicked up to DiFronzo

Yeah, I had assumed that DiFronzo was still titular boss and receiving tribute, while basically going through Joey A for everything.

[Patrickgold]

I would be very surprised if Hollinshead met with Difronzo. He might have been in the same restaurant but I doubt they were meeting. I would even be surprised if he was meeting with Bobby Panozzo. Difronzo was not a hard guy to run into. He was always at the loon fridays and was at chickies daily until his death

[SolarSolano]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

[Frank]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thats a good question what year did this surveillance take place. I was assuming it was when Marcello was in jail for Family Secrets trial

[Villain]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thanks. Btw Sarno's crew also entered MP right?

[Snakes]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thats a good question what year did this surveillance take place. I was assuming it was when Marcello was in jail for Family Secrets trial

Sounds like it was 2006 if the description is accurate. This is also the only source for this meeting: https://gangsterreport.com/gr-exclusive ... n-on-vena/

The female Hollingshead popped up on the FBI’s radar almost immediately in 2005 when their courtship started – her picture was snapped by federal surveillance units at dinners and lunches in Illinois and on vacation with a number of major-league Chicago mobsters, Vena, Panozzo, Spina, longtime don John (Johnny No Nose) DiFronzo, former acting boss Michael (Fat Mike) Sarno and slain former underboss Anthony (Little Tony) Zizzo, among them. One obtained surveillance log cites both Hollingsheads attendance at a dinner in Downtown Chicago with Vena, Panozzo, DiFronzo and Zizzo in the weeks leading up to Little Tony’s disappearance exactly nine years ago this week.

I forgot to mention that it sounds like Hollingshead's wife was in attendance at this meeting so it was either a social gathering or a front to discuss business. However, if someone sees DiFronzo, Zizzo, Vena, and Panozzo at dinner -- woman or no woman -- they are going to think something is up.

Other surveillance records purportedly show evidence of Hollingshead traveling to Vegas with Vena, Panozzo, and Mike Sarno.

[SolarSolano]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thanks. Btw Sarno's crew also entered MP right?

I think Sarno's crew essentially moved in and took everything. Remember when Marcello (who was Carlisi's underboss) was on wiretap with his brother asking about Sarno and Cataudella who he called "Mutt and Jeff." What I don't understand is whether Sarno was essentially organizing a coup against Marcello and the old guard prior to Family Secrets by taking out his main guys like Zizzo and Chiaramonte, or whether this was being done with Marcello's permission and his guys simply weren't backing down. I tend to wonder if Inenendino and DeLaurentis were somewhat pulling the strings here and where DiFronzo stood in this.

[Snakes]

From what I understand based on the Marcello transcripts and the mysterious informant, it seems like Zizzo was having to fix something Sarno and Cataudella messed up. I think Cicero and Melrose Park were under the same management around 2000 because so many guys were in prison. The incident referred to above was probably Zizzo having to correct something Sarno and Cataudella did while he was locked up. Tornabene was acting boss of the Outfit (probably for Marcello) after Monteleone died, so he fits in somewhere in all of this.

[Snakes]

Grand and EP were always connected but im also confused about Zizzo...their mutual interests in MP maybe?

I think it had to do with Zizzo being the first boss back from Carlisi's old crew. Carlisi and DiFRonzo were partners - I think Carlisi's crew and Infelice's crew were competing and when Carlisi'd people went away, Infelice's crew via Sarno etc. moved in under DiFRonzo's blessing. I think DiFronzo may have been trying to keep peace between warring Cicero crews.

Wonder if that surveillance was prior to Chiaramonte hit or afterwards?

Thanks. Btw Sarno's crew also entered MP right?

I think Sarno's crew essentially moved in and took everything. Remember when Marcello (who was Carlisi's underboss) was on wiretap with his brother asking about Sarno and Cataudella who he called "Mutt and Jeff." What I don't understand is whether Sarno was essentially organizing a coup against Marcello and the old guard prior to Family Secrets by taking out his main guys like Zizzo and Chiaramonte, or whether this was being done with Marcello's permission and his guys simply weren't backing down. I tend to wonder if Inenendino and DeLaurentis were somewhat pulling the strings here and where DiFronzo stood in this.

I think Chiaramonte just pissed off the wrong people. I doubt Marcello shed many tears when he went. When Zizzo was killed, Marcello was already done in by Family Secrets so the fear of retaliation was lower. There are indications that Sarno got permission from either DiFronzo or Andriacchi (directly or indirectly) to get rid of Zizzo.

[Coloboy]

Villian others have disscussed this, but my take on that period is the following. Obviously I am filling in large gaps of knowledge here....

IMO Difronzo was "chariman of the board" until the early 2010's at least until his health started going downhill. Remember, we have him meeting with at the very least the EP guys in 2009 as verified by Chuck Goudie.

Post family secrets (2005-2006), I think Difronzo and whoever else you consider top leadership (The builder and Tornabene?), approved Sarnos crew to take over day to day management of the organization from the Marcello/Zizzo faction. This did not go over well with Zizzo, and thus he disappears.

With Chiaramonti it seems he was on bad paper with several crews and had pissed a lot of people off. I have a theory that he was pissed about not being named capo on 26th when it went to Caruso, but that is speculation. I don't think Sarno was acting on his own on that hit, it was approved by the elders at that time who would have been Difronzo, Lombardo, Builder, and Tornabene.

[Snakes]

Villian others have disscussed this, but my take on that period is the following. Obviously I am filling in large gaps of knowledge here....

IMO Difronzo was "chariman of the board" until the early 2010's at least until his health started going downhill. Remember, we have him meeting with at the very least the EP guys in 2009 as verified by Chuck Goudie.

Post family secrets (2005-2006), I think Difronzo and whoever else you consider top leadership (The builder and Tornabene?), approved Sarnos crew to take over day to day management of the organization from the Marcello/Zizzo faction. This did not go over well with Zizzo, and thus he disappears.

With Chiaramonti it seems he was on bad paper with several crews and had pissed a lot of people off. I have a theory that he was pissed about not being named capo on 26th when it went to Caruso, but that is speculation. I don't think Sarno was acting on his own on that hit, it was approved by the elders at that time who would have been Difronzo, Lombardo, Builder, and Tornabene.

An FBI source stated that Zizzo was having to "correct" something that Sarno and Cataudella "fucked up." I'm assuming this led to bad blood. The right people saw it Sarno's way and not Zizzo's, which is surprising to me. Sarno has often been pegged as a slob and being in the right place at the right time but it appears he was a more serious guy than a lot of people give him credit for.