most influential in each family(current)

[Dwalin2014]

if you’re thinking of Thief in Laws. The Solntsevskaya Bratva without a doubt exists. They just moved on from your standard organized crime activity, while definitely still engaging in those types of crimes. They have mostly integrated into the banking systems in Russia, to gain leverage over and ties with members of the Oligarchs (the people that really control Russia) and of course, the government hierarchies, in particular the State Duma (Russian Senate, controlled by Putin’s party), Federal Security Services (FSB, KGB successor which Putin was formerly a Colonel of), and the Main Directorate of General Staff (GRU, which you guessed it, answers directly to Putin) in fact, an old friend of mine named Joesph Montalbano used to date the niece of Sergei “Mikhas” Mikhailov, her name was Mariya Anastasia Mikhailova. So I promise they’re not a myth, they just became ultra sophisticated, and essentially are the Russian deep state.

thieves in laws still exists i highly doubt about solntsevskaya bratva i've never heard of any indictment against them in the last 20 years i don't think they are an organization anymore with structure etc. no matter if some of them became a politician or oligarch, the organization is dead in my opinion just as jewish mob in the states in the 1940s

Imo the reason there are no indictments is that they are too powerful to be indicted, at least in Russia. In 2017 there were some arrests in Spain though, including one of the leaders, Arnold Tamm (who also went by last name Spivakovsky), but unfortunately nothing came of it I think, and Tamm died in 2019 anyway.

[Peppermint]

if you’re thinking of Thief in Laws. The Solntsevskaya Bratva without a doubt exists. They just moved on from your standard organized crime activity, while definitely still engaging in those types of crimes. They have mostly integrated into the banking systems in Russia, to gain leverage over and ties with members of the Oligarchs (the people that really control Russia) and of course, the government hierarchies, in particular the State Duma (Russian Senate, controlled by Putin’s party), Federal Security Services (FSB, KGB successor which Putin was formerly a Colonel of), and the Main Directorate of General Staff (GRU, which you guessed it, answers directly to Putin) in fact, an old friend of mine named Joesph Montalbano used to date the niece of Sergei “Mikhas” Mikhailov, her name was Mariya Anastasia Mikhailova. So I promise they’re not a myth, they just became ultra sophisticated, and essentially are the Russian deep state.

thieves in laws still exists i highly doubt about solntsevskaya bratva i've never heard of any indictment against them in the last 20 years i don't think they are an organization anymore with structure etc. no matter if some of them became a politician or oligarch, the organization is dead in my opinion just as jewish mob in the states in the 1940s

To my understanding, thieves in law are the ones that are only rumored to exist, never the less that is besides the point. Of course there isn’t going to be any indictments, especially not any of which that are public. They quite literally operate under the protection of not only the Russian Oligarchs they have in their pockets through the banking sectors, but also operate under the protection of the Russian FSB.

Not to continue going into depth about the Russian mob and derail the thread, since there is a section specifically for them. Point being, just because there is a lack in evidence of existence, doesn’t mean there is lack of existence. Or however the saying goes...

Though I will add, the Italian mob to my understanding, and please correct me if I’m wrong, has never in it’s history been able to act under that kind of cover in the respective nations of operations, regardless of however powerful and influential they may have been in at one time. Except maybe Cuba in the days prior to Castro and the rise of Communism there.

[scagghiuni]

To my understanding, thieves in law are the ones that are only rumored to exist, never the less that is besides the point. Of course there isn’t going to be any indictments, especially not any of which that are public. They quite literally operate under the protection of not only the Russian Oligarchs they have in their pockets through the banking sectors, but also operate under the protection of the Russian FSB.

Not to continue going into depth about the Russian mob and derail the thread, since there is a section specifically for them. Point being, just because there is a lack in evidence of existence, doesn’t mean there is lack of existence. Or however the saying goes...

Though I will add, the Italian mob to my understanding, and please correct me if I’m wrong, has never in it’s history been able to act under that kind of cover in the respective nations of operations, regardless of however powerful and influential they may have been in at one time. Except maybe Cuba in the days prior to Castro and the rise of Communism there.

thieves in laws were arrested in the latest years both in russia and some european countries, they had meetings etc. solntsevskaya bratva seemed a myth in the same way as someone who spoke of buffalo or chicago claiming they are still a super-power, but you could be right that in russia they are linked to putin circle and never touched, but i don't think they are an organization with ranks, structure, more a bunch of businessmen close to putin... italian mob in italy in the past was even more powerful and covered anyway, before 1992 and maxi-trial sentence the mafia it wasn't even sure if the mafia existed

[scagghiuni]

Genovese-Bellomo or Cirrilo
Lucchese- would of been Crea but he is done now so I’d maybe say the Pernas?
Gambino- Cefalu
Bonanno- maybe the hardest one Vinny TV or Spiritro Sr.?
Columbos- Allie Boy, Teddy, or Andy Russo

The Russian Mob is more influential than LCN today.

worldwide yes, in the united states obviously not

[Mason_dixon]

Can’t anyone else just answer the guys question? It wasn’t about any other group it was about the 5 families. I’d like to see other answers...

