Unpopular opinion. Feds don’t know nearly as much about present day active LCN families as they did in the old days.

[Wiseguy]

My guess is in the next 15 years with all these young guys coming in it will basically be drugs only with very little emphasis on everything else just like how it is in Italy.Can you imagine the 700+ made guys in new york all moving weight.Youll have guys making millions in a few months rather than running a sports book or loanshark operation which they take much more work.Yes people will get busted but always remember it took them over a decade to arresst big meech and he literally was taunting them in music videos and billboards.So imagine what resources and time they would have to make cases on 700 made guys plus 1000s of associates.

I'm usually not one for predictions but, if legalized sports betting has as big an impact as some here believe it will (jury is still out for me), I think that will basically wipe out the small families left and you'll see the NY families downsize. With the removal of their #1 racket, I doubt they would be able to sustain their current membership; even if they got deeper in drugs. In other words, whatever ground they could gain in narcotics wouldn't be enough to replace what was lost.

[bluehouse]

My guess is in the next 15 years with all these young guys coming in it will basically be drugs only with very little emphasis on everything else just like how it is in Italy.Can you imagine the 700+ made guys in new york all moving weight.Youll have guys making millions in a few months rather than running a sports book or loanshark operation which they take much more work.Yes people will get busted but always remember it took them over a decade to arresst big meech and he literally was taunting them in music videos and billboards.So imagine what resources and time they would have to make cases on 700 made guys plus 1000s of associates.

I'm usually not one for predictions but, if legalized sports betting has as big an impact as some here believe it will (jury is still out for me), I think that will basically wipe out the small families left and you'll see the NY families downsize. With the removal of their #1 racket, I doubt they would be able to sustain their current membership; even if they got deeper in drugs. In other words, whatever ground they could gain in narcotics wouldn't be enough to replace what was lost.

I understand what your saying it will be a huge blow to loose their no 1 racket,but it will be replaced with a much bigger money maker.Also the 5 families could easily take over NY drug market because if they start doing deals with the cartels the cartels would prefer to have them as their ny connection than having to deal with im assuming latin gangs like they did in chicago.

[Nick Prango]

The gentrification of not only neighborhoods, but even the damn internet, have cut into these guys pockets. Look at what sports betting has turned into and where it's heading. Yeah, betting on credit is great. Supporting an old time pen-and-paper phone bookie you've known your whole life is great. But when Fan Duel starts letting you bet pitch-by-pitch on a game, or when you're able to parlay literally 30 ridiculous events like player props combined with game outcomes for +300000 odds at the press of a button, ultimately it's over for the small guy.

The niche these guys service in terms of 'protection', providing money, providing betting services, etc. has gotten dramatically smaller over the years.

Not saying the legalization of pot, or Draft Kings, or the fact that international conglomerates have comfortably moved into the development & service industries throughout NY is going to completely wipe these guys out - but it really does have to hurt.

As sick as it sounds they really might have to start getting violent again in order to get ahead. Literally hold on to whatever they have left with muscle

Another thing to consider is that the legalization of these former vices also creates new markets and grows existing ones. Everyone's gambling online now, but instead of being a stunad and paying taxes, my cousin knows a guy, etc etc. No taxes, plus I get to feel like I'm in a Sopranos episode. Legal weed comes to the area, why go to the dispensary when your buddy from HS is moving weed with his crew and business is booming. So while legalization may lead to more intense competition, it also leads to growing social acceptance and proliferation. In specific community niches, OC will be there to fill these demands via black and grey market routes.

You are right. More legal gambling is good for the mob:illicit gambling rackets , not bad. Legal gambling does not take away from their gambling rackets. The scale effect applies here not the substitution effect. More legal gambling = more gamblers in society. The mob is always going to have their customers because of the benefits that comes with gambling under the table. This notion that gamblers wouldn’t go with the illicit option because there’s a legal option is false and misguided. Gambling being legitimate and having more prominence is good for the mob, theres money more to make. more “degenerate gamblers” , good for loan sharking.

[Nick Prango]

I agree that American LCN golden days are long gone. But LCN still has strongholds in New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, New England and Chicago.

The greater New York metropolitan area, yes. Elsewhere, I don't think so.

