Unpopular opinion. Feds don’t know nearly as much about present day active LCN families as they did in the old days.

[Nick Prango]

The reason the FBI doesn't know as much about the mob today as they did in the old days is that they don't need to. The mob isn't nearly what it was then.

As this thread has already shown, there is really no evidence to suggest the feds know less about the families they still have under surveillance and prosecute. But it it is true they don't need the same level of manpower they did decades ago. However, some in law enforcement have voiced the concern the resources have gotten too low. And not just for the LCN in New York but for organized crime in general.

I agree that American LCN golden days are long gone. But LCN still has strongholds in New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, New England and Chicago.

[Nick Prango]

Im a fanboy because I ask for proof of something? Your a special kind of stupid there buddy. Also, the article says one squad for CHICAGO, not NY, but nice try.

They used to have a squad for every family. Now it's just a few nationwide. The mob is hardly a threat anymore and that's why the FBI doesn't care about them as much. So, sorry to ruin your lifelong dream, but the mob you wish you could join doesn't exist anymore.

It will never be like the 1970’s for LCN again, but personally i think that they have more power in 2021 than they did in 2005–6. Recently I watched an interview with retired FBI agent Joaquín "Jack" García and he thinks that there has been somewhat of a renaissance of LCN the last 15 years as law enforcement turn their eye towards terrorism and cyber crime. I agree that LCN activities are nowadays mostly in the Northeast (especially New York,New Jersey and Philadelphia), Chicago,Florida and arguably Detroit and Buffalo. Italian crime families have a very solid hierarchical structure, with people in place to step in when someone gets taken out or goes to prison. Other criminal organizations don't have that kind of hierarchical structure. That is why LCN is so resilient.

[Mets86]

LCN sure hasn't gotten any smarter since the 80s/90s. Entire Lucchese administration going away for the Meldish hit (among other events that have already been mentioned, like Bonanno and Philly ceremonies being bugged) proved to me that all families except the Genoveses and maybe the Gambino Zips are still suspectible to the same mistakes that nearly brought down the whole thing 20-30 years ago. I'm sure that the FBI agents who have experience in tracing electronically savvy pedophiles and terrorists laugh at the ignorance of these meatheads who still get caught yapping on the phone all the time.

While I think that the recent streak of mob rejuvenation is mostly due to the decreased heat, I think there are also various societal factors in play that point to the long-term viability of Italian-led organized crime in the United States. 20 years ago people would say stuff like "oh well sooner or later all Italian-American boys will be going to college and becoming doctors and lawyers". In reality there's a bunch of young white males in America today who don't have great prospects in society, which also drives stuff like QAnon conspiracies etc. We've seen that a capo like Joey Amato (from the weakest NYC family, not a super capo a with strong crew by any means) had no trouble recruiting young guys as associates.

[Nick Prango]

LCN sure hasn't gotten any smarter since the 80s/90s. Entire Lucchese administration going away for the Meldish hit (among other events that have already been mentioned, like Bonanno and Philly ceremonies being bugged) proved to me that all families except the Genoveses and maybe the Gambino Zips are still suspectible to the same mistakes that nearly brought down the whole thing 20-30 years ago. I'm sure that the FBI agents who have experience in tracing electronically savvy pedophiles and terrorists laugh at the ignorance of these meatheads who still get caught yapping on the phone all the time.

While I think that the recent streak of mob rejuvenation is mostly due to the decreased heat, I think there are also various societal factors in play that point to the long-term viability of Italian-led organized crime in the United States. 20 years ago people would say stuff like "oh well sooner or later all Italian-American boys will be going to college and becoming doctors and lawyers". In reality there's a bunch of young white males in America today who don't have great prospects in society, which also drives stuff like QAnon conspiracies etc. We've seen that a capo like Joey Amato (from the weakest NYC family, not a super capo a with strong crew by any means) had no trouble recruiting young guys as associates.

Exactly. I couldn't agree more on societal factors in play that point to the long-term viability of Italian-led organized crime in the United States.

[Moscone65]

There will always be boys who get in trouble and can’t go to college, or don’t want to. Back in the day LCN was a combination of this, guys who were dragged in because their family, or because Italians were more blue collar and had less opportunities. Nowadays, it’s more just the first reason.

[Jezza9009]

Is there any actual proof that LCN has been building up and is regaining strength and the feds are worried? I know they've recovered from the batterings in the 80s and 90s etc... but yeah, in terms of manpower, projecting strength on the street etc.. the rackets and them being inventive and finding new ways of making money, how well are they doing..exactly? hopefully, someone with better insight/knowledge in the life can be more specific and answer this question. Thank you!

[Wiseguy]

I agree that American LCN golden days are long gone. But LCN still has strongholds in New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, New England and Chicago.

The greater New York metropolitan area, yes. Elsewhere, I don't think so.

It will never be like the 1970’s for LCN again, but personally i think that they have more power in 2021 than they did in 2005–6. Recently I watched an interview with retired FBI agent Joaquín "Jack" García and he thinks that there has been somewhat of a renaissance of LCN the last 15 years as law enforcement turn their eye towards terrorism and cyber crime.

