Capone and the Mafia

[Confederate]

I use allegedly because we don't know for certain who wielded what. There's no actual evidence of being beaten with baseball bats on their autopsy reports, but it doesn't mean it wasn't part of the overall beatings than ended with them being shot. Mags believes Accardo did use a bat, but that info was passed down to him second or third or fourth hand. Accardo didn't tell him himself. We don't know if Capone took part or just stood back giving the orders.

Capone was a semi-pro baseball player before he moved to Chicago and an avid fan.

I believe Caruso sang at Colosimo's Cafe.

I've already discussed this with Villain, I was just wondering if you ever watched the "Boardwalk Empire" Series? The first time I saw it was several years ago & didn't pay attention to very many details about it at that time. However, since being on this Forum for almost 3 years, I bought the whole series & watched it again with a more educated perspective. Anyway, just wondering if you ever watched it, even remember it, & what your take was on it. Let's say they portrayed Capone in a "different" type of light, to say the least. lol

Never watched it. To be honest, I think if I did watch this series that totally changed facts and history that I might take a bat to my TV. LOL

They didn't totally change the facts of history & they left out some important things & added some other strange things. I would then suggest you not watch it. You'll have to buy a new T.V afterwards.

[DPG]

In addition, $50,000 in 1928, in todays cash is around $700,000; and thats how much money Capone used to send back to NY on monthly basis, especially to the Yale/Masseria clan. The thing is that all of that cash wasnt part from Capone's own investment and procceeding, but instead most of those same procceedings were in fact investments made by various New York Mafia members, in Capone's operations in Chicago. For example, one of those guys who allegedly made a lot of investments in Capones ops, was one Masseria and Luciano ally known as Generoso Del Ducca.

From what I’ve read over the years one thing that stuck out to me is Capone’s outfit being described as a six man partnership that spilt the profits of the organization in equal parts....with underlings being told not to pay Capone directly because he would blow the money before others got their share. I wonder how the 50k a month to NY played into this.

[Villain]

In addition, $50,000 in 1928, in todays cash is around $700,000; and thats how much money Capone used to send back to NY on monthly basis, especially to the Yale/Masseria clan. The thing is that all of that cash wasnt part from Capone's own investment and procceeding, but instead most of those same procceedings were in fact investments made by various New York Mafia members, in Capone's operations in Chicago. For example, one of those guys who allegedly made a lot of investments in Capones ops, was one Masseria and Luciano ally known as Generoso Del Ducca.

From what I’ve read over the years one thing that stuck out to me is Capone’s outfit being described as a six man partnership that spilt the profits of the organization in equal parts....with underlings being told not to pay Capone directly because he would blow the money before others got their share. I wonder how the 50k a month to NY played into this.

Im not sure about that 6 men syndicate, but i agree that Capone was a big spender and thats why they had guys like Guzik and Greenberg who handled most of the gang's income and later spread it to the rest of the bosses. As for the 50k, that info comes from Gentile

[DPG]

In addition, $50,000 in 1928, in todays cash is around $700,000; and thats how much money Capone used to send back to NY on monthly basis, especially to the Yale/Masseria clan. The thing is that all of that cash wasnt part from Capone's own investment and procceeding, but instead most of those same procceedings were in fact investments made by various New York Mafia members, in Capone's operations in Chicago. For example, one of those guys who allegedly made a lot of investments in Capones ops, was one Masseria and Luciano ally known as Generoso Del Ducca.

From what I’ve read over the years one thing that stuck out to me is Capone’s outfit being described as a six man partnership that spilt the profits of the organization in equal parts....with underlings being told not to pay Capone directly because he would blow the money before others got their share. I wonder how the 50k a month to NY played into this.

Im not sure about that 6 men syndicate, but i agree that Capone was a big spender and thats why they had guys like Guzik and Greenberg who handled most of the gang's income and later spread it to the rest of the bosses. As for the 50k, that info comes from Gentile

I misspoke, this is from Jonathan Eig’s ‘Get Capone’ and the info apparently comes from IRS files related to Capone’s conviction for failing to file tax returns.