It will never be like the 1970’s for LCN again, but personally i think that they have more power in 2021 than they did in 2005–6. Recently I watched an interview with retired FBI agent Joaquín "Jack" García and he thinks that there has been somewhat of a renaissance of LCN the last 15 years as law enforcement turn their eye towards terrorism and cyber crime.

There may be some truth to that if you're specially talking about New York. In 2016, the head of the FBI's Criminal Division in New York, who supervises the OC squads, said he believed the city's families has quietly staged a comeback and were now more powerful than they had been in years. I think that's plausible if we're talking from the early 2000's and on, but not before. That same year, another supervisory special agent said the New York families, while not growing, were sustaining.

A 2018 analysis reported:

* LCN families – Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese – are still the predominant symbols of organised crime in the city, despite their structures and reach undergoing an apparently steady decline since the 1990s.

* While it was popularly believed that La Cosa Nostra was a thing of the past or that it is now a shadow of what is used to be, in New York this is not true,. The five families, at different degrees, are still extremely strong and join funds, forces and resources with old and new partners. Local and federal authorities maintained surveillance on all of the five families, since – apart from the Colombo syndicate – they have all re-emerged since the late 2000s as major underworld players.

* Even as LCN’s influence shrinks in New York, authorities consulted agree that it is still the most successful model of organized crime in the city. Many organised crime groups – different in size, reach, ethnicity, and capabilities – are active in New York, but traditional Italian-American criminal families such as LCN enjoy a particular status built on reputation, contacts, violence, and territorial control.

* LCN families in New York are embedded in the economic fabric of the city, as both underworld actors and legal investors and power brokers, placing them at the top of threat assessments.

So LCN is still the dominant OC group in NYC. Personally i think that no group has come close to them, because their criminal activities are pretty diversified. This gives them a wider array of influence than other ethnic OC groups and street gangs that focus on drugs, guns or whatever else. Unlike a lot of those other crime groups, the Mafia on NYC has is imbedded in the legitimate world and has been for almost 100 years. Whether it be public corruption (police, politicians, unions) or particular industries (food distribution, trash hauling, construction, etc) as well as particular niches or trades within those industries (windows, drywall, restaurants, etc.) You have these relationships spanning generations where things aren't seen as much as crime as cutting corners or looking out for yourself or your friends because "everyone does it".

What's the difference between a development company donating to a politician's campaign in return for being awarded land deals and a person associated with the mob giving someone cash to get a city contract? The illusion of legitimacy?

[Wiseguy]

I understand what your saying it will be a huge blow to loose their no 1 racket,but it will be replaced with a much bigger money maker.Also the 5 families could easily take over NY drug market because if they start doing deals with the cartels the cartels would prefer to have them as their ny connection than having to deal with im assuming latin gangs like they did in chicago.

I don't think so. Drugs may be more lucrative than gambling but the mob makes more money from gambling because it has a significantly bigger market share in that than narcotics. The LCN is the top dog when it comes to illegal sports betting in the greater New York metropolitan area.

However, when it comes to drugs, the mob is more marginalized. The Colombians and Mexicans control the production so they control the supply to the NY region. And because they share a common language and similar heritage, they will want to use Dominicans as their main wholesalers (like they do now) before anyone else.

[Nick Prango]

My guess is in the next 15 years with all these young guys coming in it will basically be drugs only with very little emphasis on everything else just like how it is in Italy.Can you imagine the 700+ made guys in new york all moving weight.Youll have guys making millions in a few months rather than running a sports book or loanshark operation which they take much more work.Yes people will get busted but always remember it took them over a decade to arresst big meech and he literally was taunting them in music videos and billboards.So imagine what resources and time they would have to make cases on 700 made guys plus 1000s of associates.

I'm usually not one for predictions but, if legalized sports betting has as big an impact as some here believe it will (jury is still out for me), I think that will basically wipe out the small families left and you'll see the NY families downsize. With the removal of their #1 racket, I doubt they would be able to sustain their current membership; even if they got deeper in drugs. In other words, whatever ground they could gain in narcotics wouldn't be enough to replace what was lost.

