Unpopular opinion. Feds don’t know nearly as much about present day active LCN families as they did in the old days.

[Wiseguy]

I agree. The cartels would prefer to have LCN families as their ny connection, because no other organized crime groups in NYC have the structure and discipline as LCN.

Is this true, though? Have we seen any cartel/LCN connections in recent years?

If the Colombian and Mexican cartels preferred to deal with the LCN as their main wholesalers, why haven't they done so over the last 40 years? Sure, they'll sell to whoever is buying but you can read any recent DEA threat assessment or New York/New Jersey HIDTA report to see they, by and large, wholesale through other Hispanic groups.

[CabriniGreen]

I agree. The cartels would prefer to have LCN families as their ny connection, because no other organized crime groups in NYC have the structure and discipline as LCN.

Is this true, though? Have we seen any cartel/LCN connections in recent years?

American Cosa Nostra... no. In New York? Definitely no.....

In Italy? Yes.
I posted this in the news from Italy section....

https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations ... ard-europe

Its about the Sinaloa cartel setting up an "office" in Catania, Sicily.......

[Teddy Persico]

I was referring to American LCN, but a good read regardless.

[newera_212]

The gentrification of not only neighborhoods, but even the damn internet, have cut into these guys pockets. Look at what sports betting has turned into and where it's heading. Yeah, betting on credit is great. Supporting an old time pen-and-paper phone bookie you've known your whole life is great. But when Fan Duel starts letting you bet pitch-by-pitch on a game, or when you're able to parlay literally 30 ridiculous events like player props combined with game outcomes for +300000 odds at the press of a button, ultimately it's over for the small guy.

The niche these guys service in terms of 'protection', providing money, providing betting services, etc. has gotten dramatically smaller over the years.

Not saying the legalization of pot, or Draft Kings, or the fact that international conglomerates have comfortably moved into the development & service industries throughout NY is going to completely wipe these guys out - but it really does have to hurt.

As sick as it sounds they really might have to start getting violent again in order to get ahead. Literally hold on to whatever they have left with muscle

Pen and paper bookie? When are you talking about? The mob has been using online gambling for years now. Betting on credit and no taxes on winnings.

It was a figure of speech. Even the mob's online options fall extremely short in comparison of the big tech behind Fan Duel and Draft Kings. There is no comparison. The little off shore websites that these guys use for PPH are miles behind the corporate book's apps.

No matter how big these guys are at the end of the day they still operate with limits. Like I said, the big corporate apps let you do insanely wild things that no little BetEagle or Red44 type PPH site would ever let you do. The only benefit to not using these apps are credit, I guess maybe taxes and consumer loyalty if you have a good relationship with your bookie (the average better does, I would venture to say).

The tech and options behind the corporate books, their sheer ease of use, the promotions they can afford to run, etc. are drawing in new casual betters by the minute. Although as the other poster after me pointed out, that may actually benefit the Mob -eventually- Someone gets more and more 'serious' about betting, tired of having to pay before they place their wager, etc. and could turn to an "old school" (i.e. mob) bookie

When these vices are gentrified the average person is going to go the corporate route most of the time whether it's drugs, betting, sex if they ever legalize what they now call "sex work", everything. Walking into a store to take your pick of a variety of different marijuana strains beats having to wait for some guy to show up. Being able to do live, in-game parlays with multiple legs and get paid out that night beats not being able to do that, and only having the option to straight bet and wait until that week's settle up day. It's the ease of use, customer service, all sorts of things as to why these big companies *could* crush these guys.

[Wiseguy]

It was a figure of speech. Even the mob's online options fall extremely short in comparison of the big tech behind Fan Duel and Draft Kings. There is no comparison. The little off shore websites that these guys use for PPH are miles behind the corporate book's apps.

No matter how big these guys are at the end of the day they still operate with limits. Like I said, the big corporate apps let you do insanely wild things that no little BetEagle or Red44 type PPH site would ever let you do. The only benefit to not using these apps are credit, I guess maybe taxes and consumer loyalty if you have a good relationship with your bookie (the average better does, I would venture to say).

The tech and options behind the corporate books, their sheer ease of use, the promotions they can afford to run, etc. are drawing in new casual betters by the minute. Although as the other poster after me pointed out, that may actually benefit the Mob -eventually- Someone gets more and more 'serious' about betting, tired of having to pay before they place their wager, etc. and could turn to an "old school" (i.e. mob) bookie

When these vices are gentrified the average person is going to go the corporate route most of the time whether it's drugs, betting, sex if they ever legalize what they now call "sex work", everything. Walking into a store to take your pick of a variety of different marijuana strains beats having to wait for some guy to show up. Being able to do live, in-game parlays with multiple legs and get paid out that night beats not being able to do that, and only having the option to straight bet and wait until that week's settle up day. It's the ease of use, customer service, all sorts of things as to why these big companies *could* crush these guys.