In Cicero for 1925 and 1926, the feds said Capone grabbed 52 percent of all gambling income, which he split evenly with his three principal partners:his brother Ralph, Jack Guzik and Frank Nitti. After that, about 20 percent went to town officials and the rest went to the local operators of brothels, saloons and casinos.

Now if this partnership was limited to Cicero and only those years, I don’t know.

The chapter in the book in mainly about Capone’s overestimated wealth by the govt. By 1927 he hadn’t even paid off the $4400 mortgage that he had left on his house, he had no bank accounts on shore or off and had not funneled any large amounts of money to anyone that the govt could find. The whole $105 million is purely a guesstimation by the govt. Capone never once bought any stock or made any type of legal investment. The only things the govt could actually prove were his was his bulletproof Caddy, his house in his Chicago(which was technically his mother’s house) and his house in Miami. He never saved a dime according to most accounts but instead chose to gamble persistently, hand out gifts constantly and give loans to people that were on hard times that he never asked to be repaid for. When in Chicago he live exclusively in hotels, always paid his bill at the end of the week in cash and didn’t show up at home for more than a couple days every few weeks.

I know I’m rambling at this point but another thing that always surprises me is that with all the media constantly hounding him and govt investigators chasing him Capone, to my knowledge, was never photographed or linked to a single woman aside from Mae. You know good and well that he may have been able to skate by with reporters by making payoffs or giving access to himself to keep them out of this part of his life but the govt would stop at nothing to ruin this mans life and image. I’m probably looking too much into this but it has always baffled me.

[Villain]

I misspoke, this is from Jonathan Eig’s ‘Get Capone’ and the info apparently comes from IRS files related to Capone’s conviction for failing to file tax returns.

In Cicero for 1925 and 1926, the feds said Capone grabbed 52 percent of all gambling income, which he split evenly with his three principal partners:his brother Ralph, Jack Guzik and Frank Nitti. After that, about 20 percent went to town officials and the rest went to the local operators of brothels, saloons and casinos.

Now if this partnership was limited to Cicero and only those years, I don’t know.

The chapter in the book in mainly about Capone’s overestimated wealth by the govt. By 1927 he hadn’t even paid off the $4400 mortgage that he had left on his house, he had no bank accounts on shore or off and had not funneled any large amounts of money to anyone that the govt could find. The whole $105 million is purely a guesstimation by the govt. Capone never once bought any stock or made any type of legal investment. The only things the govt could actually prove were his was his bulletproof Caddy, his house in his Chicago(which was technically his mother’s house) and his house in Miami. He never saved a dime according to most accounts but instead chose to gamble persistently, hand out gifts constantly and give loans to people that were on hard times that he never asked to be repaid for. When in Chicago he live exclusively in hotels, always paid his bill at the end of the week in cash and didn’t show up at home for more than a couple days every few weeks.

I know I’m rambling at this point but another thing that always surprises me is that with all the media constantly hounding him and govt investigators chasing him Capone, to my knowledge, was never photographed or linked to a single woman aside from Mae. You know good and well that he may have been able to skate by with reporters by making payoffs or giving access to himself to keep them out of this part of his life but the govt would stop at nothing to ruin this mans life and image. I’m probably looking too much into this but it has always baffled me.

In 1925 or 26, Capone completely took over southern Cicero, while the northern part was still headed by the Lombardo/Aiello faction and the O'Banion/Drucci group also had interests. Dont forget that Capone also had interests in the Loop, Chinatown and the South Side.

As I previously stated, that many mobsters invested in Capones ops and so he probably had to spread a lot of cash in different directions, including LE. Capone was a big spender and proof for that was Humphreys and Guziks charity for Capones family, after his imprisonment and later after his death. Story goes that Ralph Capone didnt care much about them and so the guys had to collect from the organization every year, until Giancana took over and nixed the whole "helping the Capones" operation.

[Villain]

Also heres some additional files regarding Capone...

Capone and the Lombardo/Aiello/Masseria situation








Other members investing in Capone's operations



Capone being one of the guys who planned the Maranzano hit



Regarding the commission in 1931






Capone and Magaddino



Capone and Zerilli







Capone and Milano



Capone and Tony Ricci





Capone and Roselli



Capone and Dragna

[motorfab]

Awesome stuff Villain, thank you

[Villain]

Awesome stuff Villain, thank you

You're welcome bud

[Dwalin2014]

I misspoke, this is from Jonathan Eig’s ‘Get Capone’ and the info apparently comes from IRS files related to Capone’s conviction for failing to file tax returns.