There may be some truth to that if you're specially talking about New York. In 2016, the head of the FBI's Criminal Division in New York, who supervises the OC squads, said he believed the city's families has quietly staged a comeback and were now more powerful than they had been in years. I think that's plausible if we're talking from the early 2000's and on, but not before. That same year, another supervisory special agent said the New York families, while not growing, were sustaining.

A 2018 analysis reported:

* LCN families – Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese – are still the predominant symbols of organised crime in the city, despite their structures and reach undergoing an apparently steady decline since the 1990s.

* While it was popularly believed that La Cosa Nostra was a thing of the past or that it is now a shadow of what is used to be, in New York this is not true,. The five families, at different degrees, are still extremely strong and join funds, forces and resources with old and new partners. Local and federal authorities maintained surveillance on all of the five families, since – apart from the Colombo syndicate – they have all re-emerged since the late 2000s as major underworld players.

* Even as LCN’s influence shrinks in New York, authorities consulted agree that it is still the most successful model of organized crime in the city. Many organised crime groups – different in size, reach, ethnicity, and capabilities – are active in New York, but traditional Italian-American criminal families such as LCN enjoy a particular status built on reputation, contacts, violence, and territorial control.

* LCN families in New York are embedded in the economic fabric of the city, as both underworld actors and legal investors and power brokers, placing them at the top of threat assessments.

[Grouchy Sinatra]

I think there are also various societal factors in play that point to the long-term viability of Italian-led organized crime in the United States. 20 years ago people would say stuff like "oh well sooner or later all Italian-American boys will be going to college and becoming doctors and lawyers". In reality there's a bunch of young white males in America today who don't have great prospects in society, which also drives stuff like QAnon conspiracies etc. We've seen that a capo like Joey Amato (from the weakest NYC family, not a super capo a with strong crew by any means) had no trouble recruiting young guys as associates.

Absolutely. Not just among membership, but among interest in general. Pop culture. The mob has made a comeback in cinema, considered to be a dead genre after the 90s. I can't believe how many millennials like The Sopranos. Most of these Soprano meme accounts on Twitter are young people, who first watched the show a few years ago. Why would this be so attractive? Because they're growing up in an America where a lifestyle like this seems better than anything realistically available.

[newera_212]

The gentrification of not only neighborhoods, but even the damn internet, have cut into these guys pockets. Look at what sports betting has turned into and where it's heading. Yeah, betting on credit is great. Supporting an old time pen-and-paper phone bookie you've known your whole life is great. But when Fan Duel starts letting you bet pitch-by-pitch on a game, or when you're able to parlay literally 30 ridiculous events like player props combined with game outcomes for +300000 odds at the press of a button, ultimately it's over for the small guy.

The niche these guys service in terms of 'protection', providing money, providing betting services, etc. has gotten dramatically smaller over the years.

Not saying the legalization of pot, or Draft Kings, or the fact that international conglomerates have comfortably moved into the development & service industries throughout NY is going to completely wipe these guys out - but it really does have to hurt.

As sick as it sounds they really might have to start getting violent again in order to get ahead. Literally hold on to whatever they have left with muscle

[PolackTony]

I think there are also various societal factors in play that point to the long-term viability of Italian-led organized crime in the United States. 20 years ago people would say stuff like "oh well sooner or later all Italian-American boys will be going to college and becoming doctors and lawyers". In reality there's a bunch of young white males in America today who don't have great prospects in society, which also drives stuff like QAnon conspiracies etc. We've seen that a capo like Joey Amato (from the weakest NYC family, not a super capo a with strong crew by any means) had no trouble recruiting young guys as associates.

Absolutely. Not just among membership, but among interest in general. Pop culture. The mob has made a comeback in cinema, considered to be a dead genre after the 90s. I can't believe how many millennials like The Sopranos. Most of these Soprano meme accounts on Twitter are young people, who first watched the show a few years ago. Why would this be so attractive? Because they're growing up in an America where a lifestyle like this seems better than anything realistically available.

These are important point about the socio-cultural dynamics underlying popular perceptions of the mob. And while this resurgent interest in pop culture representations of LCN is everywhere, it holds even greater pull in specific geographic areas and social networks. While the modern LCN has white collar rackets, significant business Interests, Healthcare scams and other types of fraud, etc., the continuance of blue collar rackets depends on the reproduction of a "racket subculture" (to borrow from sociologist Robert Lombardo). It is within these local racket subcultures that the social networks that produce not just recruitment pools but also the pools of clientele that blue collar rackets depend on. People sometimes wonder what leads someone in the age of online sports betting and pay day loans etc to patronize connected guys for gambling and juice loans. Some of it is of course instrumental -- not wanting to pay taxes on gambling profits etc -- but a lot of it is cultural. Places that still have significant pockets of racket subculture produce social networks steeped in the aesthetics and mythology of organized crime, and current LCN actors are embedded in the social life of the community. Joe Schmo running with the mob isn't just some name in an indictment, he's some guy you know's cousin, who went to high school at Saint So-and-so, and you heard he's back out after doing a bid. Everyone knows a guy who knows a guy... Floating card games, etc. Not everyone in these communities is Italian, you got Irish or Polish and maybe a Puerto Rican kid or whatever, but they grew up in the same neighborhoods, went to the same schools.