[Etna]

I'd dare say groups like the Mexican Mafia & Nuestra Familia hold more sway than American LCN in the 21st century. At least as far as street-level crime goes and extortion crimes.

[Tonyd621]

Im a union steelworker. I followed family member(s) into it. If you think certain italian american sub cultures dont have influence over certain aspects of this industry/sector/market then you need to more research.

[Peppermint]

Im a union steelworker. I followed family member(s) into it. If you think certain italian american sub cultures dont have influence over certain aspects of this industry/sector/market then you need to more research.

Yeah, but can these unions today mobilize basically an entire city in such a way that a Presidential convertible motorcade becomes vulnerable to sniper fire?

[Pogo The Clown]

Doubt LCn had that sort influence in Dallas. In 1963 the Dallas family barely existed and had no Union power.


Pogo

[Peppermint]

Doubt LCn had that sort influence in Dallas. In 1963 the Dallas family barely existed and had no Union power.


Pogo

Doubt LCn had that sort influence in Dallas. In 1963 the Dallas family barely existed and had no Union power.


Pogo

The Dallas family weren’t behind his assassination, perhaps they played a supporting role, I don’t know anything about that. As far as my knowledge goes, it was either the Genovese Crime Family, or The Outfit. Not only was his father a bootlegger that worked with the mob during prohibition, and I’m fairly certain that was in Chicago or maybe New York. But also, both families of which in those days, were immensely powerful, almost rivaling the power and influence the Russian mob enjoys today, but I’m preaching to the choir, we all already know that...

Anyway, during his time prior to being President, up to the point, and during. He would travel between various mob clubs with Frank Sinatra, that were all known to be owned by either of those two sects, one of those clubs as I’ve mentioned time and again was my Great Grandfather’s club. This is how Kennedy went about coming up with the brilliant idea to have the CIA recruit mafia hit men to assassinate Castro. They failed, Bay of Pigs failed, the mob loses their lucrative casinos in the Caribbean as a result, soon after Kennedy is whacked. No way an organized crime group could pull off such a high profile hit without being able to complete mobilize a city in a particular fashion. Which should show just how powerful and influential they used to be, and why I don’t consider any existing family as anything of the sorts today. Because they exerted power and influence back in the day, that could easily rival the government itself.

[Pogo The Clown]

Still doubtful. The Geonvese power in this case didn't really extend outside of N/NJ. Ditto for Chicago. Even at their peak LCN never had the skill, infrastructure and organizational discipline to carry out a highly complex, multi team, high profile sniper assassination on a President. Not only carry it out but get away with Scot free with the ID of the killers and organizers remaining secret to this day. Nor did they even have any real motive or inclination to even kill the president.


Pogo

[Peppermint]

Still doubtful. The Geonvese power in this case didn't really extend outside of N/NJ. Ditto for Chicago. Even at their peak LCN never had the skill, infrastructure and organizational discipline to carry out a highly complex, multi team, high profile sniper assassination on a President. Not only carry it out but get away with Scot free with the ID of the killers and organizers remaining secret to this day. Nor did they even have any real motive or inclination to even kill the president.