These gamblers flocking to legal books like DraftKings, FanDuel, etc., are they long time gamblers who have used a bookie for years or newer ones? I can only guess at this point but I think it would be more the latter.

In other words, if somebody decides to start betting on sports because it's now legal, the stigma is gone, and there's an app on their phone, they likely weren't betting with the mob to begin with. So the mob hasn't really lost that guy as a customer.

However, as others have pointed out, the increase in the number of overall gamblers, as a result of legalized sports betting, may end up resulting in a net gain for the mob - or at least helping to mitigate any losses - if some of those bettors do end drifting to an illegal bookie for whatever reason.

It may ultimately come down to servicing different types of bettors and what they value. I would think the legal market would cater to the more casual bettor who likes all the perks you described above. The illegal market would cater to the more addictive bettor who does not want to put money up front, deal with taxes, etc.

That's just my guess. Time will tell.

[Cheech]

It was a figure of speech. Even the mob's online options fall extremely short in comparison of the big tech behind Fan Duel and Draft Kings. There is no comparison. The little off shore websites that these guys use for PPH are miles behind the corporate book's apps.

No matter how big these guys are at the end of the day they still operate with limits. Like I said, the big corporate apps let you do insanely wild things that no little BetEagle or Red44 type PPH site would ever let you do. The only benefit to not using these apps are credit, I guess maybe taxes and consumer loyalty if you have a good relationship with your bookie (the average better does, I would venture to say).

The tech and options behind the corporate books, their sheer ease of use, the promotions they can afford to run, etc. are drawing in new casual betters by the minute. Although as the other poster after me pointed out, that may actually benefit the Mob -eventually- Someone gets more and more 'serious' about betting, tired of having to pay before they place their wager, etc. and could turn to an "old school" (i.e. mob) bookie

When these vices are gentrified the average person is going to go the corporate route most of the time whether it's drugs, betting, sex if they ever legalize what they now call "sex work", everything. Walking into a store to take your pick of a variety of different marijuana strains beats having to wait for some guy to show up. Being able to do live, in-game parlays with multiple legs and get paid out that night beats not being able to do that, and only having the option to straight bet and wait until that week's settle up day. It's the ease of use, customer service, all sorts of things as to why these big companies *could* crush these guys.

These gamblers flocking to legal books like DraftKings, FanDuel, etc., are they long time gamblers who have used a bookie for years or newer ones? I can only guess at this point but I think it would be more the latter.

In other words, if somebody decides to start betting on sports because it's now legal, the stigma is gone, and there's an app on their phone, they likely weren't betting with the mob to begin with. So the mob hasn't really lost that guy as a customer.

However, as others have pointed out, the increase in the number of overall gamblers, as a result of legalized sports betting, may end up resulting in a net gain for the mob - or at least helping to mitigate any losses - if some of those bettors do end drifting to an illegal bookie for whatever reason.

It may ultimately come down to servicing different types of bettors and what they value. I would think the legal market would cater to the more casual bettor who likes all the perks you described above. The illegal market would cater to the more addictive bettor who does not want to put money up front, deal with taxes, etc.

That's just my guess. Time will tell.

you're both right

[West Coast1]

I actually think they know a lot these days because people talk, they don't have to put in all the man hours when they get it without working.

I'm sure they have tons of info, they just don't act on it because it's really not hurting anyone and or the government is in the same business.

If people are getting hurt they get involved

[Nick Prango]

I actually think they know a lot these days because people talk, they don't have to put in all the man hours when they get it without working.

I'm sure they have tons of info, they just don't act on it because it's really not hurting anyone and or the government is in the same business.

If people are getting hurt they get involved

With every murder comes “heat", meaning local police and FBI investigations.

[West Coast1]

I actually think they know a lot these days because people talk, they don't have to put in all the man hours when they get it without working.

I'm sure they have tons of info, they just don't act on it because it's really not hurting anyone and or the government is in the same business.

If people are getting hurt they get involved

With every murder comes “heat", meaning local police and FBI investigations.

yes also lethal drugs

[richy67]

I would assume the mobs plan was to stay away from the more serious crimes and therefore LE cant justify spending money on them while ignoring all the others who are commiting serious stuff, its evident by the lessening of agents its been working? However its if upur men on the street are still operating under the radar and making money(which you would assume they are) is the real tell whether this strategy has worked- apologies if this is a bit obvious, but its really down to how much street power LCN still has becomes the crux of whether its working or not, and that seems to be widely debated on here and elsewhere.