In Cicero for 1925 and 1926, the feds said Capone grabbed 52 percent of all gambling income, which he split evenly with his three principal partners:his brother Ralph, Jack Guzik and Frank Nitti. After that, about 20 percent went to town officials and the rest went to the local operators of brothels, saloons and casinos.

I read the same in Mars Eghigian's book about Frank Nitto. I wonder though why wasn't Paul Ricca included in this group, since he is supposed to be more important than Nitto. Or did he "rise up" only after Capone's imprisonment?

[Villain]

I misspoke, this is from Jonathan Eig’s ‘Get Capone’ and the info apparently comes from IRS files related to Capone’s conviction for failing to file tax returns.

In Cicero for 1925 and 1926, the feds said Capone grabbed 52 percent of all gambling income, which he split evenly with his three principal partners:his brother Ralph, Jack Guzik and Frank Nitti. After that, about 20 percent went to town officials and the rest went to the local operators of brothels, saloons and casinos.

I read the same in Mars Eghigian's book about Frank Nitto. I wonder though why wasn't Paul Ricca included in this group, since he is supposed to be more important than Nitto. Or did he "rise up" only after Capone's imprisonment?

Nitto was a victim of the media

[Dwalin2014]

I misspoke, this is from Jonathan Eig’s ‘Get Capone’ and the info apparently comes from IRS files related to Capone’s conviction for failing to file tax returns.

In Cicero for 1925 and 1926, the feds said Capone grabbed 52 percent of all gambling income, which he split evenly with his three principal partners:his brother Ralph, Jack Guzik and Frank Nitti. After that, about 20 percent went to town officials and the rest went to the local operators of brothels, saloons and casinos.

I read the same in Mars Eghigian's book about Frank Nitto. I wonder though why wasn't Paul Ricca included in this group, since he is supposed to be more important than Nitto. Or did he "rise up" only after Capone's imprisonment?

Nitto was a victim of the media

Then why did Capone give him 1/4 of that 52 percent part of the income? Why him and not Ricca?

[Villain]

I misspoke, this is from Jonathan Eig’s ‘Get Capone’ and the info apparently comes from IRS files related to Capone’s conviction for failing to file tax returns.

In Cicero for 1925 and 1926, the feds said Capone grabbed 52 percent of all gambling income, which he split evenly with his three principal partners:his brother Ralph, Jack Guzik and Frank Nitti. After that, about 20 percent went to town officials and the rest went to the local operators of brothels, saloons and casinos.

I read the same in Mars Eghigian's book about Frank Nitto. I wonder though why wasn't Paul Ricca included in this group, since he is supposed to be more important than Nitto. Or did he "rise up" only after Capone's imprisonment?

Nitto was a victim of the media

Then why did Capone give him 1/4 of that 52 percent part of the income? Why him and not Ricca?

During those days LE mostly depended on the media, since the feds at the time were collecting newspaper clippings. Capone was Riccas best man in 1926 or 27 so I doubt that he didnt take his cut

[B.]

B, where did you see that Yale and Pollaccia visited the Genna faction during their 1924 visit? Yale said he visited Al Capone; I don't recall him mentioning the Gennas.

Along with Pollaccia showing up in Tropea's contact book, I saw a reference to Yale and Pollaccia being seen with Scalise and Anselmi prior to the Merlo funeral and the O'Bannion murder. I don't have the original source for it but maybe you can verify it as you have done much more thorough research on the subject.

As for Ricca and Loverde, they were also arrested on a train to NY the previous year or 1930, with a bunch of other Chicago mobsters including Pete Fosco, Eddie Vogel, Jake Guzik and Ted Newberry. So as i previously said, thats some interesting info and thinking, meaning it is possible there were two factions, meaning one Sicilian and the other a non-Sicilian, but except for the Atlantic City conference, which was not a Mafia meeting, there wasnt any Mafia meeting, before 1930, on which the Capone faction was present. They always had some less powerful Sicilian ally who represented them, but still he was important in the Sicilian world which in fact was a infiltration ticket for the mainlanders.

