Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Moscone65]

Manning also says: "i thought it calmed down now, its going to go off now". Its possible that the theories that the whole musitano beef is a local beef with not much to do with the violis or montreal, and that unlike montreal, there are still scores to be settled in hamilton.

[Moscone65]

The address is 7 portofino place

[Wiseguy]

lol, What constitutes a major drug traffickers is one who has direct access to the source countries, has a means of importation and transport, and reliable wholesalers and distributors. Which is what they had... Are you trolling? I'm dead ass serious right now...

If you establish a dominant position in one aspect, you are a major player. Two, you are a king, all three a King of Kings, and if you are a master money launderer, well your a God in the underworld, lol.....

I dont get how a guy as smart as you dont get the simple economics of the trade. Mexico, 10 a kilo. Costa Rica, 10 a kilo. Wholesale in Chicago, L.A., 25 a kilo. Canada, wholesale, 35 a kilo. Europe wholesale, 22,500 a kilo. Direct from Colombia, between 5-6 a kilo. THESE margins put you ahead of anyone that's not the Mexicans, and the Dominicans are mostly confined to the NY area, east coast. They dont travel to Canada from what I know.....

And again, what does NY have to do with the Violis being big in coke? It's almost like you are saying, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, LOL

That the Violis CANT be big in coke bacause the NY families arnt? And if they arnt big in it, there is NO way the Violis are? Is that what you are saying?

Wiseguy, its nothing, NOTHING for a consortium of capos to get together, pool some money, find a broker, and organize a load of coke. Like.... what?

antimafia has repeatedly pointed out to me that there are many coke importers in Canada...

If they were marginalized, it was by their Siciliancousins who cut them out......

I understand the economics of the drug trade. I think you posted the above so you could show everyone else about your understanding of the drug trade. You seem to do that a lot.

Not that theoretical economics of the drug trade necessarily pertains to the subject at hand anyway. I realize you love to go off on tangents and get lost in the ether but the available cases, as well as NY drug reports, don't support the idea that the Buffalo LCN is a major player in the drug trade. You can say "This is about the Violis" or "What do NY drug reports have to do with Hamilton?" but the only reason we're even talking about the Violis is because of the Buffalo connection.

So, if we agree the Buffalo LCN doesn't have a significant footprint in the western NY drug trade, then we look to traditional territory they've had in Canada. How can you talk about how big Violi is when you don't know how big he is. You've identified one other case involving him 20 years before the 2017 bust. And the 2017 bust also involved two NY families. Two cases, one of which also involved New York, shows Violi is a major player?

And nobody said the NY families can't organize a load of cocaine. That's a strawman argument, which I didn't make but you set up, so you could easily knock it down. I'm talking about the relative place in the drug trade of the NY families compared to certain DTOs. But we can at least see ongoing drug cases involving the NY families. How many can we see directly tied to the Buffalo LCN on either side of the border?

[Angelo Santino]

lol, What constitutes a major drug traffickers is one who has direct access to the source countries, has a means of importation and transport, and reliable wholesalers and distributors. Which is what they had... Are you trolling? I'm dead ass serious right now...

If you establish a dominant position in one aspect, you are a major player. Two, you are a king, all three a King of Kings, and if you are a master money launderer, well your a God in the underworld, lol.....

I dont get how a guy as smart as you dont get the simple economics of the trade. Mexico, 10 a kilo. Costa Rica, 10 a kilo. Wholesale in Chicago, L.A., 25 a kilo. Canada, wholesale, 35 a kilo. Europe wholesale, 22,500 a kilo. Direct from Colombia, between 5-6 a kilo. THESE margins put you ahead of anyone that's not the Mexicans, and the Dominicans are mostly confined to the NY area, east coast. They dont travel to Canada from what I know.....

And again, what does NY have to do with the Violis being big in coke? It's almost like you are saying, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, LOL

That the Violis CANT be big in coke bacause the NY families arnt? And if they arnt big in it, there is NO way the Violis are? Is that what you are saying?