I understand what your saying it will be a huge blow to loose their no 1 racket,but it will be replaced with a much bigger money maker.Also the 5 families could easily take over NY drug market because if they start doing deals with the cartels the cartels would prefer to have them as their ny connection than having to deal with im assuming latin gangs like they did in chicago.

I agree. The cartels would prefer to have LCN families as their ny connection, because no other organized crime groups in NYC have the structure and discipline as LCN. The Italians have so many rules and regulations on who can talk to who, who can do what, etc. There is no single criminal organization in United States structured hierarchically like the traditional LCN. Other criminal organizations are not clearly defined or organised and are instead grouped around a central leader or leaders. Latin/Black/Chinese/Albanian/Russian etc groups do have hierarchies, but the division between them isn’t as formal as for the Mafia. There’s more access to the high ranks than there is with the Mafia, where a soldier may never meet the boss except when he’s initiated. Plus the Mafia structure is pretty much the same everywhere.

[Wiseguy]

So LCN is still the dominant OC group in NYC. Personally i think that no group has come close to them, because their criminal activities are pretty diversified. This gives them a wider array of influence than other ethnic OC groups and street gangs that focus on drugs, guns or whatever else. Unlike a lot of those other crime groups, the Mafia on NYC has is imbedded in the legitimate world and has been for almost 100 years. Whether it be public corruption (police, politicians, unions) or particular industries (food distribution, trash hauling, construction, etc) as well as particular niches or trades within those industries (windows, drywall, restaurants, etc.) You have these relationships spanning generations where things aren't seen as much as crime as cutting corners or looking out for yourself or your friends because "everyone does it".

"The Italians may still control the lion's share of illegal organized crime activity but competitors are vying for a piece of the action. Law enforcement officials say Asians, Russians, and Albanians have established their own organizations in the U.S. These groups are smaller and more disorganized than their Italian counterparts but pose their own danger. Russian and Albanian groups 'are more like criminal enterprises than organized crime,' observes agent Dennis Bolles, who heads the squad investigating them.'" (CNN, 2008)

"Despite their weakened state, the five families of the (NY) Cosa Nostra still form the largest and most organized crime syndicate in the country. Law enforcement sources said its unlikely any group will become as successful or entrenched as the Cosa Nostra did, since the FBI learned by prosecuting Italian gangsters how to combat organized crime effectively. 'These groups are more about particular scams than taking over huge pieces of territory or whole industries,' said one law enforcement source."(New York Post, 2009)

"Over the past three decades, Russian mobsters, Chinese gangsters, Mexican cartels and a host of other groups have all grabbed slices of the criminal activity traditionally dominated by the Mafia. But none have come close to exerting the kind of wide-ranging influence still enjoyed by La Cosa Nostra, as the Italian-American mob is known. This is partly because of how the different gangs have organized themselves. The Mafia has a strict hierarchical structure, law enforcement officials said. (Wall Street Journal, 2011)

“It’s a significant presence and no less than in the past. I don’t think there’s any other organised crime group that has surpassed it in influence in New York City. All five families exist and are thriving." (US Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of New York, 2019)

[aleksandrored]

So even though it doesn't have the same power as before, is the mafia the group that dominates OC in NY?

[scagghiuni]

So even though it doesn't have the same power as before, is the mafia the group that dominates OC in NY?

yes, i doubt there is a single big criminal group as lcn in ny, not even close even today

[Wiseguy]

So even though it doesn't have the same power as before, is the mafia the group that dominates OC in NY?

I think it would be fair to say the Mafia is still the strongest and most organized crime group in the extended New York metropolitan area.

[Nick Prango]

So even though it doesn't have the same power as before, is the mafia the group that dominates OC in NY?

The Five Families in NY are for the most part still relatively powerful. They are not the forces they once were, but they are still the most powerful criminal organizations in New York . Personally i think that Cosa Nostra is an inseparable part of the Italian communities that reside in the Northeastern part of the US . It will be active for as long the Italian communities exist in the Northeastern part of the US .