The NYC area has racket subculture communities and networks in spades still, of course. Quite a bit of it remains in Chicago as well, where you still have of plenty of street-oriented white guys (Italian, Irish etc) in city neighborhoods like Bridgeport and Canaryville as well as throughout the suburbs (as well as Latinos and a smattering of other groups who now have grown up in the same social networks. Not unusual to see obituaries of Outfit connected families with Spanish surnames peppered in today). Philly/South Jersey, parts of New England. I don't know Detroit, so I don't know to what degree this sort of phenomenon really persists there.

[Wiseguy]

The gentrification of not only neighborhoods, but even the damn internet, have cut into these guys pockets. Look at what sports betting has turned into and where it's heading. Yeah, betting on credit is great. Supporting an old time pen-and-paper phone bookie you've known your whole life is great. But when Fan Duel starts letting you bet pitch-by-pitch on a game, or when you're able to parlay literally 30 ridiculous events like player props combined with game outcomes for +300000 odds at the press of a button, ultimately it's over for the small guy.

The niche these guys service in terms of 'protection', providing money, providing betting services, etc. has gotten dramatically smaller over the years.

Not saying the legalization of pot, or Draft Kings, or the fact that international conglomerates have comfortably moved into the development & service industries throughout NY is going to completely wipe these guys out - but it really does have to hurt.

As sick as it sounds they really might have to start getting violent again in order to get ahead. Literally hold on to whatever they have left with muscle

Pen and paper bookie? When are you talking about? The mob has been using online gambling for years now. Betting on credit and no taxes on winnings.

[PolackTony]

The gentrification of not only neighborhoods, but even the damn internet, have cut into these guys pockets. Look at what sports betting has turned into and where it's heading. Yeah, betting on credit is great. Supporting an old time pen-and-paper phone bookie you've known your whole life is great. But when Fan Duel starts letting you bet pitch-by-pitch on a game, or when you're able to parlay literally 30 ridiculous events like player props combined with game outcomes for +300000 odds at the press of a button, ultimately it's over for the small guy.

The niche these guys service in terms of 'protection', providing money, providing betting services, etc. has gotten dramatically smaller over the years.

Not saying the legalization of pot, or Draft Kings, or the fact that international conglomerates have comfortably moved into the development & service industries throughout NY is going to completely wipe these guys out - but it really does have to hurt.

As sick as it sounds they really might have to start getting violent again in order to get ahead. Literally hold on to whatever they have left with muscle

Another thing to consider is that the legalization of these former vices also creates new markets and grows existing ones. Everyone's gambling online now, but instead of being a stunad and paying taxes, my cousin knows a guy, etc etc. No taxes, plus I get to feel like I'm in a Sopranos episode. Legal weed comes to the area, why go to the dispensary when your buddy from HS is moving weed with his crew and business is booming. So while legalization may lead to more intense competition, it also leads to growing social acceptance and proliferation. In specific community niches, OC will be there to fill these demands via black and grey market routes.

[eboli]

I think there are also various societal factors in play that point to the long-term viability of Italian-led organized crime in the United States. 20 years ago people would say stuff like "oh well sooner or later all Italian-American boys will be going to college and becoming doctors and lawyers". In reality there's a bunch of young white males in America today who don't have great prospects in society, which also drives stuff like QAnon conspiracies etc. We've seen that a capo like Joey Amato (from the weakest NYC family, not a super capo a with strong crew by any means) had no trouble recruiting young guys as associates.

Absolutely. Not just among membership, but among interest in general. Pop culture. The mob has made a comeback in cinema, considered to be a dead genre after the 90s. I can't believe how many millennials like The Sopranos. Most of these Soprano meme accounts on Twitter are young people, who first watched the show a few years ago. Why would this be so attractive? Because they're growing up in an America where a lifestyle like this seems better than anything realistically available.

That's a very good point. The mob genre really is making a comeback in recent years. I hope that In cinema it will be like the neo-western renaissance from a decade ago that brought some underrated gems. What I find the most interesting is that teens and young adults look at The Sopranos with rose-tinted glasses. Like it's a time capsule of better days. It really shows how much the world has changed since the show's finale.

[Wiseguy]

What I find the most interesting is that teens and young adults look at The Sopranos with rose-tinted glasses. Like it's a time capsule of better days. It really shows how much the world has changed since the show's finale.

It's good to be in something from the ground floor. I came too late for that, I know. But lately I'm getting the feeling I came in at the end. The best is over.

[bluehouse]

My guess is in the next 15 years with all these young guys coming in it will basically be drugs only with very little emphasis on everything else just like how it is in Italy.Can you imagine the 700+ made guys in new york all moving weight.Youll have guys making millions in a few months rather than running a sports book or loanshark operation which they take much more work.Yes people will get busted but always remember it took them over a decade to arresst big meech and he literally was taunting them in music videos and billboards.So imagine what resources and time they would have to make cases on 700 made guys plus 1000s of associates.