Valachi terminology

[B.]

You 3 need to take this BS to the graveyard. Or ignore each other from here on out. Learn to agree to disagree or ignore each other. Don’t ruin a good thread, I will lock it.......Soliai

Please delete those posts and do what you have to do, but I don't deserve to have this thread locked because of other people's issues. Thanks, brother -- I know you're just trying to sort out the bullshit.

--

Based on Valachi's use of caporegima being translated to "lieutenant" for his book, I think we can assume that "Family counsel" in his book is a similarly translated reference to consigliere. We had a discussion a while back where we pretty much came to the conclusion that Alessandro Pandolfo was the consigliere in Valachi's brief references to him, but this would reinforce that even more.

- On the subject of consigliere, Valachi said in an FBI interview that the position varies in function and influence depending on the family and individual holding the position. He said it can be an important position or unimportant. In some cases, he said the consigliere can even be on the Commission and a number of the attendees of Apalachin were consiglieri.

^ Based on the above, Pandolfo seems like he would be a relatively "unimportant" consigliere, especially given that Valachi knew him and his brief descriptions of him suggest he was little more than an underling to Strollo/Genovese. Contrast this with future Genovese consiglieri Mike Miranda, Bobby Manna, and Jimmy Ida, all of who have been described as immensely influential not only within the family but with other families as well. Several CIs and CWs (including Cafaro, D'Arco, and DiLeonardo) have claimed the consigliere is arguably the most powerful position in the family. One reason for this is no doubt because it's the only high-ranking position that is traditionally not appointed by the boss and is elected separately by the membership.

It's interesting too that the term consigliere was never really Americanized unlike every other position. We all know it means "counselor", but that is rarely if ever used within the organization or in the public. Again, part of it might be the popularity of the Godfather -- that movie gave a lot of attention to the term consigliere and Tom Hagen is an iconic character. The term consigliere is a part of pop culture.

[Stroccos]

Anti ,no was not common term, was started is the late 70's by a small group of younger non made guys at the time..good question, surprised someone on here heard it before

Interesting about the orgin of the term , I knew it was for slang someone straightened out , But I am NOT surprised you have heard of it ,
I was asking because I wondering if you had heard of it as you seem to be pretty plugged in nyc . as I never seen it used in any where before and wasn't really sure if it was something used widely

[bronx]

im an older guy ,so you hear older terms, i would like be younger and not know the term!

[Villain]

im an older guy ,so you hear older terms, i would like be younger and not know the term!

[scagghiuni]

it was known as 'society of men of honour' but yeah it was basically nameless although in sicily it was called in several ways, the sect before 1860, the mafia after, the stuppagghieri, sturmi fitusi etc.

"Sturmi fitusi"? Never heard of that one. Do you have a source for this name?

scurmi fitusi was the name of the monreale cosca that fought against stuppagghieri in 1870s

Scurmi fitusi was an insult against the Giardinieri meaning "rotten mackerels." Scombri marci in modern Italian. It wasn't the name members used themselves.

yes i know, i was talking of names used by outsiders to call the organization (the sect, the mafia, stuppagghieri etc.)

[Antiliar]

yes i know, i was talking of names used by outsiders to call the organization (the sect, the mafia, stuppagghieri etc.)

Gotcha

[B.]

Along the lines of informal names for the organization:

- All of the midwest US families called themselves the "outfit". This was a casual term, though public perception incorrectly believes it to be a unique and semi-formal term for Chicago (which it might have become later, just like "Cosa Nostra"). The Milwaukee member CI (believed to be Augie Maniaci) said that the Milwaukee organization was initially referred to as the "mafia" and over time it became more common to call it the "outfit" but there was no essential difference. It should be noted, too, that most of the midwest families outside of Chicago were almost entirely traditional Sicilian groups, so use of the term also had nothing to do with Chicago becoming less traditional.

- The early Philadelphia family was referred to by both members and outsiders as the "greasers", which to the public became semi-formalized as the "Greaser Gang". It's hard not to think of 1950s teenage greasers when you hear this, but this predated that and was no doubt based on the early membership being mostly Sicilian- and Italian-born (i.e. "greaseballs").

- I don't know what the sources are for other unique "regional" names for specific families, i.e. "the Office" / New England, "Partnership" / Detroit, "Arm" / Buffalo, etc. Given that the name "outfit" was a casual term used by many families in the midwest, I suspect these were casual terms as well, assuming they were used at all within the organization.

^ I haven't seen anyone on the Patriarca or Magaddino tapes refer to their organizations using these terms.

^ The Scarfo regime in Philly referred to the leadership of the family as "the arm" according to Caramandi, but it wasn't a formal name for the group, just a casual way of referring to the admin and captains. I imagine a journalist or author could have ran with that phrase if they wanted, and I suspect that's what was done for these other "unique" names for each organization. It makes for catchy headlines and book hype to give each organization its own unique / formal name.

[Manf]

^ The Scarfo regime in Philly referred to the leadership of the family as "the arm" according to Caramandi, but it wasn't a formal name for the group, just a casual way of referring to the admin and captains. I imagine a journalist or author could have ran with that phrase if they wanted, and I suspect that's what was done for these other "unique" names for each organization. It makes for catchy headlines and book hype to give each organization its own unique / formal name.

I thought it was the elbow.

[MichaelGiovanni]

^ The Scarfo regime in Philly referred to the leadership of the family as "the arm" according to Caramandi, but it wasn't a formal name for the group, just a casual way of referring to the admin and captains. I imagine a journalist or author could have ran with that phrase if they wanted, and I suspect that's what was done for these other "unique" names for each organization. It makes for catchy headlines and book hype to give each organization its own unique / formal name.

I thought it was the elbow.

According to Leonetti that’s what they called their shakedowns and extortions. Another term for strong arming someone.

[B.]

^ The Scarfo regime in Philly referred to the leadership of the family as "the arm" according to Caramandi, but it wasn't a formal name for the group, just a casual way of referring to the admin and captains. I imagine a journalist or author could have ran with that phrase if they wanted, and I suspect that's what was done for these other "unique" names for each organization. It makes for catchy headlines and book hype to give each organization its own unique / formal name.

I thought it was the elbow.

Elbow, arm, wrist, finger... you're right. That's what I meant.

[Manf]

Fair enough

[chin_gigante]

I don't think the Elbow referred specifically to the captains and admin but rather those who earned from the street tax shakedowns. I don't think Santo Idone, Alfred Iezzi, Ralph Napoli, Pasquale Martirano or Nicholas Piccolo ever got a share of the elbow

[B.]

Fair enough

Didn't mean to sound flippant or anything, man -- was just trying to be funny. I appreciate the correction.

I don't think the Elbow referred specifically to the captains and admin but rather those who earned from the street tax shakedowns. I don't think Santo Idone, Alfred Iezzi, Ralph Napoli, Pasquale Martirano or Nicholas Piccolo ever got a share of the elbow

Yeah, you're right. The rest of those guys are "the shoulder." The reason I brought it up was to point out that someone could take that info from Caramandi and treat it like a "formal" name for the Scarfo regime, which seems to be how some of these media names were invented. Sort of like Joe Massino becoming "the ear" because he allegedly told members to point to their ear. With mafia media lore, there is a tendency to take everything they say and treat it like it's formal. For example, in Philadelphia the term they use for captain is "big goose".

[CornerBoy]

the godfather movie used capo regime term i guess even americanized guys adopted it..americanized guys introduce guys as skipper or captain..from what i understand .hope that helps

Bronx you ever heard the term stram used ?

Ive definitely heard ppl say he was/is "strommed" meaning made