During the 1928 Cleveland meeting there werent any of Capones men present and so who do you think represented Masserias and Capones interests on that same sit down? Also Bacinos loyalty towards Capone/Masseria and Roberto can be proved with Bacino maintaining his presence in C City from 1928 onward or until his death. Oliveri abandoned that area and so Bacino took over.

That would make sense that Capone wouldn't be directly represented pre-1930, as he was either a non-member or a newly made member, though like you said, his interests could have been represented by a Sicilian.

Masseria should have been represented somehow at the 1928 Cleveland meeting, but there were many people not directly represented at the 1928 Cleveland meeting and we don't know if all of the planned attendees were present when they were detained. Giuseppe Traina had previously been a "sostituto" (substitute) for the capo dei capi D'Aquila and he appears to have been the senior most figure at the meeting.

They were likely discussing some of the murders, new boss appointments, and other issues, though hard to say given we have no firsthand sources and I don't think any second or third-hand sources discussed the meeting, not even Gentile or Bonanno. Even though Masseria had killed Traina's friend D'Aquila, I wouldn't rule out Traina representing Masseria if for no other reason than to keep the peace, something Traina would have been especially perfect for given his relationship to the murdered D'Aquila. Traina appears to have cooperated with Masseria until Maranzano recruited D'Aquila's former allies Traina and Frank Scalise as part of a "secret" anti-Masseria group within the Mineo family.

If we look at the attendees, we see representatives of the D'Aquila/Palermitani, so they may have attended to reassure the other national mafia families that "everything is okay" even though D'Aquila was killed. Remember after Paul Castellano was killed, the Gambino family held a meeting to reassure everyone that everything was "fine" (even though it wasn't). These guys often go through the motions of peace and friendship while they secretly seethe and plot.

In addition, Lolordo was never a Chicago "long time" resident and he came almost out of "nowhere" as the main rep for the Chi faction, same as Bacino for C City and possibly the Heights faction, while guys like Capone already spent almost a decade in that same city. And since none of the mainlanders were present on the meeting, it was quite possible that Lolordo, Bacino and Oliveri represented Capones, Robertos and Masserias interests, meaning the whole theory about two separate groups goes down the toilet in this particular case. In addition, it is possible that Oliveri was a part from the former D'Aquila regime.

Oliveri's cousin married NYC Corleonesi boss Tom Reina and her father Andrea Oliveri had been a mafia figure who turned up in investigations into the Morello family early on. Reina's successor Tom Gagliano's mother was also an Oliveri I believe, but not sure the exact relation (if any), but we can see the Oliveri name was deeply intertwined with high-level Corleonesi bloodlines in NYC.

So Sam Oliveri's ties in NYC were to the Reina/Lucchese family, with the Reina faction being adamantly opposed to Masseria, so it would make sense that Oliveri was not on board with the Capone crowd given they were Masseria's people and Masseria was blamed for killing Oliveri's cousin-in-law Tom Reina.

Lolordo was connected to the Agrigentini network and came to Chicago when his fellow Agrigentino Mike Merlo was boss, so I suspect that was how he rose up in Chicago, plus his NYC years are a mystery beyond the fact that he worked as a bartender in Manhattan. He was probably a member of the early DeCavalcante family, like his brother Joe would later be, or he was aligned with the powerful Agrigentini faction of the D'Aquila family. One of the top leaders of the D'Aquila Agrigentini faction, Accursio Dimino, was killed around the period that Lolordo went to Chicago, suggesting trouble in and around that faction and that could (total speculation) have influenced Lolordo's departure.

Lolordo was killed a few months after D'Aquila and had become the Chicago boss when D'Aquila was capo dei capi -- the capo dei capi was known for interfering in boss elections around the country, so it's likely Lolordo became boss with D'Aquila's support and his death may have resulted partially from D'Aquila's absence.

Bacino definitely fell in line, if he was ever opposed to Capone to begin with, but that's pretty much the standard protocol with mob wars. He saw the writing on the wall and would have fallen in line with the new regime, like we've seen in most families.

