Where’s Philly’s indictment?

[Fughedaboutit]

Except it is not a matter of opinion vs. opion. It is established fact vs. opinion.


Pogo

Whatever you say...

Fughedaboutit

[dack2001]

Any good researcher or historian knows that history is always changing as new information becomes available and old information is reinterpreted. Not saying we're doing anything profound here but to say this subject is "established fact" is hubris.

Two more points on this and I'll let it rest....Big Ron was a cop for 10 years in Atlantic City. Now Joe Massino's brother in law was a security guard for one year and that was an issue. I'm sure a few other cops have gotten in under the radar but there might be a reason Stanfa never gave Ron a ceremony, because someone would have objected when the list got passed.

If Ron was this made guy or captain like he said he was you would think someone from his crew would have kept things going with the family or have been a legitimate criminal in their own right....instead Ron rats and no one from his crew even gets identified or indicted as even associates of the Philly family, despite him taking down that local cop. That'd be a historical first for a "made guy" rat wearing a wire for two years. He's a made guy and he didn't have ANYONE around him except his "bodyguard" Carmen Perotta, who doesn't even get indicted when he flips????

[Fughedaboutit]

Any good researcher or historian knows that history is always changing as new information becomes available and old information is reinterpreted. Not saying we're doing anything profound here but to say this subject is "established fact" is hubris.

Two more points on this and I'll let it rest....Big Ron was a cop for 10 years in Atlantic City. Now Joe Massino's brother in law was a security guard for one year and that was an issue. I'm sure a few other cops have gotten in under the radar but there might be a reason Stanfa never gave Ron a ceremony, because someone would have objected when the list got passed.

If Ron was this made guy or captain like he said he was you would think someone from his crew would have kept things going with the family or have been a legitimate criminal in their own right....instead Ron rats and no one from his crew even gets identified or indicted as even associates of the Philly family, despite him taking down that local cop. That'd be a historical first for a "made guy" rat wearing a wire for two years. He's a made guy and he didn't have ANYONE around him except his "bodyguard" Carmen Perotta, who doesn't even get indicted when he flips????

I mean it is pretty clear to you or I, but people on this forum that ride or die by FBI info, will never change. No sense in trying to reason with them.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Previte being a cop for 10 years then getting made is, at the least, highly unusual.

I think a case can be ‘made’ that he wasn’t, made. Ahem. No ceremony, long-standing cop, it’s not a long call. And Philly is not like Chicago where being made was something that was just ‘said’ without ‘due process’.

But who the fuck knows eh.

[Confederate]

Previte being a cop for 10 years then getting made is, at the least, highly unusual.

I think a case can be ‘made’ that he wasn’t, made. Ahem. No ceremony, long-standing cop, it’s not a long call. And Philly is not like Chicago where being made was something that was just ‘said’ without ‘due process’.

But who the fuck knows eh.

Was there a LCN rule that a cop could never be made or am I thinking of Italy (Sicily, Calabria & Naples O.C. Clans)?

[gohnjotti]

Previte being a cop for 10 years then getting made is, at the least, highly unusual.

I think a case can be ‘made’ that he wasn’t, made. Ahem. No ceremony, long-standing cop, it’s not a long call. And Philly is not like Chicago where being made was something that was just ‘said’ without ‘due process’.

But who the fuck knows eh.

Was there a LCN rule that a cop could never be made or am I thinking of Italy (Sicily, Calabria & Naples O.C. Clans)?

I’m pretty sure I’ve read that such a rule applies to American LCN too.

[Stroccos]

I'm not quibbling with Rons inclusion on your list. I think arguing Ron was made and even a captain is conventional wisdom considering LE's position and his non-sworn statements on TV interviews and books etc. I'm just saying they all had a stake in bragging his status up but that I think the underworld viewed him differently.

he was considered made man by the underworld. and that's according to former phili capo made man bobby Luisi ., luisis wanted nothing to do with previte for the most part it was merlino who ordered him to work with previte.


Previte was listed as made and a capo by law enforcement way before he outed as a rat .

when previte testited at trial and said he was made guy , why didn't merlinos/ natale camp try to get him on perjury charges ? which in turn would bury his testimony against them ?

