Pogo's 2020 NYC Membership Numbers

[Bklyn21]

I wondered the same thing B. For Philly and also the other families . If a member cooperates and is still alive and still considered a member and part of the family his slot most of the time cannot be filled until he is declared dead and then that slot can be filled and someone is inducted to replace that Cooperating member

[Pogo The Clown]

Sal Vtiale testified that the families were not allowed to replace informant members until they died.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Who was it who said the families still considered members who flipped an cooperated were still members until they died naturally or were killed ? I know over the years a few members including high ranking figures , Bosses and others have stated this . Can't remember exactly who but it was stated . Maybe Dileonardo , Vitals , Massino , D'arco ? Or others ? But I remember reading this , Maybe in testimony ? But I could never understand this point of view that an inducted member waa still a member until death whether they cooperated or not. Maybe someone knows who I'm talking about ? Any Info ? Great Post guys !!!

I think you may be talking about families are not allowed to replace guys who've flipped until they die. They're obviously not going to still recognize a defector. And they're certainly not included in FBI membership estimates.

[Bklyn21]

Who was it who said the families still considered members who flipped an cooperated were still members until they died naturally or were killed ? I know over the years a few members including high ranking figures , Bosses and others have stated this . Can't remember exactly who but it was stated . Maybe Dileonardo , Vitals , Massino , D'arco ? Or others ? But I remember reading this , Maybe in testimony ? But I could never understand this point of view that an inducted member waa still a member until death whether they cooperated or not. Maybe someone knows who I'm talking about ? Any Info ? Great Post guys !!!

I think you may be talking about families are not allowed to replace guys who've flipped until they die. They're obviously not going to still recognize a defector. And they're certainly not included in FBI membership estimates.

Ok , That's most likely it and not the other way around . I gotta get with the program because I read alot but forget who said what and forget where I read some of this stuff ! Thanks for clarifying

[Hailbritain]

I’m not sure how these estimates can be realistic . Yes pogo’s charts are second to none . But who really knows ?? We don’t know how many making ceremony’s the Genovese or Colombo families have had since anyone flipped . For all anyone really knows the Genovese family , say could have had a making ceremony a month ago and made 5 people ??? Nobody really knows . These estimates realistically could be 20 - 30 members out

[aleksandrored]

Thanks B.

This shows that families in NY still have enough members, I know not everyone is active, but if we consider active members we will have over 500 guys on the streets.

[JohnnyS]

I’m not sure how these estimates can be realistic . Yes pogo’s charts are second to none . But who really knows ?? We don’t know how many making ceremony’s the Genovese or Colombo families have had since anyone flipped . For all anyone really knows the Genovese family , say could have had a making ceremony a month ago and made 5 people ??? Nobody really knows . These estimates realistically could be 20 - 30 members out

This. With members dying and the +2 rule we could be way out with a family.

[roydemeo]

Pogo,do you think that is a Lucchese strategy for have only 85 made men and increase the number of associates?
What I means is: like the outfit,few good made men and many associates.

[Fughedaboutit]

I’m not sure how these estimates can be realistic . Yes pogo’s charts are second to none . But who really knows ?? We don’t know how many making ceremony’s the Genovese or Colombo families have had since anyone flipped . For all anyone really knows the Genovese family , say could have had a making ceremony a month ago and made 5 people ??? Nobody really knows . These estimates realistically could be 20 - 30 members out

Agreed. People take the numbers to heart exactly like the feds get real time alerts to their phones.

[Wiseguy]

Anyone who understands those charts knows that they are not a complete listing of all members. We can only compile lists of names of members made public through news articles, indictments, press releases, reports, etc. Obviously there are other members, most likely known to the feds but some not, that we don't have on those lists. That's why you have to look at the charts, as well as figures from law enforcement.