When I say "factions", as Magaddino did, they are part of the same Chicago family, but one was the "greaseballs" (Sicilians) and the other "Americanized" (mainlanders, but likely included Americanized Sicilians). Given how close the Riberesi remained to their Sicilian roots, it's likely to me that Lolordo from Ribera was a "greaseball" and I can only speculate, but his becoming boss when D'Aquila (who represented a huge Agrigento faction) was capo dei capi and then being killed shortly after D'Aquila suggests to me he was more likely a D'Aquila ally than a Masseria ally.

Of course, new info always revolutionizes the discussion so I'm not married to any of this.

Great discussion!

[Antiliar]

According to a contemporary source, Capone in Cleveland two days after the meeting until he was warned to leave to avoid arrest. So although he didn't attend, he might have been connected to the meeting.

I couldn't find anything on Yale meeting with Anselmi etc. He said he came for Merlo's funeral in 1924 and was a friend of Capone's.

[Villain]

B, where did you see that Yale and Pollaccia visited the Genna faction during their 1924 visit? Yale said he visited Al Capone; I don't recall him mentioning the Gennas.

Along with Pollaccia showing up in Tropea's contact book, I saw a reference to Yale and Pollaccia being seen with Scalise and Anselmi prior to the Merlo funeral and the O'Bannion murder. I don't have the original source for it but maybe you can verify it as you have done much more thorough research on the subject.

As for Ricca and Loverde, they were also arrested on a train to NY the previous year or 1930, with a bunch of other Chicago mobsters including Pete Fosco, Eddie Vogel, Jake Guzik and Ted Newberry. So as i previously said, thats some interesting info and thinking, meaning it is possible there were two factions, meaning one Sicilian and the other a non-Sicilian, but except for the Atlantic City conference, which was not a Mafia meeting, there wasnt any Mafia meeting, before 1930, on which the Capone faction was present. They always had some less powerful Sicilian ally who represented them, but still he was important in the Sicilian world which in fact was a infiltration ticket for the mainlanders.

During the 1928 Cleveland meeting there werent any of Capones men present and so who do you think represented Masserias and Capones interests on that same sit down? Also Bacinos loyalty towards Capone/Masseria and Roberto can be proved with Bacino maintaining his presence in C City from 1928 onward or until his death. Oliveri abandoned that area and so Bacino took over.

That would make sense that Capone wouldn't be directly represented pre-1930, as he was either a non-member or a newly made member, though like you said, his interests could have been represented by a Sicilian.

Masseria should have been represented somehow at the 1928 Cleveland meeting, but there were many people not directly represented at the 1928 Cleveland meeting and we don't know if all of the planned attendees were present when they were detained. Giuseppe Traina had previously been a "sostituto" (substitute) for the capo dei capi D'Aquila and he appears to have been the senior most figure at the meeting.

They were likely discussing some of the murders, new boss appointments, and other issues, though hard to say given we have no firsthand sources and I don't think any second or third-hand sources discussed the meeting, not even Gentile or Bonanno. Even though Masseria had killed Traina's friend D'Aquila, I wouldn't rule out Traina representing Masseria if for no other reason than to keep the peace, something Traina would have been especially perfect for given his relationship to the murdered D'Aquila. Traina appears to have cooperated with Masseria until Maranzano recruited D'Aquila's former allies Traina and Frank Scalise as part of a "secret" anti-Masseria group within the Mineo family.

If we look at the attendees, we see representatives of the D'Aquila/Palermitani, so they may have attended to reassure the other national mafia families that "everything is okay" even though D'Aquila was killed. Remember after Paul Castellano was killed, the Gambino family held a meeting to reassure everyone that everything was "fine" (even though it wasn't). These guys often go through the motions of peace and friendship while they secretly seethe and plot.

In addition, Lolordo was never a Chicago "long time" resident and he came almost out of "nowhere" as the main rep for the Chi faction, same as Bacino for C City and possibly the Heights faction, while guys like Capone already spent almost a decade in that same city. And since none of the mainlanders were present on the meeting, it was quite possible that Lolordo, Bacino and Oliveri represented Capones, Robertos and Masserias interests, meaning the whole theory about two separate groups goes down the toilet in this particular case. In addition, it is possible that Oliveri was a part from the former D'Aquila regime.