Pogo

Obviously it’s all speculation, and circumstantial, quite like what really happened on 9/11. But if the theory holds any water, their motive would have been due to Kennedy’s botched disposal of Castro, the mob involved with the gambling industry lost all their lucrative casinos in the Caribbean, that they were building to rival that of which in Las Vegas. Cuba was a massive money tree as far as gambling is concerned for the mob, and Castro was a massive threat to that. Likely why the CIA wanted to use hit men to assassinate Castro in the first place, knowing they have everything to gain but likely could be used as the scapegoat to place the blame upon. Obviously what ended up happening is history, but that is the first, and most likely motive for wanting to assassinate Kennedy. Let’s also not forget, Kennedy also presented a Direct threat against unions themselves, and that is why Jimmy Hoffa hated Kennedy and his brother, can’t imagine it would be too difficult to coerce the unions that were responsible for organizing the parade, that represents the city workers responsible for hosting that parade, for that very reason. The other motive, is merely money. Who’s to say similar to how the FSB covers for the actions of the Solntsevskaya Bratva today, the CIA didn’t cover for the Italian mob then? It’s not illogical to think the two colluded with each other, and Lee Harvey was the scapegoat. If Kennedy was associated with the mob, no reason to think his Vice President, Johnson wasn’t, and Johnson had everything to gain by replacing Kennedy. Such as the lucrative Vietnam War, that Kennedy was trying to prevent escalating. Not to mention, the mob’s dealings with the Golden Triangle and heroin trade, which would have been greatly disrupted if the Vietnam war was to abruptly end. Escalation of that war was absolutely in the favor of the mob, as much as it was in the favor of the military industrial complex.

Regardless of the motive, the clear benefactor of Kennedy being scrubbed from office, has always been the mob more than anybody else possibly involved in that historical event. His brother, wanting to carry on his legacy, was assassinated under the same circumstances, and the mob again, had everything to gain from his death as well. The evidence is speculative and circumstantial, but not illogical.

Even if the mob had nothing to do with it, the fact that they been linked, and are still being linked to those assassinations just goes to show how powerful and influential they used to be compared to how they are now. Which are just ghosts of their former selves. Which was my entire point of bringing up that theory in the first place.

[Pogo The Clown]

The Cuban casinos were only a tiny drop in the profits of the national LCN and its loss only a affected a few select individuals who were already rich. Besides killing Kennedy doesn't get them those casinos back. If they don't kill prosecutors, judges, cops or FBI agents who go after them and their businesses why would they go after the Preident?


Pogo

[Peppermint]

The Cuban casinos were only a tiny drop in the profits of the national LCN and its loss only a affected a few select individuals who were already rich. Besides killing Kennedy doesn't get them those casinos back. If they don't kill prosecutors, judges, cops or FBI agents who go after them and their businesses why would they go after the Preident?


Pogo

The first motive I explained, is only the most likely because it’s the easiest to explain. But the casinos in Cuba were the least of their problems when it comes to Kennedy. There is also his threat to the unions, and his draw backs in Vietnam which further draw backs would have distrusted their Heroin trade, specifically that of which in New York. After his death, the war escalated significantly, and so did the expansion of the heroin trade. Which now that I think about it, goes hand and hand with the second motive I presented of Government collusion. There is also perhaps reasons involving his father’s mob debts from his bootlegging days, but that is an awful lot of effort for a debt like 40 years prior. I would have just let it go.

There was much more to lose with a successful Kennedy administration, than there was to lose when just a handful of individuals are prosecuted. Clearly all those investigations, and federal indictments did little to put an end to organized crime and the mob’s inner workings in things like unions. Corporations I feel like are responsible for putting an end to all that, and rendering the mob to the weakened state they’re in now. But if Kennedy lived out his Presidency, and he was able to fulfill his desired agenda, the mob would have been put to an end a long time ago.

Either way, I rather not dwell further into it and take away from the thread, I didn’t bring this theory up to have a debate about it. It’s all speculation, based on circumstance, and probably entirely coincidental. I’m not presenting any of it as matter of fact. No matter the possible correlations it’s still just another conspiracy theory. I only brought it up to make the point of how powerful and influential they used to be compared to now, that is serious indication that you’re feared; if you been for decades speculated to have been behind the assassination of a U.S President. No one today would think the mob is behind a political assassination, at least in America. No boss today, in this country, has the kind of swing to pull something like that off now if they did then. Just another reason why I say, I would hardly consider an individual member as powerful or influential at all, let alone the respective family they belong to. Of course if I said this to their face, they would likely murder me. But that doesn’t matter, because they wouldn’t be able to get away with it like they used to.

[Tonyd621]

Im a union steelworker. I followed family member(s) into it. If you think certain italian american sub cultures dont have influence over certain aspects of this industry/sector/market then you need to more research.

Yeah, but can these unions today mobilize basically an entire city in such a way that a Presidential convertible motorcade becomes vulnerable to sniper fire?

huh? For one, that rabbit hole I am not even going down. More over, when whoever titled this topic did not envision a debate on the jfk assassination.
But, to yield influence and power you dont need a national takeover. Its about personal connections, credibility, and reputation, etc. You can carve out a small section of a town or half of a zip code. Look when Raymond Patriarcia was boss in rhode island. He had power and influence. Rhode Island is the tiniest of tiniest states.