[Pogo The Clown]

Anyone who understands those charts knows that they are not a complete listing of all members. We can only compile lists of names of members made public through news articles, indictments, press releases, reports, etc. Obviously there are other members, most likely known to the feds but some not, that we don't have on those lists. That's why you have to look at the charts, as well as figures from law enforcement.

All of which B. explained in detail in the very first post in this thread.

Pogo,do you think that is a Lucchese strategy for have only 85 made men and increase the number of associates?
What I means is: like the outfit,few good made men and many associates.

I remember reading that in the old days the Lucchese family deliberately kept their membership a bit lower than they otherwise could have had it. I don't think that practice continued once Amuso took over as he inducted a lot of new members and the family nearly reached their cap limit under his watch.


Pogo

[HairyKnuckles]

Who was it who said the families still considered members who flipped an cooperated were still members until they died naturally or were killed ? I know over the years a few members including high ranking figures , Bosses and others have stated this . Can't remember exactly who but it was stated . Maybe Dileonardo , Vitals , Massino , D'arco ? Or others ? But I remember reading this , Maybe in testimony ? But I could never understand this point of view that an inducted member waa still a member until death whether they cooperated or not. Maybe someone knows who I'm talking about ? Any Info ? Great Post guys !!!

I think you may be talking about families are not allowed to replace guys who've flipped until they die. They're obviously not going to still recognize a defector. And they're certainly not included in FBI membership estimates.

Ok , That's most likely it and not the other way around . I gotta get with the program because I read alot but forget who said what and forget where I read some of this stuff ! Thanks for clarifying

Actually Cicale claimed that CW are still considered as members as long as they are still alive. Which is odd. Not sure if it´s in his book or in the interview with Scarpo.

[thekiduknow]

Has there been any information on whether shelved members are counted? For all intents and purposes they are not recognized by other mafiosi, but learning that CWs are counted I wonder if they shelved members can be replaced?

[Bklyn21]

Who was it who said the families still considered members who flipped an cooperated were still members until they died naturally or were killed ? I know over the years a few members including high ranking figures , Bosses and others have stated this . Can't remember exactly who but it was stated . Maybe Dileonardo , Vitals , Massino , D'arco ? Or others ? But I remember reading this , Maybe in testimony ? But I could never understand this point of view that an inducted member waa still a member until death whether they cooperated or not. Maybe someone knows who I'm talking about ? Any Info ? Great Post guys !!!

I think you may be talking about families are not allowed to replace guys who've flipped until they die. They're obviously not going to still recognize a defector. And they're certainly not included in FBI membership estimates.

Ok , That's most likely it and not the other way around . I gotta get with the program because I read alot but forget who said what and forget where I read some of this stuff ! Thanks for clarifying

Actually Cicale claimed that CW are still considered as members as long as they are still alive. Which is odd. Not sure if it´s in his book or in the interview with Scarpo.

A few pple claimed this as well which is weird

[Wiseguy]

Who was it who said the families still considered members who flipped an cooperated were still members until they died naturally or were killed ? I know over the years a few members including high ranking figures , Bosses and others have stated this . Can't remember exactly who but it was stated . Maybe Dileonardo , Vitals , Massino , D'arco ? Or others ? But I remember reading this , Maybe in testimony ? But I could never understand this point of view that an inducted member waa still a member until death whether they cooperated or not. Maybe someone knows who I'm talking about ? Any Info ? Great Post guys !!!

I think you may be talking about families are not allowed to replace guys who've flipped until they die. They're obviously not going to still recognize a defector. And they're certainly not included in FBI membership estimates.

Ok , That's most likely it and not the other way around . I gotta get with the program because I read alot but forget who said what and forget where I read some of this stuff ! Thanks for clarifying

Actually Cicale claimed that CW are still considered as members as long as they are still alive. Which is odd. Not sure if it´s in his book or in the interview with Scarpo.

And DiLeonardo said he stopped being a member the day he walked into government offices to cooperate. I'm willing to bet Cicale meant that the slot, for lack of a better word, is considered filled until they die.