Oliveri's cousin married NYC Corleonesi boss Tom Reina and her father Andrea Oliveri had been a mafia figure who turned up in investigations into the Morello family early on. Reina's successor Tom Gagliano's mother was also an Oliveri I believe, but not sure the exact relation (if any), but we can see the Oliveri name was deeply intertwined with high-level Corleonesi bloodlines in NYC.

So Sam Oliveri's ties in NYC were to the Reina/Lucchese family, with the Reina faction being adamantly opposed to Masseria, so it would make sense that Oliveri was not on board with the Capone crowd given they were Masseria's people and Masseria was blamed for killing Oliveri's cousin-in-law Tom Reina.

Lolordo was connected to the Agrigentini network and came to Chicago when his fellow Agrigentino Mike Merlo was boss, so I suspect that was how he rose up in Chicago, plus his NYC years are a mystery beyond the fact that he worked as a bartender in Manhattan. He was probably a member of the early DeCavalcante family, like his brother Joe would later be, or he was aligned with the powerful Agrigentini faction of the D'Aquila family. One of the top leaders of the D'Aquila Agrigentini faction, Accursio Dimino, was killed around the period that Lolordo went to Chicago, suggesting trouble in and around that faction and that could (total speculation) have influenced Lolordo's departure.

Lolordo was killed a few months after D'Aquila and had become the Chicago boss when D'Aquila was capo dei capi -- the capo dei capi was known for interfering in boss elections around the country, so it's likely Lolordo became boss with D'Aquila's support and his death may have resulted partially from D'Aquila's absence.

Bacino definitely fell in line, if he was ever opposed to Capone to begin with, but that's pretty much the standard protocol with mob wars. He saw the writing on the wall and would have fallen in line with the new regime, like we've seen in most families.

When I say "factions", as Magaddino did, they are part of the same Chicago family, but one was the "greaseballs" (Sicilians) and the other "Americanized" (mainlanders, but likely included Americanized Sicilians). Given how close the Riberesi remained to their Sicilian roots, it's likely to me that Lolordo from Ribera was a "greaseball" and I can only speculate, but his becoming boss when D'Aquila (who represented a huge Agrigento faction) was capo dei capi and then being killed shortly after D'Aquila suggests to me he was more likely a D'Aquila ally than a Masseria ally.

Of course, new info always revolutionizes the discussion so I'm not married to any of this.

Great discussion!

I agree, this is top notch discussion and ill put the likns in my projects from both threads regarding Chicago, so in future some new and younger researchers can create their own opinions.

I also agree that we dont have first hand knowledge regarding the convos that went down, but as i previously mentioned in one of my posts, meaning whenever i stumble upon same or similiar situation like this one, I usually look at the product from that same situation, meaning we can see on what happened or what went down next.

For example, as you already said, Lolordo mightve been connected to the D'Aquila regime but what about the possibility of betrayal and switching sides? Again, as you already pointed out, DAquila was killed in October 10 while the meeting occurred on December 4 i think....so do you think that after all of the murders that occurred month after month, Lolordo was going to be able to represent the dead DAquila?

We can easily explain this with the Oliveri case, meaning the guy obviously used to be with the former DAquila regime and he probably took a step back for Bacino, who in turn later simply fell under the Roberto regime. This means Oliveri was smart and chose to leave the city, meaning he didnt remain under the same regime in Chicago, nor he joined the Capone mob. As for Lolordo, he probably joined Capone and was eliminated by the opposition or his former buddies. Dont forget that his brother was involved in the infamous massacre orchastrated by the Caponites and "revenged" the late Lolordo and later took off

So if we count the time startin from Daquila demise, Lolordo managed to remain alive for "quite awhile" lol, if you know what im saying here?!

Its good that you corrected yourself regarding the Americanized guys and the old timers, since i thought you were talking about two official separate factions?! Lol just kidding.....the same thing occurred in Chicago during the 40s and 50s, meaning the younger and rising generation had enough from the old Capone mob and they took over, although some old time guys like Ricca and Accardo managed to manipulate the whole situation, meaning they probably learned the lesson on what happened to the ol timers back during the late 20s and so they managed to control the younger guys TO AN EXTENT and kept their high or top positions