Wiseguy, its nothing, NOTHING for a consortium of capos to get together, pool some money, find a broker, and organize a load of coke. Like.... what?

antimafia has repeatedly pointed out to me that there are many coke importers in Canada...

If they were marginalized, it was by their Siciliancousins who cut them out......

I understand the economics of the drug trade. I think you posted the above so you could show everyone else about your understanding of the drug trade. You seem to do that a lot.

Not that theoretical economics of the drug trade necessarily pertains to the subject at hand anyway. I realize you love to go off on tangents and get lost in the ether but the available cases, as well as NY drug reports, don't support the idea that the Buffalo LCN is a major player in the drug trade. You can say "This is about the Violis" or "What do NY drug reports have to do with Hamilton?" but the only reason we're even talking about the Violis is because of the Buffalo connection.

So, if we agree the Buffalo LCN doesn't have a significant footprint in the western NY drug trade, then we look to traditional territory they've had in Canada. How can you talk about how big Violi is when you don't know how big he is. You've identified one other case involving him 20 years before the 2017 bust. And the 2017 bust also involved two NY families. Two cases, one of which also involved New York, shows Violi is a major player?

And nobody said the NY families can't organize a load of cocaine. That's a strawman argument, which I didn't make but you set up, so you could easily knock it down. I'm talking about the relative place in the drug trade of the NY families compared to certain DTOs. But we can at least see ongoing drug cases involving the NY families. How many can we see directly tied to the Buffalo LCN on either side of the border?

First On 7: Corrupt DEA agent took bribes to help Buffalo Mafia friends evade scrutiny, feds say
https://www.wkbw.com/news/i-team/exclus ... y-feds-say

Having a DEA agent on the take is a very big deal. This trial occurred in Buffalo so it was a local matter. The truth is, we really don't know what's going on on the ground in Western NY but with a lack of street activity, drugs would likely be the best bet considering their links to GTA and the Bonannos (one of the most active drug families). The big difference between Buffalo and every other defunct family is it has the benefit of being a border city, unlike other cities like say Pittsburgh or Cleveland who's economic advantages went with the PRC in 1950's and nailed with the 1980's economic depression in the midwest.

[Pogo The Clown]

Actually the Buffalo part is the papers jumping to conclusions. The indictment itself makes no mention of the Buffalo family or LCN. According to the indictment he was taking bribes from lots of different dealers over a 10 year period and some of them he believed were tied to Italian OC. Now it is not unreasonable to assume that some of these dealers may have had ties to Buffalo LCN but it also came out that Bongiovanni was meeting people in Toronto. Like I said earlier I'd wager that the majority of these dealings had more to do with Toronto and independate dealers than Joe Todaro suddenly turning into a big drug lord in Buffalo right under everyone's noses.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Actually the Buffalo part is the papers jumping to conclusions. The indictment itself makes no mention of the Buffalo family or LCN. According to the indictment he was taking bribes from lots of different dealers over a 10 year period and some of them he believed were tied to Italian OC. Now it is not unreasonable to assume that some of these dealers may have had ties to Buffalo LCN but it also came out that Bongiovanni was meeting people in Toronto. Like I said earlier I'd wager that the majority of these dealings had more to do with Toronto and independate dealers than Joe Todaro suddenly turning into a big drug lord in Buffalo right under everyone's noses.


Pogo

Yup. All we can do is judge by what we can actually see and can measure. Yes, a federal agent taking bribes is a big deal. But, as much as some might love to, that's not a license to make the assumption that the Buffalo mob has been moving mountains of drugs across the border the entire time he was taking bribes and there haven't been any cases because of that.

[Moscone65]

Actually the Buffalo part is the papers jumping to conclusions. The indictment itself makes no mention of the Buffalo family or LCN. According to the indictment he was taking bribes from lots of different dealers over a 10 year period and some of them he believed were tied to Italian OC. Now it is not unreasonable to assume that some of these dealers may have had ties to Buffalo LCN but it also came out that Bongiovanni was meeting people in Toronto. Like I said earlier I'd wager that the majority of these dealings had more to do with Toronto and independate dealers than Joe Todaro suddenly turning into a big drug lord in Buffalo right under everyone's noses.