[eboli]

I think we're far from the point when the mob will be knocked down as the most dominant organized crime group in the NY metro area. We've seen in the past how organized crime 'experts' predicted how they were on their way out and soon to be overtaken by various groups like the Russians, Albanians, etc. The mafia is entrenched and has been for a long time, it will take a significant amount of time and effort from another organization to upstage them, unless the federal government make LCN their №1 target again, and I don't see that happening. Their days as a nationwide entity are over and they will only shrink, but it won't be a quick process.

[Nick Prango]

I think we're far from the point when the mob will be knocked down as the most dominant organized crime group in the NY metro area. We've seen in the past how organized crime 'experts' predicted how they were on their way out and soon to be overtaken by various groups like the Russians, Albanians, etc. The mafia is entrenched and has been for a long time, it will take a significant amount of time and effort from another organization to upstage them, unless the federal government make LCN their №1 target again, and I don't see that happening. Their days as a nationwide entity are over and they will only shrink, but it won't be a quick process.

I couldn't agree more. LCN is still the strongest organised crime group in the New York area. Other ethnic organised crime groups got bigged up about 20 years ago as the next big thing in the underworld but it never really materialised. No other organised crime group in the area is as structured as LCN, and none have as much influence, particularly when it comes to control of unions. I am a Macedonian from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Macedonia. Here in my country 25% of population are Albanians. I am Macedonian, but some of my livelong friends are Albanians and Turks. Albanians who have family members members living in New York and New Jersey told me that Albanian crews mostly work for the Italian crime families in Northeastern United states. Some of them are even bragging that their relatives are with the Gambinos or Genoveses. They told me that Albanians don't really have any big syndicates in the US, just some small crews. From what Albanians told me Albanian crews in USA are not involved in traditional organized crime rackets. They are heavily involved in drugs and mostly work for the Italian crime families in Northeastern United states. There are Macedonian and Albanian gangs and criminal organisations operating in my country Macedonia. Ethnic Macedonians operating in the illegal drug trade here in my country work with Albanians. The idea of a highly organised, global Albanian mafia is a myth. The Albanian mob in United States is not organized enough compared to their much bigger competitors (Italians, Russians or even Mexican and Eastern Asian). In western European countries Albanians operating in the illegal drug trade work with other groups, such as ’ndrangheta and camorra clans. Some Albanian clan leaders have direct access to drug (and especially cocaine) producers in countries such as Bolivia and Peru, but these groups are mostly connected to the distribution, rather than the trafficking, of drugs. This means that they often deal in cocaine after it has arrived through the relevant ports of entry, and rely on agreements with those groups who handle the actual trafficking, such as the Calabrian ‘ndrangheta clans.

People tend to lump together different Eastern European crime groups and call them the 'Russian mob' in a way that's very misleading and makes them out to be far more organised and structured. The varied criminal organizations which are generally lumped together as being the “Russian Mafia” are not native born Americans in the same manner as the 5 families members. They are usually foreign nationals, or recent immigrants, who simply view the United States as a large target to plunder. They aren’t looking for “territory” as it is portrayed in films and television; they are looking for opportunities to make legal and illegal profits. Russians probably control most of the organized crime in Brighton Beach, NY. Which is a largely Russian community. Most of the organized crime in NYC is still controlled by the Italian Mafia -- 5 families , but they do business with other groups such as Russians or Albanians. The Russian mafia heavily favor smuggling and trafficking schemes.

[Nick Prango]

I think we're far from the point when the mob will be knocked down as the most dominant organized crime group in the NY metro area. We've seen in the past how organized crime 'experts' predicted how they were on their way out and soon to be overtaken by various groups like the Russians, Albanians, etc. The mafia is entrenched and has been for a long time, it will take a significant amount of time and effort from another organization to upstage them, unless the federal government make LCN their №1 target again, and I don't see that happening. Their days as a nationwide entity are over and they will only shrink, but it won't be a quick process.

While it’s true the LCN in the U.S. isn’t what it once was at the peak of its power it’s still a viable and profitable criminal enterprise that has proven to be very resilient. There have been numerous reports of the Mob’s demise over the last two decades or so but families in and outside of New York remain.

[Teddy Persico]

I agree. The cartels would prefer to have LCN families as their ny connection, because no other organized crime groups in NYC have the structure and discipline as LCN.

Is this true, though? Have we seen any cartel/LCN connections in recent years?