[Stroccos]

Any good researcher or historian knows that history is always changing as new information becomes available and old information is reinterpreted. Not saying we're doing anything profound here but to say this subject is "established fact" is hubris.

Two more points on this and I'll let it rest....Big Ron was a cop for 10 years in Atlantic City. Now Joe Massino's brother in law was a security guard for one year and that was an issue. I'm sure a few other cops have gotten in under the radar but there might be a reason Stanfa never gave Ron a ceremony, because someone would have objected when the list got passed.

If Ron was this made guy or captain like he said he was you would think someone from his crew would have kept things going with the family or have been a legitimate criminal in their own right....instead Ron rats and no one from his crew even gets identified or indicted as even associates of the Philly family, despite him taking down that local cop. That'd be a historical first for a "made guy" rat wearing a wire for two years. He's a made guy and he didn't have ANYONE around him except his "bodyguard" Carmen Perotta, who doesn't even get indicted when he flips????

That's pretty common if I recall correctly Sammy the bull didn't rat his old crew out either.
ron refused to rat anyone in his own crew. Fred Aldrich was also a informant who was in rons crew .

i am sure if you get ahold of rons 302's there wold be mentions of his crew. I dont think the feds really cared about them anyway werenet they just a bookmaking and loan shark crew for the most part ?

[Stroccos]

I don't think Previte was ever made. In his book he talks about John Stanfa privately telling him that he's like a made guy now but they would do an official ceremony later. Stanfa got arrested prior to the ceremony occurring. Later on, Merlino tells Bobby Luisi to treat Previte "like he's one of us". Which is a strange phrase if Joey considered Big Ron to be made, considering the many ways Merlino could have simply said that he was a friend of ours instead of "like" a friend of ours". Then you look at the group, Joey, George and company, trying to bet into Ron's book. Say what you want about those guys, but betting into a made guy's book is asking for big trouble. I don't believe they considered Big Ron made, so they didn't give a fuck, regardless of whether he was paying tribute to them.

A lot of things get said when a guy does an interview and a book and his people are selling both (blah, blah Last Gangster, Capo etc.) but looking at it from Cosa Nostra stand point, I don't think he should or would be considered to be a made guy. Doesn't mean he wasn't in charge of Hammonton and threw a lot of money to Merlino. Doesn't mean he didn't say he was made after he ratted, but doesn't make it so.

IF merlino did tell him to treat him like hes one of us , how do you know ? was it on tape ? if it was on tape it was more then likely a phone call. whats merlino spouse to say hes a made guy do the deal. ??

I believe previte said he didn't care about melrino betting into him because the fbi was footing the bill. But if I recall correctly didn't he make a beef with natale about the debt ?

[MikeyRiens11]

I believe he also complained to Natale when some of the boys started getting freebies at the whorehouses he was running.

[Pogo The Clown]

he was considered made man by the underworld. and that's according to former phili capo made man bobby Luisi ., luisis wanted nothing to do with previte for the most part it was merlino who ordered him to work with previte.


Previte was listed as made and a capo by law enforcement way before he outed as a rat .

when previte testited at trial and said he was made guy , why didn't merlinos/ natale camp try to get him on perjury charges ? which in turn would bury his testimony against them ?

Exactly this. LE carried him for years as a member and a Capo. So has GA. But now he is not because some people on the internet don't think he went through what they consider to be the proper ceremony or whatever?


So can I do the same thing? Can I say that Mazzone, Borgesi, Lancelotti and Angelina are not made members because I don't think the proper procedure and ceremony were followed in their cases. After all they were "made" by a Soldier who didn't have permission from his Boss to induct them. That is clearly against the rules and the proper LCN procedures.


What is the difference? After all the only reason we know Mazzone, Borgesi, Lancelotti and Angelina are made members is because LE and GA have told us so. So they were both full of shit about Pevites made status and rank but are correct about the others? Why? Because those guys somehow comport better to what their image of what a "made guy" is?