Pogo

Yup. All we can do is judge by what we can actually see and can measure. Yes, a federal agent taking bribes is a big deal. But, as much as some might love to, that's not a license to make the assumption that the Buffalo mob has been moving mountains of drugs across the border the entire time he was taking bribes and there haven't been any cases because of that.

Why bribe a DEA agent if your not trying to move serious weight, or get partners to move serious weight? Do you think they would do such a thing just to move a few dime bags of half ass coke cut with lidocaine?

[Wiseguy]

Why bribe a DEA agent if your not trying to move serious weight, or get partners to move serious weight? Do you think they would do such a thing just to move a few dime bags of half ass coke cut with lidocaine?

Who's "they?"

For almost the entire legnth of this 300+ page thread, you and others have been surviving on theories, what ifs, and possibilities. You're one of those I mentioned above who would love nothing more than to assume the Buffalo mob has turned into the Cali Cartel and got away with moving a mountain of drugs across the border because they bribed a DEA agent.

We can look at the drug cases - or relative lack thereof - before Bongiovanni even joined the DEA, as well as up to and after the 2017 bust, and we don't see much involving the Buffalo mob. And, as Pogo pointed out, we can't assume every trafficker that was paying bribes to him was connected to the Buffalo LCN.

[Lupara]

Its possible that the theories that the whole musitano beef is a local beef with not much to do with the violis or montreal

The Cece Luppino murder makes that unlikely imo.

[Lupara]

Actually the Buffalo part is the papers jumping to conclusions. The indictment itself makes no mention of the Buffalo family or LCN. According to the indictment he was taking bribes from lots of different dealers over a 10 year period and some of them he believed were tied to Italian OC. Now it is not unreasonable to assume that some of these dealers may have had ties to Buffalo LCN but it also came out that Bongiovanni was meeting people in Toronto. Like I said earlier I'd wager that the majority of these dealings had more to do with Toronto and independate dealers than Joe Todaro suddenly turning into a big drug lord in Buffalo right under everyone's noses.


Pogo

Violi was meeting 'people' in Florida. Rizzuto was meeting people in Toronto too. Turns out that the people they met were members of LCN families and they chose a safe spot to meet. That this agent met 'people' in Toronto does not indicate that these were people from Toronto. Let's say he was on the take of IOC individuals in Buffalo/Hamilton. Choosing Toronto to meet makes sense.

We'll find out sooner or later the specifics of this case, so there's no point arguing about it.

[Moscone65]

I was right, GB that Paul manning posted stood for Giorgio Barresi, a real estate agent in the stoney creek area. Previously associated with Musitano and linked to them in project Scoppa

[NickleCity]

^^^^ https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9873 ... -his-home/

[CabriniGreen]

lol, What constitutes a major drug traffickers is one who has direct access to the source countries, has a means of importation and transport, and reliable wholesalers and distributors. Which is what they had... Are you trolling? I'm dead ass serious right now...

If you establish a dominant position in one aspect, you are a major player. Two, you are a king, all three a King of Kings, and if you are a master money launderer, well your a God in the underworld, lol.....

I dont get how a guy as smart as you dont get the simple economics of the trade. Mexico, 10 a kilo. Costa Rica, 10 a kilo. Wholesale in Chicago, L.A., 25 a kilo. Canada, wholesale, 35 a kilo. Europe wholesale, 22,500 a kilo. Direct from Colombia, between 5-6 a kilo. THESE margins put you ahead of anyone that's not the Mexicans, and the Dominicans are mostly confined to the NY area, east coast. They dont travel to Canada from what I know.....

And again, what does NY have to do with the Violis being big in coke? It's almost like you are saying, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, LOL

That the Violis CANT be big in coke bacause the NY families arnt? And if they arnt big in it, there is NO way the Violis are? Is that what you are saying?

Wiseguy, its nothing, NOTHING for a consortium of capos to get together, pool some money, find a broker, and organize a load of coke. Like.... what?

antimafia has repeatedly pointed out to me that there are many coke importers in Canada...

If they were marginalized, it was by their Siciliancousins who cut them out......

I understand the economics of the drug trade. I think you posted the above so you could show everyone else about your understanding of the drug trade. You seem to do that a lot.

Not that theoretical economics of the drug trade necessarily pertains to the subject at hand anyway. I realize you love to go off on tangents and get lost in the ether but the available cases, as well as NY drug reports, don't support the idea that the Buffalo LCN is a major player in the drug trade. You can say "This is about the Violis" or "What do NY drug reports have to do with Hamilton?" but the only reason we're even talking about the Violis is because of the Buffalo connection.

So, if we agree the Buffalo LCN doesn't have a significant footprint in the western NY drug trade, then we look to traditional territory they've had in Canada. How can you talk about how big Violi is when you don't know how big he is. You've identified one other case involving him 20 years before the 2017 bust. And the 2017 bust also involved two NY families. Two cases, one of which also involved New York, shows Violi is a major player?

And nobody said the NY families can't organize a load of cocaine. That's a strawman argument, which I didn't make but you set up, so you could easily knock it down. I'm talking about the relative place in the drug trade of the NY families compared to certain DTOs. But we can at least see ongoing drug cases involving the NY families. How many can we see directly tied to the Buffalo LCN on either side of the border?

Okay, first of all, I would say one NY family were Involved in the 2017 bust, Bonnanos, The drug part? Semplice was a Gambino , busted with Ragusa, an enforcer.. that was loansharking primarily...


Are you saying the Gambinos were the brokers(?), cause they didnt have anything to do with the Violis. That was a separate investigation that shared Morena as an informant.

Just tell me this, how did Semplice connect to the Violis? Are you trying to say the Gambinos were the drug link? Because the Carfana indictment would seem to contradict this....

That's you using the Gambino portion of the indictment to downplay the Violis role... even as you will always argue the 5 families are marginalized in the trade, it's really confusing.....

And they taped Guiseppe Violi saying he introduced crack to Hamilton, this was in the 90s....

The Gambinos in Otremens was Semplice. Ragusa? Zummo and his cousin, Russo on conspiracy. These were the Bonnanos, along with Morena...

[CabriniGreen]

When you say, " Nobody said NY cant organize a load..."

Then what is all the marginalized talk? Like HOW are they marginalized? Money to buy? The mafia isnt that broke. It would be the connections, right? American mobsters dodnt just up and go to Colombia, right? But they go to Costta Rica for their gambling ops, everyone vacations in Mexico.....

I was pretty astounded when the Sicilian mafia reached out to Cali, and he had a load going to Sicily in no time at all....

Just let me get this straight, if not trafficking in a lot of drugs, what e exactly do YOU think the Violis have been doing all this time? You got me genuinely intrigued ...

Why are they sought out first by Montagna, then Zummo, why do they carry such clout? What's their underworld specialty if not narcotics?

I dont even know why I'm engaging, I really believe you just enjoy trolling, lol

But seriously, forget about the Buffalo part, because they just got made 5 years ago. What do you think they were doing for the other 20 years if not trafficking?

[CabriniGreen]

Also, I didnt post all that about the coke just to be long winded, you seem to think that a direct line to Colombia is some small time shit, or is insignificant, which just baffles me...

Then insinuate, that they didnt do it alone, that they had help from NY. The article I posted plainly said the NY guy, Morena, was going to drive the truck or whatever from B.C., to Hamilton. He was to be in charge of transport, and NOT into NY either.

I havent seen anything to suggest they were financed by NY, or that their contact came through NY.

The Bonnanos clearly didnt organized the whole thing, it was the Violis op. I'm still trying to figure out who Porkchop is....

And you cant seriously argue, based on availible evidence that Semplice set up the cocaine op....

I get the Buffalo argument. But now you seem to have extended it to not believing g the Violis were drug guys, which imo is just being catty for mo reason at all.

You like, make your point, then stick your fingers in your ears, close you eyes and go " La Lala la, Lala lala", I cant hear you... lol