That's pretty common if I recall correctly Sammy the bull didn't rat his old crew out either.
ron refused to rat anyone in his own crew. Fred Aldrich was also a informant who was in rons crew .

i am sure if you get ahold of rons 302's there wold be mentions of his crew. I dont think the feds really cared about them anyway werenet they just a bookmaking and loan shark crew for the most part ?

Yep. And as I have pointed out there have been Capos without made members or even any real associates under them. It is not so unusual.


Pogo

[dack2001]

Stroccos, I'm not buying what the Feds are selling here. If he had a crew the feds would have swept them up too. Look at Luisi, for crying out loud. He got five or six guys made from his group and 80% gor arrested. Previte can't even get one guy on the radar? C'mon.

And what are Merlino defense attorneys going to say? He wasn't on trial for being a made guy. The tapes existed and he was around Merlino and Natale. He claimed he got down with Stanfa, the guys in Merlino trial were in no position to challenge him from the defense table and it wouldn't have helped them because the tapes were there.

My opinion comes from the quotes on the tapes "treat him "like" he's one of us". Merlino is careful with words and they are important in that context. Also from Previte's story and the way Merlino's guys were taking blatant shots at him through the hookers, coke, bookmaking. Leads me to believe THEY (guys downtown) did not consider him a made guy. That's why he never had a sit-down, never dealt with guys from other families. That's pretty revealing to me. Besides, its what the guys downtown believed anyway about whether he was made and there is plenty precedent for guys under Stanfa who got made were recognized, but not this guy.

[chin_gigante]

The 'like he's one of us comment' could have been in reference to the closeness of the guys, rather than their membership, to get Luisi to go along with working with someone he wasn't sure about. A way of making Luisi feel more important and close to the Philly guys so Merlino could get what he wanted from him

[SonnyBlackstein]

So can I do the same thing? Can I say that Mazzone, Borgesi, Lancelotti and Angelina are not made members...

What is the difference?

None of those guys were ex cops for over ten years.

[Stroccos]

Stroccos, I'm not buying what the Feds are selling here. If he had a crew the feds would have swept them up too. Look at Luisi, for crying out loud. He got five or six guys made from his group and 80% gor arrested. Previte can't even get one guy on the radar? C'mon.

And what are Merlino defense attorneys going to say? He wasn't on trial for being a made guy. The tapes existed and he was around Merlino and Natale. He claimed he got down with Stanfa, the guys in Merlino trial were in no position to challenge him from the defense table and it wouldn't have helped them because the tapes were there.

My opinion comes from the quotes on the tapes "treat him "like" he's one of us". Merlino is careful with words and they are important in that context. Also from Previte's story and the way Merlino's guys were taking blatant shots at him through the hookers, coke, bookmaking. Leads me to believe THEY (guys downtown) did not consider him a made guy. That's why he never had a sit-down, never dealt with guys from other families. That's pretty revealing to me. Besides, its what the guys downtown believed anyway about whether he was made and there is plenty precedent for guys under Stanfa who got made were recognized, but not this guy.

If they catch ron lying under oath they may lose a whole rico case and let alone he would lose him immunity deal , so I have a hard time believing federal proscutors , the fbi , the justice department etc didn't vet his claims.

weather he was actually made by stanfa didn't matter at this point , he was considered made by phili lcn. if only for one reason they wanted his money.

Ron was wearing a wire for the feds. Luisis was not that is why his whole crew went down . Previte REFUSED to tape his own guys !!!!!! Fred Aldrich( in rons crew and stanfas driver ) was also a informant who knew previte was working for the feds. Rons crew was probably small 5-7 guys the feds likely turned a blind eye to get the bigger fish in Phili.
Yeah he was brought back into the fold by natalie and made a captain by him. Yeah merlino and company where scamming ron. he was a mark to them. But everyone was a mark for merlino
Previte had sitdowns with natale over merlinos actions. Again if previte was being told by the feds to do all this crap he would of walked away from merlino. Besides merlino was taking shots at everyone not just Previte other made guys to

Joe ligambi never dealt with guys from other families either and he was made underboss . Hell they wanted to whack him

angelo lutz gave a interview where he talks about ron , I find it funny they were betting into him , JOhnny roast beef lol